S4 MINI Classic (S4M-C)

[zhl146]

Not off topic at all. I did not do a thorough benchmark to compare the two in performance as I was concerned with power consumption and was going to take what I could get after stability. I should have done those tests, but I'm sure lots of people have benchmarked them. The base model hit my 70FPS at 2160x1200 (VR res) which is all I was looking for.

No idea on the BIOS flashing. I would be interested as well because the SC is easier to find than the base model at the moment.

I can say that in my opinion for the S4 Mini the EVGA SC is not worth it--you need to tune it and it is more expensive. Though the cooler is much nicer. Still, it doesn't make direct contact with the memory modules, so how much BETTER the cooler is anyone's guess. The base model 1060 runs fine and doesn't get too hot in games and performs splendidly and didn't require any tuning, so I am sticking with that for my custom builds from now on.

Those are really interesting results for the SC!

Two things:

1) Do you think it's the Pico that is failing? I thought it was the adaptec brick that was crapping out on me. I was going to replace the pico 160XT with a Z4 not because of the wattage limitations, but for the ability of the Z4 to accept a 19V brick instead of a 12V

2) I ran a 1060 6GB ZOTAC and I noticed that it was A LOT louder than the EVGA SC. I don't have any numbers for you, but it was super noticeable. I think the ZOTAC and the EVGA non SC are the same cooler design, but I haven't tried the non SC EVGA.

Has anyone tried running an SFX PSU into a pico? i don't want a huge bundle of cables hanging out of my machine, just the 12V into the pico.

 

[Josh | NFC]

1) Do you think it's the Pico that is failing? I thought it was the adaptec brick that was crapping out on me. I was going to replace the pico 160XT with a Z4 not because of the wattage limitations, but for the ability of the Z4 to accept a 19V brick instead of a 12V

I don't think its the brick or the Pico, TBH. If it is and you are in America and you cant get a return, I want to buy it from you to do tests because I have never seen a bad one of either. It *could* be that your card is sending a spike through it more than it can handle, but my first finger is not pointed at the Pico. Did you try underclocking it yet? If you just undervolted it then it serves to reason it would be even MORE likely to be unstable.

2) I ran a 1060 6GB ZOTAC and I noticed that it was A LOT louder than the EVGA SC. I don't have any numbers for you, but it was super noticeable. I think the ZOTAC and the EVGA non SC are the same cooler design, but I haven't tried the non SC EVGA.

Great to know, I will look elsewhere next.

Has anyone tried running an SFX PSU into a pico? i don't want a huge bundle of cables hanging out of my machine, just the 12V into the pico.

I've not done that, but I have used 12v "LED" PSUs.

 

[MarcParis]

Has anyone tried running an SFX PSU into a pico? i don't want a huge bundle of cables hanging out of my machine, just the 12V into the pico.

Yes I did external SF600 psu.. to power, in NFC S4 mini, core i7 6700K (just a bit undervolt, not underclocked) + AMD R9 nano..
https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/nfc-s4-mini-enthousiast-version-core-i7-6700k-r9-nano.642/

In terms of cable management, SFX psu & power cable are east to hide. However it's not as convenient as 19/12v plug to unplug.. If you are a true nomad, external SFX is not suited for you...but if it's for living room or even main gaming machine, it could work perfectly..

 

[zhl146]

I don't think its the brick or the Pico, TBH. If it is and you are in America and you cant get a return, I want to buy it from you to do tests because I have never seen a bad one of either. It *could* be that your card is sending a spike through it more than it can handle, but my first finger is not pointed at the Pico. Did you try underclocking it yet? If you just undervolted it then it serves to reason it would be even MORE likely to be unstable.

Oh, I wasn't implying that they were defective. I am most likely, as you said, sending a spike into the hardware past what it's designed to handle. I was just wondering which one, the pico or the adaptec, is more likely to go first. I was thinking the adaptec would probably shut off before the pico did when the power spikes. I was just seeing if I could alter my power delivery system so that I could handle the spikes and not have to underclock/power limit.

I did try underclocking by 100mhz and limiting to 80% and it seems to be stable for now.

