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Nintendo Switch

Soul_Est

SFF Guru
SFFn Staff
Feb 12, 2016
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Yes, of course. I don't think anyone had unreasonable expectations for the power of its hardware.

I saw some pictures of people who scratched the screen when placing the console on the dock... makes me wonder if some people are more careless than small kids, actually. :v
Unfortunately, many did just like with the AMD Ryzen 7 processors and no critical thinking. That last comment made my night. XD

Well an hour ago I didn't think it was so bad, but then I read this and now I'm not sure what to think. I'll probably wait for the Switch v2 - I'm sure that will have a nice Denver + Pascal based chip in it :)
Interesting. Given the time between the X1 and the Nintendo Switch, an updated Switch won't be for a couple years at least.
 

IntoxicatedPuma

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Feb 26, 2016
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Interesting. Given the time between the X1 and the Nintendo Switch, an updated Switch won't be for a couple years at least.

And given Nintendo's launch lineup, it wont be for a couple years at least till they get a good library of games
 

jØrd

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personally I wont be much interested in the Switch until the hombrew community has had some time to dig into it. I'll be interested to see how it compares to the Wii and Wiiu in that respect
 

iFreilicht

FlexATX Authority
Feb 28, 2015
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I sure hope they update at least part of the switch soon. The dock can apparently scratch the screen during insertion, which is no fun.
And the layout of the buttons on the joycons only seems fit for very small hands. I really want one, but I'm contemplating waiting for a Switch XL that has larger controls and a bigger battery.
 

zovc

King of Cable Management
Jan 5, 2017
852
603
I'm not sold on the switch, but I've been enjoying Breath of he Wild on the Wii U. Not a fan of the stuttering or the 720p but I guess that's just the life Nintendo wants me to live...
 

iFreilicht

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Feb 28, 2015
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I'll take 720p over stuttering everyday. Unfortunately, the switch doesn't let you decide that either. If it's docked, you're forced to play on a higher resolution. More reasons to wait.

Oh and not being able to transfer save-files to the micro SD card is quite a biggie, too.
 

IntoxicatedPuma

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I found its more comfortable to remove the joycon from the grip and just lay back with my hands at my side and pretend the game is controlled by mind. Its crazy relaxing.
 

iFreilicht

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Feb 28, 2015
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I hear you, but that's not really possible in a handheld scenario. For playing at home I'd probably get a pro-controller, but I'd love to try what you describe. That does indeed sound pretty chill.
 

Kooki

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Mar 30, 2016
129
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Smooth play 720p > 900p random drops...
I really hope the new mario game runs at 60fps...
 

3lfk1ng

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Jun 3, 2016
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This might come off as horribly pessimistic (sorry!!) but as a long time fan of Nintendo, I must admit that I have lost all faith in Nintendo over the years :(

Please excuse me if I come off a little blunt but I just cannot see myself buying into the Nintendo ecosystem anymore. If Nintendo wants to win me back, they really need to release a more powerful living-room console with real hardware (not tablet hardware) that is capable of accepting ports of titles from other game consoles (and playing them at ~1080p30). Also, if Nintendo wants to compete for the living room, it needs to be a far better media companion (streamer, etc etc).

Ever since the Wii, Nintendo seems entirely too focused on making budget friendly SFF-oriented consoles with vastly inferior hardware/OS that rely far too heavily on first party developer support in order to keep them afloat. Without enough developers/publishers that are willing to invest money to make original games for the lowest selling console, all we're seeing so far is a small handful of original titles and a bunch last-gen, indie, or 2D ports from yesteryear.

At their lower price point, unique features aside, perhaps they are targeting kids or maybe low income families instead of the generation that grew up playing Nintendo. If that is the case (not saying that it is), I feel like they have ultimately lost sight of their target audience knowing that the generation that they are trying to appeal to today, is a generation that grew up on their parent's iPads and $1 games. The generation that grew up playing Nintendo has since matured and moved on to the more mature platforms (PS4, XBox, PC) and it's really only the occasional Zelda or Mario title that causes the older-generations to entertain the idea of dropping $200-$300 to play a single game (or two).

Unfortunately for me (maybe you?), their inferior hardware (this time being crippled by using tablet-based hardware) is not supported by most modern game engines so once again their platform is likely going to get ignored by developers that are unwilling to invest the extra effort into making a Nintendo port. If a developer does decide to develop for it, they also have to eat the cost of investing additional money to support Nintendo's exclusive features. This means it costs their investors more money to develop for a console that they may not break even on.

I loved my NES, my SNES, my N64, and especially my Gamecube (hell ya!). I, like many of you, grew up on Nintendo and that gameplay history directly affects the genres that I enjoy playing to this very day. However, my Wii collected dust and as a result I decided to hold off on buying a WiiU. Now, here I sit watching the Switch perform a repeat last generation's follies with just 2-3 titles that actually look promising.

