S4 MINI Classic (S4M-C)

[CubanLegend]

So my mini came in yesterday, I put it all together and took some pics, I'll upload the pics and make a thread later today during my duty-free lunch break. S4 Mini #193!!!

Even AMD isn't daring to say that they can beat the Intel chips on a single-threaded basis, they said something to the effect that they're a little less thread performance and a chunk less instructions-per-clock.

On the other hand, the 7700k can't really be overclocked in the S4; there's currently no heatsink/fan combo good enough to overclock it to ~5ghz without thermally throttling. It is a 91w TDP at stock, and would exceed that as soon as you overvolt it.

The 65w TDP of Ryzen could theoretically give overall better gaming performance in this case, but few games benefit from 4-8 cores as they do from high single-thread performance. I'd still urge to wait for the review embargo to be lifted on Ryzen before planning your build around it; I own an RX 480 GPU and they straight up lied about the TDP performance on that, as we've seen it can exceed it's TDP without overclocking, and at launch was exceeding the PCIE spec until they did an emergency firmware patch to fix that.

All-in-all AMD can be an excellent value, but performance-to-watt, which is the true limiting factor in cases like this, is still lagging behind Intel/NVidia even with the new process node. I'm rooting to see some real competition, and I'd go all-AMD if I were building another rig in a larger case like the Thermaltake Core V1, but in a case like this where every watt is a challenge to the power supply and cooling systems, Kaby Lake / GTX 10-series is the way to maximize the performance-per-watt.

Boy are you right about a 7700K NOT BEING ABLE to be overclocked inside an S4 mini. My mini came in yesterday with the HDPLEX w/wire mod and my 1080mini.... and After I put it all together my idle temps jumped nearly 10c from it being inside the case. From 36-39c at stock to 46c... I'm going to run it like this for a week, today I'll reapply thermal paste in case my jiggling of the mobo loosened my thermal paste seal between the HSF and the CPU's IHS... but after this first week, I'm going to use my Rockit tool to delid. HOLY CRAP I was hitting 89c in watchdogs 2 on all ultra at 1080p (all 60fps with rare drops to 55) , WITHOUT AN OC, and my GPU (1080mini) although cool was hitting about 72C.

 

[Tact1calBeard]

So my mini came in yesterday, I put it all together and took some pics, I'll upload the pics and make a thread later today during my duty-free lunch break. S4 Mini #193!!!


Boy are you right about a 7700K NOT BEING ABLE to be overclocked inside an S4 mini. My mini came in yesterday with the HDPLEX w/wire mod and my 1080mini.... and After I put it all together my idle temps jumped nearly 10c from it being inside the case. From 36-39c at stock to 46c... I'm going to run it like this for a week, today I'll reapply thermal paste in case my jiggling of the mobo loosened my thermal paste seal between the HSF and the CPU's IHS... but after this first week, I'm going to use my Rockit tool to delid. HOLY CRAP I was hitting 89c in watchdogs 2 on all ultra at 1080p (all 60fps with rare drops to 55) , WITHOUT AN OC, and my GPU (1080mini) although cool was hitting about 79C.

I want to do the same build, but I think I'll go with the 7700 non K, it shouldn't be such a high performance impact. I personally rate stability and reliability over a bit more performance. an I think the 330W PSU won't offer enough headroom for OC either or am I wrong?

 

[Grafite]

I think the 330W PSU won't offer enough headroom for OC either or am I wrong?

Well, Josh did a video with the 7700k and a 1080, and it drew only 260-270 from the wall. So I'd say there is plenty of OC room. But I agree with just going with a 7700 as you can't OC too much without throttling in small cases.

 

[CXH4]

Hey guys, in the process of building my S4. Very excited! One questions though...is it normal that the end of the video card (the end away from the IO ports) tilts upwards?

You can see here that the end tilts up, as the PCI riser looks crooked. Not sure what the issue is, or if it's my video card?

@Josh | NFC , any ideas?

One of your cables may be directly under your GPU causing it to be pushed upwards, I have experienced this and that was the issue.

