Prototype "Universal" fan mounting grid

arturbecker

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Eh I don't know. If anything maybe a metric m3.5 screw? I know you can use those with a 6-32 thread and they hold okay. Depending on your manufacturing methods maybe expand the hole by 0.05 for some tolerance. Would leave a 0.9mm metal gap between holes. Laser cutter can probably do that with reasonable precision.

Personally, I would try a test on a small panel. The screw might go in a little tight and rub the hole down, aluminum is soft

Another concern my friend brought up is the panel heating up during laser cutting and thus having it's structural integrity compromised...
Anyways, I think it's worth a shot, for sure. Probably won't use it immediately though since I want to use normal screws etc.
Thanks for the insight on screw tolerances and it being quite loose on the fan, that's interesting... two levels of offset! screw to panel and screw to fan :p
 

Shatrod

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Another concern my friend brought up is the panel heating up during laser cutting and thus having it's structural integrity compromised...
Anyways, I think it's worth a shot, for sure. Probably won't use it immediately though since I want to use normal screws etc.
Thanks for the insight on screw tolerances and it being quite loose on the fan, that's interesting... two levels of offset! screw to panel and screw to fan :p

That i dont know. Perhaps a water jet can overcome this issue? I recall reading that some aluminum alloys are self-tempering, that is if you heat them up and then leave it alone long enough it will regain its original properties. For cost savings and just testing i would ask someone to laser this out of a 1/8 acrylic panel and just try screwing fans (with rads) to it. If it works out there it should work out in metal too.
 

Thehack

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I respectfully disagree. This is made up for by there being a lot "interconnects" between the holes. One 1mm thin line would be weak yes, but 50 or so of them are absolutely not. If you were to make this out of steel especially there should be no concerns. Its like having a rope, the individual strands are weak but the weave of many is not.

Edit: you can also make up for a lack of strength by having a thicker panel. like 2mm aluminum. This should alleviate strength concerns

1. This goes against design guidelines of using at least 1T material spacing. Most guides I've seen recommend 1.5T to 2T where T is the material thickness. T in this case, would likely be 1.1 mm to 1.6 mm.

2. Secondly, comparing a removal process (punching or lasering cutouts) to combining strands for more tensile strength is kinda silly. The proper analogy in this case is adding bends to sheet metal increases the tensile strength like combining strands to form a rope.

3. Finally, if you increase the thickness, you actually have to increase the distance between holes. Thicker materials requires more force to punch out materials, which causes more deformities if you don't leave enough materials. If you're lasering, increasing thickness makes the cut more difficult, as the laser must go slower. At that point, you cause more deformities and lose edge quality. The more holes you have, the less likely you will use laser, as you will incur a lot of machine time cost.


@arturbecker seems we've covered all the possibly hole spacings. They're all just X integers of 20/X. The 5mm will get you a symmetrical layout but is not feasible to manufacture.

The best is go with 6.56 mm slot/oblogs/rectangles in my opinion.

Concerning design-wise, the areas where it would be beneficial to have a symmetrical look, you don't want to mount your components. Having visible screws break up a clean pattern/feature. Where you should mount them, I think being symmetrical doesn't really matter as it would not be visible. You can get away with adding S bends for strength and having large cutout for better airflow. Here is how fractal does it for example.

 
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Shatrod

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1. This goes against design guidelines of using at least 1T material spacing. Most guides I've seen recommend 1.5T to 2T where T is the material thickness. T in this case, would likely be 1.1 mm to 1.6 mm.

2. Secondly, comparing a removal process (punching or lasering cutouts) to combining strands for more tensile strength is kinda silly. The proper analogy in this case is adding bends to sheet metal increases the tensile strength like combining strands to form a rope.

3. Finally, if you increase the thickness, you actually have to increase the distance between holes. Thicker materials requires more force to punch out materials, which causes more deformities if you don't leave enough materials. If you're lasering, increasing thickness makes the cut more difficult, as the laser must go slower. At that point, you cause more deformities and lose edge quality. The more holes you have, the less likely you will use laser, as you will incur a lot of machine time cost.


@arturbecker seems we've covered all the possibly hole spacings. They're all just X integers of 20/X. The 5mm will get you a symmetrical layout but is not feasible to manufacture.

The best is go with 6.56 mm slot/oblogs/rectangles in my opinion.

