Completed MJOLNIR: The minimalistic – but not boring – 9.7L Case

[Van0]

congrats on the Kickstarter! I've got a Sentry 2.0 on the way shortly so no backing from me this time but if there's a Mjolnir 2.0 in a couple of years time, I'm on board.

 

[AlexTzone]

Well done on the successful campaign, Alex. I've always been a supporter of the case, even gave you some advice and critique regarding one of the early trailers a long time a go on Reddit (which you handled very well and took on board). I won't be backing the Kickstarter since I've settled down with a dual 240mm rad NCase, but I wish your product all the success it deserves.

Thank you very much, you're support means a lot! Backing or not, I'm still very grateful for you help thus far !

Nicely done Alex! Well earned.

Thanks so much!!

Congratulations on the backing! Ignore those idiots on reddit complaining about the price, some people just can’t accept they’re not the target market for every product.

I’d like to get 2 Mjolnir S with the dual panel sets for both, is there a way to get a discount for that like there is with the Duo/Trinity options?

Thanks a lot man! I'm kind of used to getting bashed for the price on Reddit nowadays ? We have to be careful with discounts, especially since we're adding stretch goals out of our own pocket. The duo/trinity are very limited so it's a bit easier to handle. You can get a MJOLNIR S + 2X Panel Sets now and then we can add another one after the campaign (using transferwise or something of that nature)

@AlexTzone

first of all, congratulations!

I want to know when you will close it? I’m still deciding... because I want to buy the 2nd 02 panel for top panel.

Thank you Danny! We are already past it, so everybody backing will receive 1 additional O2 panel (2 in total, together with the included one) ?

What about manipulations with price because of mistery taxes, vat in other countries?
Case shipping is more then 50% price of case.

Okay let's take MJOLNIR S to Germany as example:

- Shipping: about $10

- VAT (25%): 0.25*299 = roughly $75

- Total = about $85

So the huge majority of the shipping cost consists of VAT. We could leave this out, but that would mean that the case would get stuck in customs until you pay that VAT amount. Even if we talk about countries outside of the EU, the cases will get stuck in customs until you pay the import fees (import VAT or sales tax), this will also add a "handling fee" to the total cost. This way all costs are paid straight up in the cheapest and most convenient way possible. Did that clear things up?

congrats on the Kickstarter! I've got a Sentry 2.0 on the way shortly so no backing from me this time but if there's a Mjolnir 2.0 in a couple of years time, I'm on board.

Thanks a lot, really appreciate it! Hope you're happy with your case, Dr Zaber sure knows what he's doing!

 

[Goatee]

Okay let's take MJOLNIR S to Germany as example:

- Shipping: about $10

- VAT (25%): 0.25*299 = roughly $75

- Total = about $85

So the huge majority of the shipping cost consists of VAT. We could leave this out, but that would mean that the case would get stuck in customs until you pay that VAT amount. Even if we talk about countries outside of the EU, the cases will get stuck in customs until you pay the import fees (import VAT or sales tax), this will also add a "handling fee" to the total cost. This way all costs are paid straight up in the cheapest and most convenient way possible. Did that clear things up?

I know you say this in the kickstarter:

"below prices are converted to SEK (Swedish krona) in the actual rewards, this is because we're registered in Sweden. Also, shipping includes import fees & sales tax / VAT."

But perhaps you could create a FAQ and stick some calculated examples in?

Personally I really like this approach, but I also assume that if people are used to importing from china then they don't normally get this "service" and local taxes (in some big markets like the US) are sometimes quite a bit less than 25%.

 

[AlexTzone]

I know you say this in the kickstarter:

"below prices are converted to SEK (Swedish krona) in the actual rewards, this is because we're registered in Sweden. Also, shipping includes import fees & sales tax / VAT."

But perhaps you could create a FAQ and stick some calculated examples in?

Personally I really like this approach, but I also assume that if people are used to importing from china then they don't normally get this "service" and local taxes (in some big markets like the US) are sometimes quite a bit less than 25%.

Great idea! I'll make sure to add those! We used the % from each specific country to calculate these things

 

[Goatee]

Great idea! I'll make sure to add those! We used the % from each specific country to calculate these things

Cool, so as im in the UK and VAT is 20% here rather than 25% in Sweden, I will only pay 20%? Or have I misunderstood?

 

[AlexTzone]

Cool, so as im in the UK and VAT is 20% here rather than 25% in Sweden, I will only pay 20%? Or have I misunderstood?

Unfortunately it's still 25%. This is unless we sell over 30.000 euro to the UK, then EU law says that we can use 20%.

Edit: to UK it's actually a minimum of EUR 97 382.

 

[dKenGuru]

So the huge majority of the shipping cost consists of VAT. We could leave this out, but that would mean that the case would get stuck in customs until you pay that VAT amount. Even if we talk about countries outside of the EU, the cases will get stuck in customs until you pay the import fees (import VAT or sales tax), this will also add a "handling fee" to the total cost. This way all costs are paid straight up in the cheapest and most convenient way possible. Did that clear things up?

