S4 MINI Classic (S4M-C)

[hyperborea]

The HDPlex was in stock on the UK Amazon store in January but now it's been unavailable for at least a month. On the other hand, 6700T chips seem to be popping up again (although the price is still quite high). It's tricky to find everything in stock overseas to say the least.

 

[Tek Everything]

I contacted HDPlex last week, and was told by one of their representatives that the HDPlex 250 will be back in stock on March 20th.

 

[gtr]

I'm interested in building an 970 VR Ready S4. What are the most common parts cpu wattage and brand of 970?
My current pcpartpicker list is at about 278W.

 

[Josh | NFC]

I'd say that most people have been interested in the ASUS 970, but my actual customers have used a fairly wide spread of brands. The Gigabyte one has the most users. I'm trying to rotate out and try them all myself for my full build customers.

Here is the build I am doing this week--the motherboard and SSD work great together and I am sticking with it as I know it works well for the S4.

Cooler - NHl9i
Samsung 950 PRO -Series 512GB
Asus GTX 970 Mini DCU
HyperX FURY DDR4 2666
Motherboard - GA Z170N - Wifi
Windows 10 (64) Home Premium
Premium bulgin switch & wiring
S4 Mini (LE Powder)
NFC-Systems PCIe 16x Ribbon
HDPLEX HiFi 250W
Dell 330w or Voodoo 350w
CPU i7 6700 (65w TDP)


I like how the Asus 970 has a backplate and uses a vapor chambor for its heat plate. I'm not sure about the omni-directional cooler...It doesn't seem ideal in the S4 Mini at that high of a TDP. It might work out fantastic--I dunno, which is why I am trying it.

 

[K888D]

I've tried both the Gigabyte and Asus cards in a Sharkoon CA-I Case and what I found was the Asus was much better suited.

You could hear the Gigabyte card even when the computer was idle, possibly due to its close proximity to the bottom vents and HDDs, but when it was gaming the fan got very loud indeed, loudest Graphics card I've ever heard.

The Asus in comparison was virtually silent when idle and much quieter when gaming, the overall system also ran much cooler as the Asus pushes some of the heat out the rear through the grill, whereas the Gigabyte pumps all the heat into the case.

I'm not sure if the Gigabyte card I got was a dud as it seemed overly loud even at idle. I've used the same Gigabyte model about a year ago in a Silverstone ML07B and it ran Silent when idle in that case, but it had a 120mm intake fan blowing directly onto it.

 

[flacman]

Josh, I've noticed that you like to use the Zalman CNPS2X cooler in your systems - how well does that cool (idle/load) compared to the Noctua L9i on a 6700T (or similar 35W TDP) processor?

 

[Josh | NFC]

Josh, I've noticed that you like to use the Zalman CNPS2X cooler in your systems - how well does that cool (idle/load) compared to the Noctua L9i on a 6700T (or similar 35W TDP) processor?

I prefer it to the Noctua on 35w systems, and perhaps even 65w systems. The Noctua definitely is what I would (and do use) for CPUs higher than 65w.

The reason is the Zalman seems to reduce the temperature of components around it during sustain load testing. I don't think it is necessarily the function of the omni-directional fan cooling these components under load, but rather that they are not being heatgun blasted by a bi-directional cooler. Whatever the reason, it is what I have found to be the case.

While the Zalman is a very quiet fan, the Noctua is even quieter, but we are talking about fans that are almost silent. With a 35w CPU unless your Zalman's fan is defective or not riding straight it should be silent. You also have the added bonus of using a 120mm Scythe fan (get the 1900+ RPM version, the 1600RPM one is just WEAK) to cool all your components, but to be honest with a 35w CPU this is unnecessary, and I don't usually run them even with a 65w CPU either.

There is one FLAW with the Zalman. The fan isn't attached sturdily because of the heatsink's clever design. This means that during shipping the fan can become unseated and will have to be "popped" back into place using a pencil through the vents or something. I've never had this happen while carrying the system, but shipping systems through UPS it does happen more often than I would like. The Noctua doesn't have this "flaw" but it does weigh more.