Yes I did external SF600 psu.. to power, in NFC S4 mini, core i7 6700K (just a bit undervolt, not underclocked) + AMD R9 nano..
https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/nfc-s4-mini-enthousiast-version-core-i7-6700k-r9-nano.642/

I did see your post previously, but I think that you had bundles of wires coming out the back of your IO slot. I was thinking to mod the PSU itself by tying all 12V lines into one and then connecting it into a 4 pin DIN or barrel. That way, you could keep the convenience of just having one plug. Something along the lines of this http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-an-ATX-Power-Supply-Into-a-Regular-DC-Powe/ but with only 12V out instead of all the voltages.

 

[MarcParis]

Ah nice plan..

 

[Josh | NFC]

I think the Pico 160XT will output power until it physically melts.

I've run 300 watts through one before for an extended length of time, so I don't think its the Pico. It could be the brick, but it handles peaking quite well in my experience.

 

[MrNintend0]

The 480s are brilliant and the Sapphire versions overclock well and even stock whoop on the 1080 in crossfire DX12. They are too expensive right now and suck too much power and ARE TOO LONG for the S4 Mini

Not to my knowledge, although I know they are coming with the second gen platform. Hopefully not too far out in the future...

When they do come they will be a very awesome choice if they stay priced next to the 1060.

Depending on which one you get, not necessarily. I've got one planned for the Mini right now, just give me some time to get a Mini and I'll post a picture of one inside... hopefully. If not, my failure will keep some other chap from making the same mistake.

I think the Pico 160XT will output power until it physically melts.

I've run 300 watts through one before for an extended length of time, so I don't think its the Pico. It could be the brick, but it handles peaking quite well in my experience.

To zhl146 (I have no idea how to tag someone on here): Seriously, the Picos can pump quite a bit more wattage through them than you think; Josh has a video here showing a system with an R9 285 being powered by one (300 watts around the 12 minute mark).

I am doing something similar to what has been discussed (using a different AC/DC adapter), but am going to use (already have it) this. Expensive, but it's fanless and has plenty of overhead; enough for a 6700T and a 1080, or a 6700K and a 1070, both with a small undervolt.

 

[jtd871]

@MrNintend0 , use the '@' immediately before their handle.

 

[Josh | NFC]

I am doing something similar to what has been discussed (using a different AC/DC adapter), but am going to use (already have it) this. Expensive, but it's fanless and has plenty of overhead; enough for a 6700T and a 1080, or a 6700K and a 1070, both with a small undervolt.

Oh sweet! I just bought one and can't wait to test it out! They are hecka expensive but I love me some premium PSU goodness.

 

[MarcParis]

Interesting..

 

[Kmpkt]

Worth taking note of as a brick choice is that the new Razer Blade Pro laptop hit the market today and seems to have a doozy of a power brick:

http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade-pro

It's not that huge, is rated for 240W and if it's anything like the 150W Razer Brick I have, it runs extremely well at or even slightly above rated wattage. Normally within a couple of months of a laptop's release Razer will list the brick for sale on their accessories page.

 

[Saltvann]

Oh sweet! I just bought one and can't wait to test it out! They are hecka expensive but I love me some premium PSU goodness.

How does it compare to this one? Cheaper and more compact. A little weaker and plug needs changing. Probably higher effiency on the HEP model according to the datasheet.

 

[MrNintend0]

Oh sweet! I just bought one and can't wait to test it out! They are hecka expensive but I love me some premium PSU goodness.

Well, now we know what to get Josh for his birthday!

Heads up, the wires (both input and output) aren't removable and are only about 12 inches long each, so they will have to be extended. I was hoping to take off the end caps and replace the wires with some longer ones (as one piece), but the caps seem to be glued on. I'm guessing it's a thermally conductive glue so the aluminum case can dissipate heat (if this is the case, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing was filled with the stuff). I'll see if I can pry the caps off without damaging it to see what I can do.

If you're looking for the 4-pin DIN power connectors (which are known as Kycon DC Power Connectors) here are the links:

Inline Male Plug

Inline Female Plug

Panel Mount Jack

Worth taking note of as a brick choice is that the new Razer Blade Pro laptop hit the market today and seems to have a doozy of a power brick:

http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade-pro

It's not that huge, is rated for 240W and if it's anything like the 150W Razer Brick I have, it runs extremely well at or even slightly above rated wattage. Normally within a couple of months of a laptop's release Razer will list the brick for sale on their accessories page.

