Review of the Alpenfohn Black Ridge : Spoiler alert: 120mm noctua fan intake setup with vlp ram is awsome
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Memory Very low profile DDR4 ram
- Thread starter K-philip
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Review of the Alpenfohn Black Ridge : Spoiler alert: 120mm noctua fan intake setup with vlp ram is awsome
Nice to see that someone did the work of testing all the possible combos. I wish this video existed when I first build my PC. That said, I am a little sceptical about the 120 mm fan being worse than the 92 mm one in exhaust, but that might be something to do with his setup (the extra fan at the bottom of the case, perhaps).
For me, with a 120 mm intake vs 120 mm exhaust that I had before, the CPU temperatures are a lot better (5-8 C lower, roughly), as is the noise, but as I have said elsewhere on this forum, it comes at the cost of higher temperatures of basically all other components. Chipset, ram and vrm temperatures are all up about 5 C at high CPU load, and even the GPU in my setup (in the Dr. Zaber Sentry 2.0) is somewhat affected, which was not the case with the CPU fan as exhaust.
In an attempt to stay on topic, that 5 C increase to my ram temperatures is significant, and seems to be causing instability to their otherwise stable overclock. I can run memtest86 all night without any errors, corrected or otherwise, but in high CPU workloads, which cause ram temperatures of up to 55 C, I start seeing WHEA error correction warnings, which I hadn't seen for the 2 months that I had the fan as exhaust. I am still trying to adjust the timings and voltages to fix this, as I would like to keep the CPU temperature benefits of the intake fan orientation. Slackening the subtimings slightly reduced the error rate, and bumping the voltage to 1.4 V has not given me errors in 2 days now, so hopefully that has cured it.
I am still assuming that the SPD info is incorrect (reports Samsung b-die), as Syncro pointed out, but my sticks don't seem to be behaving like the c-die they are supposed to be either. I just hope 1.4 V doesn't kill them.
Interesting. I was thinking about doing an APU build sometime in the future and might be interesting to see if it would be better to keep the ram cooler or the CPU cooler. As the APU is greatly affected by ram I wonder if it would be ideal to have an exhaust setup and sacrifice CPU temps. It might be an interesting test to see benchmarks that are optimized for CPU overclocking and one optimized for ram overclocking.
One thing I didn't properly consider is that I was comparing the two fan orientations with the same fan curve, which is a function of CPU temperature. As the intake orientation keeps this down more effectively, the fan wasn't spinning as fast for the same workloads. I modified my fan curve to make it a bit more aggressive, and while the ram etc. still gets warmer than before, it's only by ~2 °C rather than 5 °C.
I think at this point it's safe to say that the intake orientation is the better option for basically any use case.
Amazon decided to only send me one RAM stick in a box instead of 2 (the 2nd is supposed to arrive tomorrow); at any rate the V-color sticks I ordered from Amazon appear to be SK Hynix JJR rather than CJR.
Hopefully performance is marginally the same. I did say that I was going to test both with and without heatsinks but after thinking about the kind of work that entails I think I'll just stick these heatspreaders on and call it a day and hope that thermals are adequate with them installed.
EDIT: Well this is interesting. The DDR3 VLP modules I bought for their heatsinks use thermal paste instead of thermal pads. I didn't really want to remove the warranty sticker on my ram sticks so I'm not sure what to do at the moment. I don't think I have my thermal pads with me here at my dorm.
Hopefully performance is marginally the same. I did say that I was going to test both with and without heatsinks but after thinking about the kind of work that entails I think I'll just stick these heatspreaders on and call it a day and hope that thermals are adequate with them installed.
EDIT: Well this is interesting. The DDR3 VLP modules I bought for their heatsinks use thermal paste instead of thermal pads. I didn't really want to remove the warranty sticker on my ram sticks so I'm not sure what to do at the moment. I don't think I have my thermal pads with me here at my dorm.
