New revision of Ncase M1, when?

[Prizm]

So incorporating Type C right now feels like an interim solution and a half measure, at best, with a limited lifespan and none of the improvements that it's purported to include.

Does that seem worth it?

I'm just a layperson but it seems worth it to me, given that the M1 is updated somewhat frequently anyway (5 revisions in 5-6 years?). Unless there is a significant cost to adding a Type-C port, why not update it in the meantime?
It could still be years before motherboards change the USB header. And even when a new header comes out, it could take 1-2 years before all motherboard manufacturer's switch over anyway, which gives a fair amount of time to consider a revision. The M1 could have supported basic front USB C in the meantime and made some extra sales from its inclusion.

Personally, I like how there are a couple cases now with front USB A and C ports.

 

[Necere]

I'm just a layperson but it seems worth it to me, given that the M1 is updated somewhat frequently anyway (5 revisions in 5-6 years?). Unless there is a significant cost to adding a Type-C port, why not update it in the meantime?
It could still be years before motherboards change the USB header. And even when a new header comes out, it could take 1-2 years before all motherboard manufacturer's switch over anyway, which gives a fair amount of time to consider a revision. The M1 could have supported basic front USB C in the meantime and made some extra sales from its inclusion.

Personally, I like how there are a couple cases now with front USB A and C ports.

But would you want to give up the current two Gen 1 Type A's for a single Type C? Because that's what using the 19pin header for Type C means.

 

[Necere]

I think as a fellow owner my big thing would be to have the side panel ventilation run farther down. Like the size of what an acrylic window would be. This way the gpu would have more air. Im sure a lot of people would upgrade their panel if this was an option.

This is on the table for V6, but it depends whether it introduces any manufacturing or strength issues.

Any possibility of a half vented / half window side panel like the Cerberus used to have? I'd love to have a window, but don't want to sacrifice ventilation. Having a window around the GPU while still having the vented top half would be perfect.

A GPU-only window isn't likely something we'll add. It'd be quite narrow, and having three different side panel options complicates things from an inventory management perspective.

 

[imode]

This is on the table for V6, but it depends whether it introduces any manufacturing or strength issues.

Perhaps this is a little radical of a change, but if you could position the panel peg/clip connectors in a more symmetrical location, you could possibly just rotate an existing panel 180 degrees moving the ventholes to the bottom. Although this would completely break side panel compatibility for all previous versions.

 

[Necere]

Perhaps this is a little radical of a change, but if you could position the panel peg/clip connectors in a more symmetrical location, you could possibly just rotate an existing panel 180 degrees moving the ventholes to the bottom. Although this would completely break side panel compatibility for all previous versions.

Nope. You need to have clips on both the vertical and horizontal axes to properly stabilize the panels, and there isn't any place the vertical clips can be that would allow for symmetrical mounting.

I've actually decided to finally break backward compatibility on the panels for V6 in order to deal with some longstanding issues, like improving support for GPUs with tall PCBs.

 

[chx]

Let's talk USB C. I share @Necere 's frustration and but want to expand on it and explain why front page USB C makes very little sense for the foreseeable future. My USB C explanation is at https://superuser.com/a/1200112/41259 you might want to read it.

So let's explore why would you want a USB C on the front of your computer, what would you plug in there?

1. USB PD aka high(er) wattage charging. This is indeed a legit use, possibly the only one. Powering a car charger equivalent off the 12V line of the PSU would make a hell lot more sense though than running it through the motherboard if a charging port is what we want.
   