Sounds good. Not sure what voltage it outputs, but I'm guessing 19V. If I'm right, it'll be a good alternative to the 240W Dell power brick people are using for the HDPLEX. Sadly, the Pico must use 12V...

How does it compare to this one? Cheaper and more compact. A little weaker and plug needs changing. Probably higher effiency on the HEP model according to the datasheet.

Yep, definitely cheaper, and as you noticed the plug needs changing and it's slightly less efficient. Another thing is that the output voltage isn't adjustable, which the other one is (10.8V to 13.5V according to the datasheet). This can be important depending on the situation (check Josh's vid that I linked), and I'd rather have it just in case; it also has current adjustment, which won't be needed, but could be a nice safety feature if wanted.




If you're looking for the most powerful desktop power brick (E.G. Voodoo, Dell, and Adaptec bricks), check this one out.

 

[Kmpkt]

Just for the record, Larry at HDplex will likely be releasing a 19V pico in the next couple of months.

 

[Phuncz]

I am doing something similar to what has been discussed (using a different AC/DC adapter), but am going to use (already have it) this.

That one is quite large for 320W at 252mm x 90mm x 44m (1,00 L), that's larger than a 600W SFX PSU (0,80 L). I'm afraid I have to warn the efficiency police on this one ! Those industrial PSUs are rarely produced for space efficiency regretably. But Mean Well maybe has other, more interesting power supplies in their huge catalogue.

The afformentioned Razer PSU is between 0,47 L and 0,28 L (inc./exc. bulge) for 250W by the way.

 

[Kmpkt]

0.47 for a bounding box including the bulge? Bulge doesn't seem like it should be that much more volume.

Also here's a nice option from EVGA that they recently released with their SC17 laptop. A lot cheaper than the Razer will undoubtably be and looks to be about 12cm x 12cm?

 

[Phuncz]

0.47 for a bounding box including the bulge? Bulge doesn't seem like it should be that much more volume.

Yep, bounding box:

17mm or 28mm thickness.

 

[MrNintend0]

Just for the record, Larry at HDplex will likely be releasing a 19V pico in the next couple of months.

Yeah, I'm hoping for that. It would also give us a lot more options for power bricks at higher wattages with less current.

That one is quite large for 320W at 252mm x 90mm x 44m (1,00 L), that's larger than a 600W SFX PSU (0,80 L). I'm afraid I have to warn the efficiency police on this one ! Those industrial PSUs are rarely produced for space efficiency regretably. But Mean Well maybe has other, more interesting power supplies in their huge catalogue.

The afformentioned Razer PSU is between 0,47 L and 0,28 L (inc./exc. bulge) for 250W by the way.

Mean Well has plenty of others, but this one happened to be the one that caught my eye mainly because it was fanless. I have a cheap 3D printer (Monoprice Maker Select for those who want to know) and the fan on the internal PSU inside the control box is loud. I could replace the fan with a quieter one, but then it wouldn't be moving as much air as the PSU needs; I'd have to mod it far more than just replacing the fan to keep it cool and quiet. This is what turned me away from other PSUs with fans (the industrial ones, not your standard PC ones).

The other thing that caught my eye was the fact that you can adjust the voltage and current combined with a fanless design. Along with that, the pictures showed that I might be able to replace the factory wires with different/longer/shorter ones, which as I found out will be more difficult than I had hoped, but we'll see what happens. Some people will think it's useless or unnecessary, which is fine, I don't mind. We all need a little constructive criticism in our lives. Heck, with the components I've chosen I might be able to go back to the Adaptec brick that comes with the kit if I undervolt the GPU a little.

Quick question, has anyone measured what the temps were on different parts of the Pico itself? I'm wondering how much of a difference adding some heatsinks to it would make.

 

[flacman]

Welp - got my first hard reset with the 1060 SC @ 85% power target while playing the Battlefield 1 SP missions.

Multiplayer doesn't seem as power hungry and I had no issues for the couple of rounds I played -- nevertheless have throttled it down to 80% for the time being.

Who knows -- I might just get an RX 460, sell the 1060, use the S4 as a HTPC and go back to using my full desktop tower (sad, I know) to play games.

 

[confusis]

@flacman What driver version are you using? 375.57 had quite a few bugs in BF1, you may have encountered one.