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yeah. i bought a pair about a month ago and i'm just waiting for my ssd to arrive. i'm using my z97 system for the time being so i can't test them yet. i paid 360usd for mine but unfortunately they went up in price and a pair will now cost $416. i'll test them out as soon my build is put together
Ow cool. Curious out it goes. With which mobo/cpu/case/cooler do you plan to use them out of curiosity?
For the price, if it works out I'll have to find another way to get them anyway as I don't live in the US (S. Korea)
i'm using a 9900k/z390pg-itx. might test it out on a 3950x build if i get antsy waiting for ryzen 4000.
I'll be testing out the Supermicro 32GB RAM once my Aorus mobo comes in. Didn't realize that the ROG Strix doesn't support ECC RAM.
I'm glad to see this thread is still thriving! my innodisk kit i posted about it still running strong at 1.4v to this day , only recently did i experience some possible RAM related softlocks or BSOD (isolated to when playing NFS HEAT) so I'll be looking into VLP RAM heatsink results from yall! sorry its been a while since ive been in this thread so I got caught and and saw some interesting posts to reply to:
..BUT, i recently started playing NFS heat, and that game, dear god it is terribly optimized and runs my CPU at a high usage rate and my GPU is pegged at 100% if i downsample, otherwise 80-90% GPU usage at 1080p ultra/mixed settings.. so i recently started getting soft-locks, and i noticed a WHEA error correction BSOD at one point, i wonder if this could be my RAM. I'm going to start testing by adding my RAM temp to my HWinfo64 overlay, so i can track my RAM temps live in case i notice another crash.. although I wonder, SHOULD I LOOSEN my timings to mitigate possible RAM BSODs/softlocks? which ones exactly should i try to loosen .. before testing with an added VLP heatspreader?
So i'm definitely interested in the people in this thread who are going to test heatspreaders, as I'd like to install them on my innodisk kit if it'll help reduce RAM temps. Where would i find the VLP DDR sized thermal pads in addition to those red VLP heatspreaders? do they come with thermal pads? any help would be appreciated, thanks all!
WOW those V-COLOR ARE AMAZING! thanks for your efforts in such a detailed overview.. and thanks for that spreadsheet, wow that is a very cool addition to this thread and should be pinned in the OP.Hey everyone, I've been testing several VLP kits lately on the search for the best option for my system (and out of fascination, they're cool and niche). I figured I should tell this thread about my experience.
My kits:
- Kingston KVR26N19S8L/8 2x8GB 2666C19
- V-Color TE416G26D819V-VKC 2x16GB 2666C19 ECC
- Innodisk M4C0-AGS1TCIK 2x16GB 2666C19 ECC
MB: Asus Rog Strix B450-I Gaming
CPU: R5 3600 (previously an Athlon 200GE)
The Athlon should approximately represent your average Zen1 and Zen+ memory controller and its limits, whereas the 3600 is obviously much more capable in every regard and can unlock the true limits of these ram sticks. The Strix B450-I motherboard is generally regarded one of the best options for memory overclocking on Ryzen and shouldn't be the limiting factor in most cases.
The modules use memory chips by Nanya Technology, specifically their first 8Gbit die revision, A-Die. Nanya only entered the DDR4 market in 2019 and reviews of this die are scarce and hard to find. Everything I've found points towards respectable overclocking headroom, around the 3400-3800MT/s mark. Thats sufficient for Ryzen.
On my 200GE, I ended up getting these up to
There might have been more potential in those timings at lower frequency, but I stuck to 3600MT/s so I didnt really care about that.
On my Ryzen 3600, I curiously had to change the tRCDRD timing to achieve stability
Higher frequencies did boot but threw errors quickly. Not sure if I'd be able to stabilize them.
Overall I'm happy with the results of this memory kit, I ended up recommending my 3600MT/s settings to someone else on Discord and they seemed to work there as well. Can recommend.
These modules uses memory chips by SK Hynix, namely their second latest 8Gbit die revision, commonly referred to as CJR. They're great ICs, can be found on many 3600MHz 16-19-19-39 or 3600MHz 18-22-22-42 retail kits. They may have overclocking headroom between 3600CL16 and >4000MT/s CL18, from what I've seen.