2. Some sort of storage device. There's no way you need a 10 gbit/s port here unless you are connecting a thing with an NVMe SSD in it, it will not be able to saturate the 5gbit/s USB 3.0 aka 3.1 Gen 1 connection (yes, I know USB 3.0 tops out around 450 MB/s whereas SATA SSDs can go as fast as 550MB/s. hush.). So this is legit as well but NVMe SSD to USB enclosures are quite rare, Gen 2 even more so. Your USB key or your phone most certainly will not hit the USB 3.0 walls. I do not think laptops support such direct data transfers, Thunderbolt defines a network-over-Thunderbolt option but just plugging a USB C cable into a PC and a laptop won't make data transfer happen.
3. Speaking of Thunderbolt, that'd be swell, connecting laptops, even faster NVMe SSDs possibly more than one (Highpoint 6661A, anyone?) etc. You would need a Thunderbolt 3 extender which doesn't exist currently. Given the complexity of such a device (it'd be essentially a portless Thunderbolt dock with a Thunderbolt controller in it), it'd be a hundred bucks at least if not more. I can see it'd be so popular people would camp in front of their local computer store the night before they start selling it.
4. Some sort of display device. Why on earth would you connect a monitor to the front??
5. VirtualLink for a VR headset. Yeah, that'd make sense, no question. However VirtualLink alternate mode is very new, it was announced last summer and it repurposed four previously USB 2.0 pins for two high speed lanes meaning all previous cables are incompatible and most certainly the current front connector is incompatible since it only defined a single D- D+ pair. Also, Intel IGP and VR? Or even AMD APU and VR? Not going to happen this year or the next -- even most RTX 2060 cards do not have VirtualLink, so can you imagine when will a motherboard GPU catch up with the ... 2070? A decade? More? The Vega 11 is on par with the GTX 470 from 2010... So you'd need video card manufacturers define a front connector standard and deploy it on their video cards. The earliest that can possibly happen is next year but I am not holding my breath.

So this is why you don't see the USB C front connector spreading like wildfire: there's extremely little use for it.

 

[tinyitx]

Sometimes, it is not a ''I need an USB type C'' situation but a ''I just want one''. This is from a buyer's perspective.

Similarly, from a case manufacturer's perspective, he provides one so that his case stands out from the competitors. ''Buy my case which has an USB Type C while others have not''. A marketing psychological gimmick?

I think, case manufacturers may be wise to just follow the direction of the motherboard manufacturers. When a motherboard contains an USB Type C connector, case manufacturers will just follow suit. That is simply following the target customer group. Let's say. a higher end ITX motherboard (eg Asus Z390i Gaming) has an USB 3.1 Gen 2 connector while a lower end one (eg Asus H310i Plus) hasn't, then if you are selling a higher end case aimed at users of a higher end ITX motherboard, it is better to provide one?

 

[gotcha43]

Nope. You need to have clips on both the vertical and horizontal axes to properly stabilize the panels, and there isn't any place the vertical clips can be that would allow for symmetrical mounting.

I've actually decided to finally break backward compatibility on the panels for V6 in order to deal with some longstanding issues, like improving support for GPUs with tall PCBs.

Hey,
as I said in Dan's C4-Thread, a sandblasted finish for your Panels would be great, even for extra Money, if Lian Li can offer such processes.
That brushed finish is no Option for me and a lot of customers would also love to have a less Fingerprint sensitive finish. New Panels without backward compatibility would be a great step to this.

 

[Bioforce]

Nope. You need to have clips on both the vertical and horizontal axes to properly stabilize the panels, and there isn't any place the vertical clips can be that would allow for symmetrical mounting.

I've actually decided to finally break backward compatibility on the panels for V6 in order to deal with some longstanding issues, like improving support for GPUs with tall PCBs.

Both this as well as the idea of a fully vented panel sound like excellent improvements, assuming no structural issues as you mentioned. Being fully vented would offer enough visibility to satisfy my desire to see inside the case while simultaneously not compromising cooling potential. As for allowing taller PCB's, one of the M1's biggest appeals is it's high compatibility despite it's small size, so it makes a lot of sense to me to further emphasize that by maximizing GPU compatibility especially with how large GPU's have been becoming lately.

 

[SirJack]

Nope. You need to have clips on both the vertical and horizontal axes to properly stabilize the panels, and there isn't any place the vertical clips can be that would allow for symmetrical mounting.