As an adult, this is not my idea of fun. Am I alone in this?
 
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Soul_Est

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Feb 12, 2016
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I'll take 720p over stuttering everyday. Unfortunately, the switch doesn't let you decide that either. If it's docked, you're forced to play on a higher resolution. More reasons to wait.

Oh and not being able to transfer save-files to the micro SD card is quite a biggie, too.
You can change the docked resolution in the settings.

This might come off as horribly pessimistic (sorry!!) but as a long time fan of Nintendo, I must admit that I have lost all faith in Nintendo over the years :(

Please excuse me if I come off a little blunt but I just cannot see myself buying into the Nintendo ecosystem anymore. If Nintendo wants to win me back, they really need to release a more powerful living-room console with real hardware (not tablet hardware) that is capable of accepting ports of titles from other game consoles (and playing them at ~1080p30). Also, if Nintendo wants to compete for the living room, it needs to be a far better media companion (streamer, etc etc).

Ever since the Wii, Nintendo seems entirely too focused on making budget friendly SFF-oriented consoles with vastly inferior hardware/OS that rely far too heavily on first party developer support in order to keep them afloat. Without enough developers/publishers that are willing to invest money to make original games for the lowest selling console, all we're seeing so far is a small handful of original titles and a bunch last-gen, indie, or 2D ports from yesteryear.

At their lower price point, unique features aside, perhaps they are targeting kids or maybe low income families instead of the generation that grew up playing Nintendo. If that is the case (not saying that it is), I feel like they have ultimately lost sight of their target audience knowing that the generation that they are trying to appeal to today, is a generation that grew up on their parent's iPads and $1 games. The generation that grew up playing Nintendo has since matured and moved on to the more mature platforms (PS4, XBox, PC) and it's really only the occasional Zelda or Mario title that causes the older-generations to entertain the idea of dropping $200-$300 to play a single game (or two).

Unfortunately for me (maybe you?), their inferior hardware (this time being crippled by using tablet-based hardware) is not supported by most modern game engines so once again their platform is likely going to get ignored by developers that are unwilling to invest the extra effort into making a Nintendo port. If a developer does decide to develop for it, they also have to eat the cost of investing additional money to support Nintendo's exclusive features. This means it costs their investors more money to develop for a console that they may not break even on.

I loved my NES, my SNES, my N64, and especially my Gamecube (hell ya!). I, like many of you, grew up on Nintendo and that gameplay history directly affects the genres that I enjoy playing to this very day. However, my Wii collected dust and as a result I decided to hold off on buying a WiiU. Now, here I sit watching the Switch perform a repeat last generation's follies with just 2-3 titles that actually look promising.

As an adult, this is not my idea of fun. Am I alone in this?
You're not alone. Looking at it from strictly a home console/PC standpoint, the Switch has weak hardware. It's like comparing a gaming laptop and mouse to comparably priced gaming desktop system (computer, monitor, keyboard, mouse, and speakers). You will always get more bang for the buck on the desktop but you cannot play on the go.

I started on a cousin's NES and SNES. Owned a N64, GameBoy Colour, GameBoy Advance (and SP as well), and PSP. Played on a Genesis, PlayStation, PlayStation 2, Dreamcast, GameCube, XBOX, XBOX 360, Wii, PS3, PS4, XBOX One, Wii U, and 3DS. I prefer mobile gaming to stationary gaming as I can immerse myself into it more when I'm relaxed in a comfy chair or bed.

As for game development, the developers could ignore the Joy-Cons's extra features and just develop for the dock switching. Many third-party developers took this approach for the Wii and the Wii U. As for the game engines, they are usually made for current devices, consoles, or PCs running x86 or ARM hardware. My guess is that is what Nintendo is banking on.
 
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iFreilicht

FlexATX Authority
Feb 28, 2015
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Please excuse me if I come off a little blunt but I just cannot see myself buying into the Nintendo ecosystem anymore. If Nintendo wants to win me back, they really need to release a more powerful living-room console with real hardware (not tablet hardware) that is capable of accepting ports of titles from other game consoles (and playing them at ~1080p30).

I don't think so. I believe they are going in the exactly right direction and Sony and Microsoft are the ones who will really struggle. The thing is, with all the faults of every Nintendo console, they still are something that I'm interested in and that many people buy besides having a PC. With home consoles getting ever closer to PCs in terms of hardware and software (architecture, not performance), consoles get more complicated to use and harder to justify. Less and less games come out as console-exclusives because there is very little reason to not port your game to PC now. Heck, these days, if you have a console, it can be worthwhile to buy a PC for all the PC-exclusive indie titles. That's why Sony and MS are pushing so hard on the VR thing, because porting a game from one VR system to another is more complicated than porting a regular (often AAA) game from consoles to PC. Valve is going in hard into the living room, and every party involved is fully aware that they are a threat to standard home consoles.