Other customers can and have commented and I don't think my recommendations are out of line with theirs, but the TL;DR is

35w - Zalman
65w - Zalman (Scythe optional)
80w - Noctua

Thanks!

 

[flacman]

Thanks Josh. This helps my ever-evolving plan for a build based off the S4.

Unfortunately for me, I would have to import both the S4 and the Zalman CNPS2X...

Personally, performance-aside I prefer the golden copper colour of the Zalman.

 

[Josh | NFC]

If it were me I wouldn't stress it if your local option is limited to the Noctua. I've personally done several THOROUGHLY tested builds now with it and give it a big thumbs up. My recommendations are just guidelines.

The Zalman does look dope though

 

[MarcParis]

I noticed NFC S4 mini only a couple days ago...being in France is not easy as SFF fans aren't that many..

At the start I was very pleased by S4 mini because it has a very high space efficiency, and is able to handle some powerful GPU.

However I was a bit frustrated due to R9 Nano issue with HD plex + standard 19V brick (even voodoo 350W).

Josh, I would like to know your point of view of possibility to have external plug like modular power supply instead of relying 100% on DC-DC power adapter. Idea will be to use whatever external powersupply with ATX connector. Like this :

it may be a stupid idea....

 

[Josh | NFC]

Hello, Marc!

I enjoyed your build thread in your sig.

Runamok on [H]ardforum actually made a post about this, and many users chimed in with their perceived pros and cons. Here is a link to that bridge board, btw.

I am glad that we all have different opinions and I love seeing users mod their S4s to make it their own. I can tell you that I won't be implementing a bridge board solution in the Mini. My goal with the Mini is not to be the most powerful box around, but something that is designed for "just enough" gaming and combining it with excellent travel capability and good looks.

That being said...the GPUs releasing this year might make the Mini's DC-DC option much more relevant...and potent.

But in the meantime...hopefully this year many of the Mini-ITX cases that support full length GPUs and bigger PSUs will be out. I think Dan's amazing A4 will be out soon, for example. There are tons of really great mini-ITX solutions on these forums, I just don't know when they will be retail.

Thank you so much for your interest!

 

[michaelmitchell]

I noticed NFC S4 mini only a couple days ago...being in France is not easy as SFF fans aren't that many..

At the start I was very pleased by S4 mini because it has a very high space efficiency, and is able to handle some powerful GPU.

However I was a bit frustrated due to R9 Nano issue with HD plex + standard 19V brick (even voodoo 350W).

Josh, I would like to know your point of view of possibility to have external plug like modular power supply instead of relying 100% on DC-DC power adapter. Idea will be to use whatever external powersupply with ATX connector. Like this :

it may be a stupid idea....

Try it and let us know what you think . Different ideas will fit different peoples needs, its true for larger cases and will remain true for these small form factor cases.

I am personally not interested in using a regular ATX power supply externally with a case like this because I like how AC-DC bricks can generally be hidden away quite easily and in a sense don't add to the cases size/shape, with a regular power supply the cable run will be very thick and quite short meaning it will have to sit close enough and detract from an otherwise sexy looking case. If I were to do it I might consider using a FlexPSU and dress it up to look a little nicer somehow but I would generally opt for a larger case with an internal power supply.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the R9 Nano, I don't think it is an indicator of being able to run powerful cards on DC power, ASUS ROG G20 is running up to GTX 980 using dual brick method just fine and could probably run a GTX 980 TI.

I am personally going to be experimenting with the dual bricks since 2 x Dell PA-9E for a total of 480W is roughly the same size/volume as a single Dell 330W or HP 350W giving a much higher power density. Tek Everything has already had some success with dual PicoPSU but I will be testing a Pico Box version with wide input to support 12V+ bricks like the PA-9E.

On a cooling note, I am personally going to be using an ID COOLING IS-40pro which is a cheaper alternative to the Noctua and ships world wide for free. I dropped the idea of the Zalman early after reading reviews and when I decided I didn't want to be limited to 35W CPU's.

 

[MarcParis]

Josh, thank you for your comment about my build..