 

[Josh | NFC]

Hey guys, in the process of building my S4. Very excited! One questions though...is it normal that the end of the video card (the end away from the IO ports) tilts upwards?

You can see here that the end tilts up, as the PCI riser looks crooked. Not sure what the issue is, or if it's my video card?

@Josh | NFC , any ideas?

It's normal for shorter cards. It depends on a combination of your GPU, Motherboard, and Riser forming. Some systems it does it, some it doesn't. It is weird but GPUs and Motherboards actually can do this without a riser, it just is harder to notice.

You can reduce it by bending your riser a little more, or you can just use a block of neoprene between the end of the card and the SSD bay, or just live with it.

 

[Smallform Gaming]

It's normal for shorter cards. It depends on a combination of your GPU, Motherboard, and Riser forming. Some systems it does it, some it doesn't. It is weird but GPUs and Motherboards actually can do this without a riser, it just is harder to notice.

You can reduce it by bending your riser a little more, or you can just use a block of neoprene between the end of the card and the SSD bay, or just live with it.

*Mine did this too, and it was super frustrating.(not only on the GPU side but MOBO side as well)
It didn't make that much of a difference on the GPU side but on the MOBO side. It was barely noticeable but I noticed because I was using a 15.8mm fan with the Noctua cooler, the pan head mounting bolts closest to the front of the case were too high and interfered with the case closing properly by 1mm or so. The back ones bolts fit perfectly.I was lucky because switching to lower profile fan mounting bolts fixed the issue.

 

[Zero]

Boy are you right about a 7700K NOT BEING ABLE to be overclocked inside an S4 mini. My mini came in yesterday with the HDPLEX w/wire mod and my 1080mini.... and After I put it all together my idle temps jumped nearly 10c from it being inside the case. From 36-39c at stock to 46c... I'm going to run it like this for a week, today I'll reapply thermal paste in case my jiggling of the mobo loosened my thermal paste seal between the HSF and the CPU's IHS... but after this first week, I'm going to use my Rockit tool to delid. HOLY CRAP I was hitting 89c in watchdogs 2 on all ultra at 1080p (all 60fps with rare drops to 55) , WITHOUT AN OC, and my GPU (1080mini) although cool was hitting about 72C.

If you check back at one of my earlier posts you'll see I set my 7700k to 1.08v and 4.0ghz locked, yeah it's an underclock/undervolt but it goes from 90 watts on Prime95 down to 50 watts.

Stay tuned tonight, I am trying out both a new cooling mod and a new power delivery mod to push the limits on my build.

 

[cakePlease]

One of your cables may be directly under your GPU causing it to be pushed upwards, I have experienced this and that was the issue.

That's what i was thinking too, with all the craming, its very possible. But fortunately, there wasnt any wires stuck under.

It's normal for shorter cards. It depends on a combination of your GPU, Motherboard, and Riser forming. Some systems it does it, some it doesn't. It is weird but GPUs and Motherboards actually can do this without a riser, it just is harder to notice.

You can reduce it by bending your riser a little more, or you can just use a block of neoprene between the end of the card and the SSD bay, or just live with it.

Thanks for confirming. Seems like a weird video card occurrence then. Man this Steel Ocean paint is so awesome!

 

[Zero]

Heads up, I found an interesting accessory for the S4:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Monitor-Sta...One-Computer-Adjustable-1099888-/252487354254

This is an Ergotron Neo-Flex stand, for $35 on eBay with free shipping (they have 140+ of them in stock so you could probably make an offer).

It combines a clamp and strap in the back to hold an ITX case, with an adjustable VESA mount in the front to hold a monitor, and a carrying handle in the middle. If you were looking for an all-in-one lan party solution, that seems like a bargain.

I got one to be the guinea pig if you want to wait for me to see how well it actually works.

 

[Zero]

Posting from my phone because my PC taken apart.