Nintendo is doing the exact right thing in not competing with any existing device at all, but finding a niche that they can operate in. There is no device like the switch in the PC or smartphone market, you can't build a "Switch-Killer" PC, but you sure can build a "Console-Killer". No tablet you can buy could compete with the switch either, the games that are and will be on the switch won't be ported to Android (even if the Switch is basically running on Android) because most tablets don't have the inputs you need to control those games adequately. The switch is a great console to have no matter what other entertainment devices you own. I have zero incentive to get an Xbox or Playstation ever again, but I sure want a Switch once they've ironed the launch-problems out.

Also, if Nintendo wants to compete for the living room, it needs to be a far better media companion (streamer, etc etc).

I'm not sure about that either. It sounds like a no-brainer in theory, but if you think about it, there is much better hardware to use for entertainment purposes. Even just getting a Steam link or a Chromecast will do much more for you than what will come out from Nintendo, how ever much time they're going to invest in it.
 

IntoxicatedPuma

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The Switch needs alot of work, but I found the important thing it's doing is not the device itself, but the marketing term. People in the gaming industry know very little about hardware and are not forward thinking. I was trying to tell people 2-3 years ago that the PS4 and X1 had to have mid-cycle upgrades and probably would never be "replaced" - only upgraded. They told me I was speaking nonsense and this could never happen. They said "gamers don't want to have to buy a new console every 2-3 years" - apparently didn't consider that this works on mobile all the time and nobody complains. You buy a new phone, old games still work.

Now we have a problem where you mention "mobile" and immediately your game is sent to micro-transaction hell. You cannot make a quality mobile game without HQ telling you to start micro-transactioning the shit out of it. Nintendo was really really smart by repeatedly saying "THIS IS NOT MOBILE, THIS IS A CONSOLE" - the reaction of people in the gaming industry is staggering, they have trouble getting their mind around the idea of quality console type games on a mobile device. While the Switch itself is not revolutionary or advanced, Nintendo's strategy on it has the potential to revolutionize the gaming industry. Think of it like the Steam Machine, the device itself never took off but now consoles are basically turning into gaming PC's.

Even if Nintendo has failed, they finally woke people up that mobile games don't have to be junk, and they are going to rip down the barriers which result in Mobile License and Console / PC license being issued separately for games (every game i have worked on, we couldnt release on mobile because someone else had the license).

This and Microsoft's Universal Windows App are going to be big deals. I know a lot of people don't like the idea of UWP but personally I can't wait for it to be more widely accepted. Hope Switch succeeds too.
 

iFreilicht

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Feb 28, 2015
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Very good points!

This and Microsoft's Universal Windows App are going to be big deals. I know a lot of people don't like the idea of UWP but personally I can't wait for it to be more widely accepted.

Yeah sorry, my next phone probably won't be a Windows Phone. I was very excited about the concept of it as well, but the low adoption of the platform really reduces my choice when it comes to apps and games. There's fuck-all on there, most clients for anything are unofficial or third-party and work badly, the OS overall isn't nice to use and it feels unfinished in general. They had 10% market share for a while in the EU, but didn't manage to let Nokia capitalise on it, they just had to have it for themselves. Now they're back down to 1%. Nobody wants to buy games in the Windows Store, nobody wants to develop for it. MS will have to play out their long breath card again.
 
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IntoxicatedPuma

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Doesn't matter if Windows Phone will be your next or not, UWP also involves Xbox, PC and tablets. Even if the Windows Phone is dead in 3 years, they just created a huge mess for anyone doing UWP apps. If I create Adobe Photoshop app on Windows PC as UWA, it should be able to run on Windows Phone now because of Continuum. If this app is already installed on my phone then it probably also has a mobile touch ready interface available, or I would need two apps. Now is this a mobile license or PC license? Also, Samsung is making their own version of Continuum. I bet others are not far behind. Even if Windows Phone dies, the business environment is going to be very different.
 
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EdZ

Virtual Realist
May 11, 2015
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I don;t think Nintendo can really be credited alone with "high-end portable gaming is possible with a console pricing model ('big ticket' games sold as a unit) rather than a mobile pricing model (microtransactions, small games sold at a budget)". The PSP and PS Vita, while not runaway successes, have shown that you can make high performance portable gaming devices.
 
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IntoxicatedPuma

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True but Sony always had an actual console overshadowing it. Nintendo doesn't which means their AAA titles have nowhere else to go in the future. It won't be games downscaled or feature removed to fit switch, the games will be made specifically for it.