Concerning design-wise, the areas where it would be beneficial to have a symmetrical look, you don't want to mount your components. Having visible screws break up a clean pattern/feature. Where you should mount them, I think being symmetrical doesn't really matter as it would not be visible. You can get away with adding S bends for strength and having large cutout for better airflow. Here is how fractal does it for example.

I don't know enough about manufacturing so I will defer to your expertise. It does sound like it is likely to be not manufacturable.
 

arturbecker

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Oh yeah, at our somewhat philosohical dsscent into fan hole spacing I didn't quite think about the appearance of the screws. I guess here's a point where custom hardware (i.e. black pan head allen screws) is an option or maybe even a must :p

I will try to prototype a version of the slotted design since it suits my immediate requisites well now. However I came up with about 11~12mm slot length, care to explain why you'd think 6.56 would be ideal? Or is that horizontal pitch?
 

Thehack

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Oh yeah, at our somewhat philosohical dsscent into fan hole spacing I didn't quite think about the appearance of the screws. I guess here's a point where custom hardware (i.e. black pan head allen screws) is an option or maybe even a must :p

I will try to prototype a version of the slotted design since it suits my immediate requisites well now. However I came up with about 11~12mm slot length, care to explain why you'd think 6.56 would be ideal? Or is that horizontal pitch?

6.56 or around thereof, for the pitch.

The length, I recommend you do some calculation and try to achieve around 50% ventilation ratio. The longer the slots, the less restrictive it is for airflow. It's a balance of visual, strength, and airflow that you decide to go for.
 
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Shrink Ray Wielder
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2. Stainless is known for corrosion resistance. If you need more strength, use regular steel or increase the thickness of aluminum.

Look at the overall shape, there is no strength to it unless you intend to use some thicker sheet metal. Sheet metal by itself with no bends is actually pretty flexible.

Probably I still cannot convince you about my idea, but here you go: 1.80mm AlMg3, no magic involved

Also did a quick FEM with DC01 and SUS304. With steel you could decrease the thickness to 0.80~1.00mm and with stainless steel down to 0.60~0.80mm without any issues.

 
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Shrink Ray Wielder
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For cost savings and just testing i would ask someone to laser this out of a 1/8 acrylic panel and just try screwing fans (with rads) to it. If it works out there it should work out in metal too.

That would be the way I would do it. A laser cut acrylic prototype is the cheapest way to test the idea. If all works out you can think about the metal version. But I would stay away from laser cutting aluminum. It's a mess. Watercutting would work OK for Aluminum if you can live with some larger tolerances. If you go for stainless or normal steel, you'll also be fine with laser cutting.
 
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arturbecker

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Probably I still cannot convince you about my idea, but here you go: 1.80mm AlMg3, no magic involved

Also did a quick FEM with DC01 and SUS304. With steel you could decrease the thickness to 0.80~1.00mm and with stainless steel down to 0.60~0.80mm without any issues.


I appreciate the empiricism. I'm awful at Mechanics, what would happen if there was a force parallel to the support profiles (i.e. going into the image), and the brackets were screwed down? Would the fan move at all?
 

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I appreciate the empiricism. I'm awful at Mechanics, what would happen if there was a force parallel to the support profiles (i.e. going into the image), and the brackets were screwed down? Would the fan move at all?

Of course everything can be moved/bend/displaced/destroyed if you just use enough force. ;)
But back to the actual application: Considering that you´ll probably need some screws with a big flat head (e.g. "mushroom head screw") or washers to fix the bracket/fan assembly on a vented panel, you wont be able to move this unless you really wanted to.
 
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arturbecker

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Just got a prototype of one of the slotted versions back!
There's just something about how structurally sound it looks in (absolutely overkill) 2mm thick a36 steel:


Slots (in mm) = (width = 5.5, height = 12.5, pitch_X = 7, pitch_Y = 14)

Next step is trying on a more viable material e.g. 2mm aluminum.
 
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Shrink Ray Wielder
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Next step is trying on a more viable material e.g. 2mm aluminum.

Looks good. Laser cut I guess?

I think 1.5mm aluminum would be totally fine, should be rigid enough. Or try 1mm steel or stainless and paint it in your favorite color. Steel or stainless is better suited for laser cutting.
 

arturbecker

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Thanks! As far as I understand it was made out of whatever scrap metal there was at hand on my friends shop :p
I checked back on the design file and I think a better formulation would be:

Slots (in mm) = (width = 5.058, height = 12.5, pitch_X = 6.558, pitch_Y = 14)

That should be a bit more "tolerant" on the fan screws (despite the reduced diameter)
 
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