They're also the same ICs as those found on ADATA VLP modules recently, from what I've gathered.
A thing to note here is that -AURMEND- got this same kit with Hynix AFR ICs. Those are inferior dies on average, usually reaching between 3200 and 3600MT/s at most. The amazon seller that I got these from also sells a 2400MT/s module, which according to the low-quality product picture and amazon user reviews contains Samsung dies (B-Die, it seems).
On my 200GE, this kit capped out at around 3333MHz. Their dual rank nature is simply too taxing for weak memory controllers.
On my Ryzen 3600, they got a lot further
I'm highly impressed with these modules, I think I got lucky. The ECC functionality doesnt appear to reduce performance and can be disabled in the BIOS.
These EUDIMMs contain Samsung C-Die chips (detected via their ...C-BCTD code on the ICs). Those are known to be some pretty bad ICs. They have low voltage tolerance and scale negatively with voltage past a certain point. They can be found on recent Corsair v4.32 3200C16 and I believe 3600C19 kits. Some reports suggest they can clock rather high with loose timings, but only at low-ish voltage.
On my 200GE, they achieved no greater than 3266MT/s at lame timings (16-17-10-20-40 IIRC)
On my Ryzen 3600, I did get to push them further
Anything between 3666 and 3800 might be stable, but demand higher voltage for tCL 16 so I stopped. 3800 had issues where it oftentimes didn't boot successfully, which could probably be stabilized with more effort, but its timings are super loose already so I won't bother.
These sticks are the worst performing ones out of the three. Based on this individual experience I wouldn't recommend them in case there are other options available.
Conclusion:
The VLP DDR4 DRAM options on the market right now appear to have respectable potential. Western users are no longer restricted to uncertain purchases from South East Asia, like it used to be until mid 2019. I wouldn't hesistate to pick V-Color modules or Crucial's CT16G4XFD8266 over the Innodisk modules.
- Kingston OC: 3600C16 or 3800C18
- V-Color OC: 3600C16, 3800C16 or 4000C18
- Innodisk OC: 3600C18
I hope this will be helpful to some. I know my testing wasn't perfectly consistent or perfectly thorough (you'd typically want to run an overnight ram test for every setting), but this should be fine in terms of giving some form of indication.
I have also decided to compile this spreadsheet for information about VLP DDR4, with reported overclocks I could find on here, on Reddit and on Discord.
I think I'm gonna sell my Innodisk modules, I'll post a trade thread some time.
Ooh interesting.. I wonder if my inodisk kit would benefit from those heatsinks? my kit runs at 1.4v and at 42c idle, so I could use some heat dissipation. Please post your results when you test your temps and stability!
5.38US $ |2PCS Memory Bank Cooling Fin Aluminum Heat Sink Cooling Vest for DDR / DDR2 / DDR3 / DDR4 Narrow Strip Memory Cooling Chip|Fans & Cooling| - AliExpress
Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.comwww.aliexpress.com
127mm*15mm*3mm according to the manufacturer. They should fit. Most vlp is ~18mm.
Yes please test our the heatspreaders, I'm interested in those results, thank you!
Ok so here's something interesting, you know may kit in the spreadsheet? I've never had any blue screens until recently, i normally play CEMU or other emulators like Dolphin at 4K, very low (sub-50% cpu usage and low GPU usage at sub-40%), so my RAM has never gotten so hot that it's crashed my system..
..BUT, i recently started playing NFS heat, and that game, dear god it is terribly optimized and runs my CPU at a high usage rate and my GPU is pegged at 100% if i downsample, otherwise 80-90% GPU usage at 1080p ultra/mixed settings.. so i recently started getting soft-locks, and i noticed a WHEA error correction BSOD at one point, i wonder if this could be my RAM. I'm going to start testing by adding my RAM temp to my HWinfo64 overlay, so i can track my RAM temps live in case i notice another crash.. although I wonder, SHOULD I LOOSEN my timings to mitigate possible RAM BSODs/softlocks? which ones exactly should i try to loosen .. before testing with an added VLP heatspreader?