I've actually decided to finally break backward compatibility on the panels for V6 in order to deal with some longstanding issues, like improving support for GPUs with tall PCBs.

That is nice to hear would that increase cpu cooler clearance as well?. Also, would the v5 panels be back in stock on sfflab soon? I just found out I need an odd drive for work....

 

[smitty2k1]

Nope. You need to have clips on both the vertical and horizontal axes to properly stabilize the panels, and there isn't any place the vertical clips can be that would allow for symmetrical mounting.

I've actually decided to finally break backward compatibility on the panels for V6 in order to deal with some longstanding issues, like improving support for GPUs with tall PCBs.

I suggest calling it an NCASE M2 if it breaks backwards compatibility

 

[Necere]

That is nice to hear would that increase cpu cooler clearance as well?. Also, would the v5 panels be back in stock on sfflab soon? I just found out I need an odd drive for work....

Exterior dimensions aren't changing, so cooler clearance remains the same.

W360 isn't planning to restock any V5 panels.

I suggest calling it an NCASE M2 if it breaks backwards compatibility

Nah, the changes are too minor for a completely new model name.

 

[SirJack]

W360 isn't planning to restock any V5 panels.

That sucks I won't even dare to CNC cut mine at this point. Any particular reason? Let us know if he changes his mind.

 

[chx]

Similarly, from a case manufacturer's perspective, he provides one so that his case stands out from the competitors. ''Buy my case which has an USB Type C while others have not''. A marketing psychological gimmick?

Or a support nightmare? VirtualLink won't work, Thunderbolt won't work, very few motherboards implement USB PD so it won't fast charge your phone.

 

[Revenant]

If exterior dimensions aren't changing, then I would like to see an option for fully vented panels left and right for extreme cooling situations. Also, at least the V2.0 M1 is having minor compatibility problems with some of the Asus Z390-I boards.

If you're going to change the case dimensions ever, I would love to see an MATX version with the same exterior design and general interior layout, just supersized to MATX levels. Greedy as this is, it's so I can run SLI or more likely, a 10G Ethernet card. Of course at that point, it's not really the M1 anymore...

 

[Bioforce]

If you're going to change the case dimensions ever, I would love to see an MATX version with the same exterior design and general interior layout, just supersized to MATX levels. Greedy as this is, it's so I can run SLI or more likely, a 10G Ethernet card. Of course at that point, it's not really the M1 anymore...

If you want an MATX sized M1, you might as well just get a Cerberus. The whole point of the original cerberus was to be an SFF MATX enclosure.

 

[Brude27]

W360 isn't planning to restock any V5 panels.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo...

That's super disappointing considering I just got my M1! I really hope @Wahaha360 changes his mind! I planned on getting a whole black set to switch between with my Silver M1...

 

[Engr62]

W360 isn't planning to restock any V5 panels.

Whew! I'm glad I ordered my set of black panels for my silver M1 v4 at the end of last year. I really hate to hear of this policy change (i.e., not remaining backward compatible).

 

[Revenant]

W360 isn't planning to restock any V5 panels.

.

I'm sad now...

 

[VegetableStu]

I think, case manufacturers may be wise to just follow the direction of the motherboard manufacturers. When a motherboard contains an USB Type C connector, case manufacturers will just follow suit. That is simply following the target customer group. Let's say. a higher end ITX motherboard (eg Asus Z390i Gaming) has an USB 3.1 Gen 2 connector while a lower end one (eg Asus H310i Plus) hasn't, then if you are selling a higher end case aimed at users of a higher end ITX motherboard, it is better to provide one?

just to briefly go back to this tangent: silverstone might be releasing their CP14 USB3 Gen 1 to Gen 2 header forward adapter. it'll probably carry over the motherboard header's rated speeds (up to USB3 1x1 speeds per port) and isn't USB PD capable

not sure if it's worth the convenience of using existing USB C to C cables, but if I were in that situation I'd definitely get one for the interim