The good news is the Cryorig C7 is the perfect height for the case if you pop off it's 90x15mm fan and mount the Cryorig 140x13mm fan over it with the S4 fan bracket. I put the lid on and it's flawless.

The bad news is Josh wasn't kidding when he said Cryorig has some quality control issues. I had the same issue as him with the garbage tolerance on those posts that go through the motherboard, I had to really squeeze to pop them in to place. But the issue that has me blocked is that the nuts which go on the underside of the motherboard are stupidly long. They are a few mm longer than the standoffs on the case, so at least on this motherboard, you can't screw the motherboard down once this cooler is installed. I tried with the normal plastic plate the C7 includes, and the ITX washers, can't be done.

Both these issues could easily be fixed but it'll require a trip to the hardware store in the morning. If I can find some screws in this rather weird threading that the Cryorig standoffs use, those would fix the tolerance and clearance issues.

 

[Zero]

I'm back! Can't keep me down for long. So, I figured out a solution to that dumb Cryorig mount. Here's the dumb Cryorig mount:

I noticed that the mount brackets from my Thermalake Slim X3 would work if I could mount them, but they didn't quite line up. Enter Josh's favorite power tool to the rescue: Dremel with Tungsten Carbide Cutter!

Now we're talking! I used the rest of the Thermaltake mounting nuts and it went on perfectly and securely. The Thermaltake cooler cost a paltry $20 so I don't mind cannibalizing it if it saves me a trip to the hardware store.

So, now I have a Cryorig C7 cooler mounted using Thermaltake Slim X3 hardware, and with a Cryorig 140mm fan over it.

Performance-wise, The C7 does about as well with it's 15mm stock fan (which won't fit in the case) or the 140mm fan (which fits, and adds some bonus cooling to the surrounding components. It seems to be at least 10c cooler than the Thermaltake with the 140mm fan. Prime95 will still max out the temps, but I haven't found anything else that will. I'll try overclocking next.

 

[Zero]

I promised two surprises. Here's my second invention:

I got two of these, $7 each: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G700QQ0/?tag=theminutiae-20

They are meant to receive the power tip from a Dell laptop brick (like the 240w or 330w brick), and convert it to some other laptop plug. Doesn't matter, I took scissors and chopped off the other end off them, and stripped the wires to expose them. They are color coded; black is negative and white is positive.

Next I took the end of a 6-pin PCIE adapter from an EVGA supernova power supply. Removing the sheathing, there was a capacitor wired in the loop so I chopped that out to leave just the 6 wires for the 6 pins. I separated out the wires; the top 3 wires on the "clip" side of the PCI plug are positive for the HDPlex DC input, and the 3 wires on the non-retainer-clip side are the negative.

Finally I soldered the two white wires of the two adapter tips together, and the two black, and then soldered those to the corresponding positive/negative wire groups on the PCIE cable. Presto:

What is that supposed to do, you ask? Plug it into the HDPlex, and it's double your pleasure, double your fun:

That's two 240w Dell bricks in parallel for 480w total. Of course, the HDPlex can only do up to 400w peak, but these bricks will supply that without straining. I'm posting from this right now and both bricks are completely cold to the touch.

These 240w Dell Flextronics adapters are readily available on eBay new for $40 shipped each. So, you could build this for the same cost as the 330w adapter on NewEgg (and I'm sure that won't be around forever). This puts out more power and each brick is in a better efficiency sweet-spot when under load.

One caveat though, you want to make sure to always use two identical power bricks. Small differences in voltage or response could be bad. Also, I tried using only the 330w adapter in one of these plug ports, and the PC cut out multiple times when Valley Benchmark started. So, I believe maybe a single plug can't carry the current from the 330w adapter, because those have thinner gauge wiring or something. The double 240w setup seems really robust though, I'll keep people updated on how it works out.

Edit: One other perk of this cable that I thought of. If you use it with two battery packs that each have a Dell style laptop plug as output, you could hot-swap batteries without the PC powering down. I'm unplugging and replugging one port at a time right now and the PC doesn't mind.

