Power Supply Tiny 200w AC-DC power supply

1461748123

Master of Cramming
Original poster
Nov 5, 2016
489
1,068
Found this gem when surfing around:

CLP0212 Open Frame Power Supply

It is tiny! At 50.8 mm x 101.6 mm x 36.1 mm it delivers 200w. The best part is, multiple of the same module can run in parallel!
It only outputs 12v, but with a small plug n play dc-atx module that shouldn't be a big problem.

Brickless 8700k+1080 S4M possible? :p

(And it is dirt cheap, one of the source gives me a quote at 10$/piece)
 

Kmpkt

Innovation through Miniaturization
KMPKT
Feb 1, 2016
3,382
5,935
Gonna one up you here. Check out this bad boy!

https://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bel-Power-Solutions/ABC180-1024L?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsPs3th5F8koBnb4TL50RU6kQupDvxCO7z/064qyx5xTw==

The same 101.6mm long and 50.8mm wide but a mere 19mm tall and is able to output 180W. I've actually bought one of these and sent it to my EEng. I the hopes I can develop something a bit wider (57mm) a bit longer (~110mm), the same height (19mm) with a 200W passive output.


Working on it!
https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/orangulan-deux-2-bricks-1-case.6746/
 

W1NN1NG

King of Cable Management
Jan 19, 2017
616
532
Gonna one up you here. Check out this bad boy!

https://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bel-Power-Solutions/ABC180-1024L?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsPs3th5F8koBnb4TL50RU6kQupDvxCO7z/064qyx5xTw==

The same 101.6mm long and 50.8mm wide but a mere 19mm tall and is able to output 180W. I've actually bought one of these and sent it to my EEng. I the hopes I can develop something a bit wider (57mm) a bit longer (~110mm), the same height (19mm) with a 200W passive output.



Working on it!
https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/orangulan-deux-2-bricks-1-case.6746/
Yeah but that's 150 bucks a piece! Vs 10!
 
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1461748123

Master of Cramming
Original poster
Nov 5, 2016
489
1,068
Where do you see a PSU for 10 bucks?

I quess he is referencing to the quote 0f $10/p that @1461748123 got on the model he posted.

I found someone selling them on taobao.com, it's out of stock now so its accepting back orders now.
The exact model number is CLP0212FPEX5Z03A
My friend got 4 of them and the seller agree on a price of 50 RMB per unit, which is about $7.5! Insane!
 
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Untero

Average Stuffer
Dec 14, 2017
83
80
Simply amazing. That looks like an almost (higher voltage would be nice) perfect solution for an S4M since it supports Load Sharing out of the box. How freaking cool is that? I gonna pre-order a bunch of these from taobao!
I've found out CLP0212FPEX5Z03A is difficult to find at the moment since It got replaced with identical CLP0212FPEX5Z03C which costs above 100 USD...
But anyways, thanks for sharing, @1461748123 I definitely would crop few pieces from tao.
I think @Kmpkt DC-DC solutions would be perfect to finish the equation.

P.S. There's a seller on aliexpress which sells unit more expensive than on taobao and has no feedback or even any orders at all, but that's also something could be considered.
 

1461748123

Master of Cramming
Original poster
Nov 5, 2016
489
1,068
Simply amazing. That looks like an almost (higher voltage would be nice) perfect solution for an S4M since it supports Load Sharing out of the box. How freaking cool is that? I gonna pre-order a bunch of these from taobao!
I've found out CLP0212FPEX5Z03A is difficult to find at the moment since It got replaced with identical CLP0212FPEX5Z03C which costs above 100 USD...
But anyways, thanks for sharing, @1461748123 I definitely would crop few pieces from tao.
I think @Kmpkt DC-DC solutions would be perfect to finish the equation.

P.S. There's a seller on aliexpress which sells unit more expensive than on taobao and has no feedback or even any orders at all, but that's also something could be considered.
I should probably post the link to it: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...065089313&_u=j1n1alt78fc3&qq-pf-to=pcqq.group
There are at least 500+ reviews on this product, and most of them are positive, so I think it is pretty trustworthy.
 
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Untero

Average Stuffer
Dec 14, 2017
83
80
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23571113

Chassis Packer
Feb 27, 2018
16
16
I'm not very knowledgable with electronics but if I understand this thread correctly, I'm suprised this thread hasn't attracted more attention in this forum.