In fact as external power supply I was not meaning ATX (too big to hide), but mainly TFX (like this one : http://www.seasonicusa.com/TFX-350.htm) and you can sue what ever type or/and length of cable to connect on small box..

However, as you stated, clearly Polaris and Pascal will help DC-DC as they are supposed to be focus on energy saving...however as R9 Nano illustrated, we have to be cautious.

On Dan Case A4...I'm following him currently..but despite its amazing size, I would prefer silverstonetek rvz02/ml08 that are not so far in terms of size..

Josh : in S4 mini, is it possible to put a Cryorig C7 on cpu please? I saw on hardforum topic, and it seems to be 2mm too tall

 

[michaelmitchell]

In fact as external power supply I was not meaning ATX (too big to hide), but mainly TFX (like this one : http://www.seasonicusa.com/TFX-350.htm) and you can sue what ever type or/and length of cable to connect on small box..

I would love to see someone do this, especially with TFX or Flex to see how it works out. My thinking was that the 24 pin connector alone would make one very stiff and thick combined cable leading to the box which wouldn't be great for portability since packing up 1m of 24 wires to stuff into a back pack would take up a large amount of space compared to 2-3 wires required by a AC-DC brick.

On Dan Case A4...I'm following him currently..but despite its amazing size, I would prefer silverstonetek rvz02/ml08 that are not so far in terms of size..

RVZ02 is massive in comparison to Dans A4 but I guess it depends on your perspective. For me that 4.5-5L makes a huge difference especially in portability, there is no way to fit an RVZ02 into a backpack which is a deal breaker for me, I guess it looked more impressive in pictures than in reality but overall I am not impressed with the RVZ02.

 

[Josh | NFC]

Try it and let us know what you think . Different ideas will fit different peoples needs, its true for larger cases and will remain true for these small form factor cases.
I dropped the idea of the Zalman early after reading reviews and when I decided I didn't want to be limited to 35W CPU's.

To be fair, the VAST majority of builds I have done have been with 65w CPUs and the Zalman. Two of my OEM customers use S3 Minis with 65w i7s and the Zalman and they aren't vented on the backsides and perform very well. I think the Zalman starts to struggle above 65w but it really is a nice design for these ultra SFF spaces that don't vent well.

The Noctua blows the Zalman out of the water on a test bench (it has more metal afterall), but it doesn't get rid of that hot air as efficiently in a closed space.

Let me know what you think of IS-40Pro!

Josh, thank you for your comment about my build..

Josh : in S4 mini, is it possible to put a Cryorig C7 on cpu please? I saw on hardforum topic, and it seems to be 2mm too tall

I have one coming from a friend to test out...but I am almost positive it is too tall...

 

[MarcParis]

I would like to try to sum up several power adapter possible for S4 mini, and possible configurations with. Please tell me if I'm wrong/incorrect as well

• Mini Box Pico PSU 160W + Power adapter 192W 12V :
  • GTX 950 (or 90W card) + CPU 65W
  • GTX 960 (or 120W card) + CPU 35W
• Mini Box Pico PSU 160W + Tweak on wire cross section () + ??? power adapter 240W in 12V :
  
  • R9 285 (190W with no high peak above 300W?) + CPU 35W?
  • GTX 970 (145W) + CPU 65W
• HDPLEX 250W + Powerbrick 240W or above :
  • GTX 970 + CPU 65W
  • R9 Nano + CPU 65W (have issues when not enough loaded as R9 Nano request some peaks of 483W approx) https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/kees-kogelmier-a-tiny-powerhouse.279/page-4

Wiring in S4 mini using pico PSU is far more easier than HD plex. Finding powerful PSU in 19V is far more easier with HD plex..

I'm trying to figure to what PSU I'll go..