 

[iFreilicht]

That's two 240w Dell bricks in parallel for 480w total.

Sorry for being a complete party-pooper; what is the combined volume of those two bricks?

 

[bledha]

Sorry for being a complete party-pooper; what is the combined volume of those two bricks?

I was thinking the same thing, looks half the volume of the case. Seems antithetical to the SFF goal of the case design (look at me, talking smack as an "Efficiency Noob") but still really cool to see so much power being drawn by just over 4L - and equally cool that it comes together so well.

Also:

it's double your pleasure, double your fun

Can't argue with that logic!

 

[Ceros_X]

Heads up, I found an interesting accessory for the S4:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Monitor-Sta...One-Computer-Adjustable-1099888-/252487354254

This is an Ergotron Neo-Flex stand, for $35 on eBay with free shipping (they have 140+ of them in stock so you could probably make an offer).

It combines a clamp and strap in the back to hold an ITX case, with an adjustable VESA mount in the front to hold a monitor, and a carrying handle in the middle. If you were looking for an all-in-one lan party solution, that seems like a bargain.

I got one to be the guinea pig if you want to wait for me to see how well it actually works.

Wouldn't one of these be preferable (as the S4 Mini's vent holes match the VESA mounting pattern as seen here)? No handle but I feel it is probably lighter and a better solution than a strap for the S4. Not quad rail and carry handle cool, but pretty nice.

 

[Bruman]

I'm going to order a S4 Mini that is sure, for this current build or a future one, but does this sound... okay?

CPU: Pentium G4560
Cooler: Noctua NH-L9i
Mobo: ASRock H110M-ITX/ac
RAM: Kingston FURY 8GB
GPU: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4GB

Now, questions:

1) Is this okay in general? Just going to use it for LAN's and as a Media Center on the downtime. Maybe sell to my partners brother who is wanting to get into PC gaming.

2) Should I try for a current gen Mobo to futureproof it (a little bit)?

3) Which PSU should I get, I'm thinking of a PICO since I am sure it can power this build but am I wrong?

Cheers

 

[EdZ]

One caveat though, you want to make sure to always use two identical power bricks. Small differences in voltage or response could be bad.

This can still happen with two bricks of the same model. To prevent this, adding Schottky diodes inline with each PSU input would be a good idea.

This will provide some protection, but the 'proper' way to do this would be to use a load balancer.

 

[Phuncz]

Dual-bricking it should have a more elegant solution. With one input (AC plug) and one output (DC plug).

 

[Tact1calBeard]

I had an idea regarding a 1080 mini build without cutting the plastic bezel of the card like in Josh's build video.

If you take the whole bezel apart including the fans and mount 1x 140mm fan or other fans instead, that are regulated via the pwm connector of the card with this adapter

I don't own a S4, yet. So what do you think, could this be an option?

 

[Zero]

I had an idea regarding a 1080 mini build without cutting the plastic bezel of the card like in Josh's build video.

If you take the whole bezel apart including the fans and mount 1x 140mm fan or other fans instead, that are regulated via the pwm connector of the card with this adapter

I don't own a S4, yet. So what do you think, could this be an option?

The heatsink of the card is like 1-2 millimetres too long for the case as well, so even with your method the case would be getting pushed by the wraparound bezel.

Sorry for being a complete party-pooper; what is the combined volume of those two bricks?

Out of sight, out of mind is my philosophy. If I just toss them under the desk where I don't look at them, then who cares

To answer your question though, if you stack the two bricks, they are about the same volume as single 330w brick.

Dual-bricking it should have a more elegant solution. With one input (AC plug) and one output (DC plug).

It's very easy to get a "Y-splitter" cable so a single cable from the wall splits into the two C13 brick inputs.

My method replicates what some actual consumer SFF PCs do, like this: http://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/2612-why-2-power-adapters-for-the-msi-dual-gtx-1080-laptop

You have a point though, I could try to make two DC female go to a single DC make jack, but I would have to find a barrel port on it's own so I could add thick enough gauge of wire for the combined current.