AC-DC power supplies with roughly the outline of a credit card outputting 180-200W?
So if somebody familiar with electronics prepares them for users like me, all I need for all office & HTPC, most mid range and some high end systems is one of these and a DC-ATX adapter from the likes of G-Unique or HDPlex?
And I could potentially have it for the same price or less than normally asked for the combination of an ugly & comparably huge AC-DC power brick and a DC-ATX adapter from the same vendors?
 
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Kmpkt

Innovation through Miniaturization
KMPKT
Feb 1, 2016
3,382
5,935
So if somebody familiar with electronics prepares them for users like me, all I need for all office & HTPC, most mid range and some high end systems is one of these and a DC-ATX adapter from the likes of G-Unique or HDPlex?

This is the rub on units like these. As an example, lets say I make an aluminum or 3D printable enclosure for this PSU and I sell the complete unit to you. Now lets say because my enclosure design is poor, the power supply proceeds to overheat and burn your house down. The liability on this is massive and anyone who would bring a PSU like this to market under such a scenario would have to be a fool. The obvious workaround to this scenario would be to have the enclosure properly engineered and the entire unit re-certified inside the enclosure I'd designed before selling it. Once certified safe, my liability would be vastly lower were an issue to occur provided I could prove the complete unit was certified to operate within specification.

The problem with the certification process for AC-DC units in particular is that it is tremendously expensive. Speaking from experience, certifying the Dynamo 360 cost me about 1200 USD. The price of doing this for an AC-DC unit is many multiples higher because of the nature of the conversion taking place (I've heard figures into the tens of thousands are typical). Obviously this means that without a large market for this kind of supply, you're not going to see a product like this come to market due to the fact that amortizing thousands of dollars in certification costs over a relatively small number of power supplies is a massive financial risk.

AC-DC power supplies with roughly the outline of a credit card outputting 180-200W?

I think you're unfortunately mistaken as to how the power rating system for power supplies like these work. If you look at the brick above, it is not rated for 200W when cooling via convection like the HDPlex 160W or 300W are. If you dig a bit deeper into the specification you can see that the supply downrates itself based on the ambient temperature. At 25C the output drops to 170W and continues to do so until it reaches an ambient temperature of 55C at which point it downrates to a mere 100W. The only way to have this unit operate consistently at 200W in a real world scenario would be to provide active cooling to the units.

Based on my research, other units of comparable size and wattage seem to require between 10 and 15 CFM of airflow to operate at maximum rated capacity (the spec sheet on this unit is pretty confusing as to exactly what fan specification would be required to run it at 200W continuously). While 10-15 CFM might not seem like a lot, you're not going to get this kind of airflow at an acceptable noise level under 60mm x 25mm. As an example, Noctua's 40mm x 20mm fan which you might think would be suitable for this application moves a grand total of 5.5 CFM.

https://noctua.at/en/products/fan/nf-a4x20-pwm

To put it into perspective, with passive cooling the HDPlex 300W AC-DC would likely move closer to 400W of power while the HDPlex 160W AC-DC would likely move closer to 250W. At this time the only really viable work around to these heat issues is to move to a higher efficiency power conversion process like that provided by GaN (Gallium Nitride) based solutions. As of right now, this technology is too expensive to be practically applicable to our community. About a year and a half ago I priced out a 250W unit in roughly this form factor from Transphorm USA and they wanted about 550 USD for it :(

Personally I think the best bet going forward is to engineer a supply on a load-sharing based platform, but thinner. As an example I'd put forth the Bel Power 180W unit here:

https://www.digikey.ca/en/product-h...solutions/180-w-abc-mbc-series-power-supplies

My thought is that by making the unit a hair wider and longer you could likely use cheaper parallelized components to drive the cost down significantly (think 4.50" x 2.25" x 0.75"). The benefit of the lower height would be that there would be ample room to add a very capable heat sinking mechanism without making the unit too large.
 
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23571113

Chassis Packer
Feb 27, 2018
16
16
Dear Kmpkt, thanks a lot for one more of your (countless) insightful and well phrased posts, very much appreciated!
Eventhough it slows down my excitment I am glad I could learn something today and I am positive that with this much profound knowledge in this fantastic forum I will eventually find the PSU package that suits my needs.
Wishing you a wonderful weekend!
 