Thank you in advance

 

[michaelmitchell]

I would like to try to sum up several power adapter possible for S4 mini, and possible configurations with. Please tell me if I'm wrong/incorrect as well

• Mini Box Pico PSU 160W + Power adapter 192W 12V :
  • GTX 950 (or 90W card) + CPU 65W
  • GTX 960 (or 120W card) + CPU 35W
• Mini Box Pico PSU 160W + Tweak on wire cross section () + ??? power adapter 240W in 12V :
  • R9 285 (190W with no high peak above 300W?) + CPU 35W?
  • GTX 970 (145W) + CPU 65W
• HDPLEX 250W + Powerbrick 240W or above :
  • GTX 970 + CPU 65W
  • R9 Nano + CPU 65W (have issues when not enough loaded as R9 Nano request some peaks of 483W approx) https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/kees-kogelmier-a-tiny-powerhouse.279/page-4

Wiring in S4 mini using pico PSU is far more easier than HD plex. Finding powerful PSU in 19V is far more easier with HD plex..

I'm trying to figure to what PSU I'll go..

Thank you in advance

If you want a PicoPSU style with wide input range up to 240w (in theory) there is Z3-ATX-200. As of yet I no one has tested these units in an S4 build (as far as I know) but I will have results for you in the coming weeks as my S4 mini will be arriving very shortly along with a Z3-ATX-200 which I will test with the DELL PA-9E 240W brick powering GTX 960 + 84W CPU. If all goes well I will be ordering a second Z3-ATX-200 + PA-9E combo to test 480W dual brick setup with GTX970 + 84W CPU.

Keep in mind that PicoPSU 160W requires replacing of wires to support higher currents and the addition of a custom PCI-E power cable which the HDPLEX does not require.

I also think dual PicoPSU with two bricks is a valid option for running GTX 970 + 65W or more CPU, Tek Everything is running 200W + 120W bricks with this setup, you can see this thread for details https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/simple-dual-pico-psu-set-up.552/.

 

[MarcParis]

If you want a PicoPSU style with wide input range up to 240w (in theory) there is Z3-ATX-200. As of yet I no one has tested these units in an S4 build (as far as I know) but I will have results for you in the coming weeks as my S4 mini will be arriving very shortly along with a Z3-ATX-200 which I will test with the DELL PA-9E 240W brick powering GTX 960 + 84W CPU. If all goes well I will be ordering a second Z3-ATX-200 + PA-9E combo to test 480W dual brick setup with GTX970 + 84W CPU.

Keep in mind that PicoPSU 160W requires replacing of wires to support higher currents and the addition of a custom PCI-E power cable which the HDPLEX does not require.

I also think dual PicoPSU with two bricks is a valid option for running GTX 970 + 65W or more CPU, Tek Everything is running 200W + 120W bricks with this setup, you can see this thread for details https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/simple-dual-pico-psu-set-up.552/.

Z3-atx-200 seems really promising indeed. However do you think standard wires length is enough for s4 box? ( I mean the wire between pico psu and external plug)
Second good point, this pico psu is using 16-24v range..cool

Last question : how check compatibilty of external plug with power brick?

 

[michaelmitchell]

Z3-atx-200 seems really promising indeed. However do you think standard wires length is enough for s4 box? ( I mean the wire between pico psu and external plug)
Second good point, this pico psu is using 16-24v range..cool

Last question : how check compatibilty of external plug with power brick?

I am not sure 100% yet and it does look kind of short in photos but we will find out soon enough when mine arrives, I imagine it could be easily fixed by replacing the cables with custom length, maybe even preferable to keep things tidy. I will upload hi-res photos and lengths when it arrives.

The power connector is 5.5x2.5mm so just compare with your intended power brick, I over looked this and have just ordered adaptors to fit the PA-9E which is 7.4x5.0mm but you could also replace the female connector itself to match your brick, I might consider doing this if I have to extend the power cable but fairly easy to tape an adapter onto the power brick

I've heard that it runs hot over 160w and that adding heat sinks is pretty much required, I will test without just for curiosities sake but I intend to add heat sinks regardless.

 

[MarcParis]

wouah that is making a lot of extra work!
Simply speaking, is mini box pico psu @160w using their mini power adapter is completely compatible to s4 mini? Even internal wire length to external power brick?
Same question pour hdplex 250w with voodoo 350w in terms of external plug to power brick...