So i'm definitely interested in the people in this thread who are going to test heatspreaders, as I'd like to install them on my innodisk kit if it'll help reduce RAM temps. Where would i find the VLP DDR sized thermal pads in addition to those red VLP heatspreaders? do they come with thermal pads? any help would be appreciated, thanks all!
Never bought them, I was planning to, but ended up passing on it since I figured my 120mm fan under the BR would be good enough.
Heads-up: found the same model from a reputable seller on Amazon.com.127mm*15mm*3mm according to the manufacturer. They should fit. Most vlp is ~18mm.5.38US $ |2PCS Memory Bank Cooling Fin Aluminum Heat Sink Cooling Vest for DDR / DDR2 / DDR3 / DDR4 Narrow Strip Memory Cooling Chip|Fans & Cooling| - AliExpress
Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com
According to that listing, it would seem so. I have ordered them, so hopefully I’ll be able to bring you guys some better info on these heatsinks.
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I am not having any luck finding a seller that has the V-Color TE416G26D819V-VKC 2x16GB kit available. I assume the stock seems to have dried up?
If anyone know any sellers that could ship to the US let me know - these look perfect for my move to the blackridge on my 3700X!
If anyone know any sellers that could ship to the US let me know - these look perfect for my move to the blackridge on my 3700X!
The amazon seller still has 2400C17 sticks listed;
Earlier this year it took a couple weeks for them to restock the 2666C19 modules
I contacted Vcolor through Newegg.com for that exact item a week ago. They were in stock a few days ago; I would assume they will restock soon.
I can also confirm that the item on the Newegg listing uses the CJR ICs.
My V-color kit from Amazon came with JJR Hynix modules, and although they aren't quite as good at overclocking I think they're probably within acceptable ranges. On purely auto settings with atrocious timings these modules ran all the way to 4000 Mhz at which point I stopped because there isn't much point on Ryzen 3000; I suspect they could go even higher though, given that they managed those speeds at 1.35V as well.
In fact, these modules would run 3600 CL18 at 1.35V, but in order to get CL16 I needed to raise memory past 1.4V; I don't know quite how much past. Initial testing showed 1.45V stable, and right now I'm running them at 1.43V which has so far held steady in games and benchmarks like CB R20 and P95 Large FFTs. Temps with large FFTs peaked around 63 degrees but the modules under normal use are usually around 40 to 43 degrees. I still haven't tested my VLP server heatsinks although I have them ready when I feel like ripping the warranty stickers off my RAM.
To follow up on my previous post: while waiting the 2 months for my red vlp heatsinks products to arrive (...ugh), I dug up a handful of reviews for them online. The heatsink seems just fine (aluminium is aluminium), but the packaged thermal pads apparently have very little thermal conductivity and actually make your ram run hotter. I would guess it's somewhat akin to thermal tape, as I can't imagine them packaging anything better for that price point.
I therefore opted for alphacool's 11W/mK adhesive thermal pads, somewhat of an overkill, but modmymods sells them for a steal of a price on Newegg.
I would also recommend applying the thermal pads exclusively on the chips, as they are the primary heating components. With judicious application the thin alphacool strips should suffice (I have read that their adhesive is very satisfactory).
I'll keep you guys posted when those heatsinks finally arrive!
interesting.. thanks for the link, those thermal pads are even cheaper from Newegg.com in the US lol. btw if you dont seen ad much thermal conductivity and think 11W/mK is too much, ive used ARCTIC thermal pads at 6W/mK..
side note on my usage of them: on the end of my 1080 mini's heatsink where it made contact with my S4M-C's aluminum wrap-around bezel.. the bezel now gets warm/hot when at full load (card stays below 71c due to my agressive fan curve) the pads/bezel are working very well at transferring and conducting and dissipating the heat, even better than having the old 2D acylic bezel that had a GPU airflow cutout where hot GPU air would exit from.. i'm 1-3c lower on temps all around the temp range now without the cutout, lol.
Note they also have them in RAM size
I look forward to your temp results before i buy those heatsinks and those alphacool thermal pads, heck i may even upgrade my 1080 mini's thermal pad mod.