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Soul_Est

SFF Guru
SFFn Staff
Feb 12, 2016
1,536
1,928
I should probably post the link to it: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...065089313&_u=j1n1alt78fc3&qq-pf-to=pcqq.group
There are at least 500+ reviews on this product, and most of them are positive, so I think it is pretty trustworthy.
These look great for the price.

Personally I think the best bet going forward is to engineer a supply on a load-sharing based platform, but thinner. As an example I'd put forth the Bel Power 180W unit here:

https://www.digikey.ca/en/product-h...solutions/180-w-abc-mbc-series-power-supplies

My thought is that by making the unit a hair wider and longer you could likely use cheaper parallelized components to drive the cost down significantly (think 4.50" x 2.25" x 0.75"). The benefit of the lower height would be that there would be ample room to add a very capable heat sinking mechanism without making the unit too large.
Those look great as well but that pricing...
 

Untero

Average Stuffer
Dec 14, 2017
83
80
This is the rub on units like these. As an example, lets say I make an aluminum or 3D printable enclosure for this PSU and I sell the complete unit to you. Now lets say because my enclosure design is poor, the power supply proceeds to overheat and burn your house down. The liability on this is massive and anyone who would bring a PSU like this to market under such a scenario would have to be a fool. The obvious workaround to this scenario would be to have the enclosure properly engineered and the entire unit re-certified inside the enclosure I'd designed before selling it. Once certified safe, my liability would be vastly lower were an issue to occur provided I could prove the complete unit was certified to operate within specification.

The problem with the certification process for AC-DC units in particular is that it is tremendously expensive. Speaking from experience, certifying the Dynamo 360 cost me about 1200 USD. The price of doing this for an AC-DC unit is many multiples higher because of the nature of the conversion taking place (I've heard figures into the tens of thousands are typical). Obviously this means that without a large market for this kind of supply, you're not going to see a product like this come to market due to the fact that amortizing thousands of dollars in certification costs over a relatively small number of power supplies is a massive financial risk.



I think you're unfortunately mistaken as to how the power rating system for power supplies like these work. If you look at the brick above, it is not rated for 200W when cooling via convection like the HDPlex 160W or 300W are. If you dig a bit deeper into the specification you can see that the supply downrates itself based on the ambient temperature. At 25C the output drops to 170W and continues to do so until it reaches an ambient temperature of 55C at which point it downrates to a mere 100W. The only way to have this unit operate consistently at 200W in a real world scenario would be to provide active cooling to the units.

Based on my research, other units of comparable size and wattage seem to require between 10 and 15 CFM of airflow to operate at maximum rated capacity (the spec sheet on this unit is pretty confusing as to exactly what fan specification would be required to run it at 200W continuously). While 10-15 CFM might not seem like a lot, you're not going to get this kind of airflow at an acceptable noise level under 60mm x 25mm. As an example, Noctua's 40mm x 20mm fan which you might think would be suitable for this application moves a grand total of 5.5 CFM.

https://noctua.at/en/products/fan/nf-a4x20-pwm

To put it into perspective, with passive cooling the HDPlex 300W AC-DC would likely move closer to 400W of power while the HDPlex 160W AC-DC would likely move closer to 250W. At this time the only really viable work around to these heat issues is to move to a higher efficiency power conversion process like that provided by GaN (Gallium Nitride) based solutions. As of right now, this technology is too expensive to be practically applicable to our community. About a year and a half ago I priced out a 250W unit in roughly this form factor from Transphorm USA and they wanted about 550 USD for it :(

Personally I think the best bet going forward is to engineer a supply on a load-sharing based platform, but thinner. As an example I'd put forth the Bel Power 180W unit here:

https://www.digikey.ca/en/product-h...solutions/180-w-abc-mbc-series-power-supplies

My thought is that by making the unit a hair wider and longer you could likely use cheaper parallelized components to drive the cost down significantly (think 4.50" x 2.25" x 0.75"). The benefit of the lower height would be that there would be ample room to add a very capable heat sinking mechanism without making the unit too large.

What an amazing read! Thanks for insight, Kmpkt!
As for the Bel 180W brick - did you mean it also has some load-sharing logic, or you were talking about some external load-sharing device (i.e. kmpkt merge)?
 
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