On youtube comments I already disproved it.

Because you confuse customs rules for commercial and individual person.

VAT paid if you order something inside your country or union (EU, EAC). If you ship something outside country or union - vat always exclude for individual person. And customs duties are regulated by local country law.
For example, for Russia custom limit is 500 euro in month. In 2020 it will be 200 euro for one parcel. Individual person can order items for 500 euro for own use without pay any customs duty.
If parcel(s) will be more then 500 euro, I will pay +30% of amount over this 500 euro. It's all.

VAT payed only by commercial company for their import goods.

As far I remember in US individual customs limit is 700-800 usd in 30 days.

So, you take money for shipping from people for nothing.

 

[AlexTzone]

On youtube comments I already disproved it.

Because you confuse customs rules for commercial and individual person.

VAT paid if you order something inside your country or union (EU, EAC). If you ship something outside country or union - vat always exclude for individual person. And customs duties are regulated by local country law.
Foe example, for Russia custom limit is 500 euro in month. In 2020 it will be 200 euro for one parcel. Individual person can order items for 500 euro for own use without pay any customs duty.
If parcel(s) will be more then 500 euro, I will pay +30% of amount over this 500 euro. It's all.

VAT payed only by commercial company for their import goods.

As far I remember in US individual customs limit is 700-800 usd in 30 days.

So, you take money for shipping from people for nothing.

Look in order to disprove it you must show me real official link that state that individuals in Russia don't pay import-VAT when importing things. For example, if I buy something from China for $100, Swedish customs send an invoice for $25 (regardless if I'm a company or individual). It's the same for the whole EU, but the VAT rates differ.

Sometimes people who import things into EU don't pay import-VAT themselves, but that's because it's been pre-paid using DDP shipping to their country.

 

[dKenGuru]

For example, if I buy something from China for $100, Swedish customs send an invoice for $25 (regardless if I'm a company or individual). It's the same for the whole EU, but the VAT rates differ.

Because individual person customs limit in EU - 45 euro for one parcel.
But in Russia this limit is 500 euro.
In USA - 800 usd.
It is NOT VAT/TAX.

Федеральная таможенная служба

customs.ru

Таможенные пошлины, налоги не уплачиваются при условии, что общая таможенная стоимость товаров, пересланных в международных почтовых отправлениях в адрес одного получателя – физического лица в течение календарного месяца, не превышает сумму, эквивалентную 500 евро, а вес брутто международного почтового отправления не превышает 31 килограмма.

I use international mail forwarder from USA to my country

Customs

''

en.polexp.com

From 1 January 2020 - http://customs.ru/fiz/mezhdunarodny...nyx-pochtovyx-otpravleniyax-ili-perevozchikom

 

[AlexTzone]

Because individual person customs limit in EU - 45 euro for one parcel.
But in Russia this limit is 500 euro.
In USA - 800 usd.
It is NOT VAT/TAX.

Федеральная таможенная служба

customs.ru

I use international mail forwarder from USA to my country

Customs

''

en.polexp.com

From 1 January 2020 - http://customs.ru/fiz/mezhdunarodny...nyx-pochtovyx-otpravleniyax-ili-perevozchikom

Buying something for $1 from outside of EU will add VAT to it once it enters the union. The above link talks about taxes, but I need to see the words VAT/Value added tax in either English or Russian. See here: https://www.vanrhijnlegal.com/vat-in-russia/

Import into Russia
In accordance with Article 146 point 4 the import of goods into Russia or into territories under Russian jurisdiction is also marked as an activity, which is subject to VAT. The details of levying VAT upon import are laid down in Article 151 of the Tax Code. VAT is levied on almost all import into Russia, there are, however, exceptions. Like, for example, the import of certian medical equipment into Russia (Article 150 point 2 Tax Code).

 

[dKenGuru]

It is for organisations and individual entrepreneurs. Not for individual person.

In Russia Value Added Tax or VAT (Налог на Добавленную Стоимость or НДС in Russian) has to be paid by organisations and individual entrepreneurs that apply the General Taxation System in Russia.

Please hire good translator or use google translate and visit links in my previous post.

You are not doing any bussines in Russian and don't must pay any VAT. You just ship to me goods. Pay VAT only for your country.

 

[MattyKHZ]

This is all down to Sweden and it’s VAT regulations. As Thor Zone is Swedish, their rate of 25% applies. Despite being in the UK because I am buying from Sweden, I pay 25% not 20% that UK charges. If Thor Zone were a massive company with sales to countries over the quota limits, they could charge VAT at the rate of the cust9mer country but that will not happen small scale.

I can but items in Germany cheaper than the UK, VAT will be charged at UK rate rather than German rate on those websites so guess this is because they sell enough quota wise but how I am to know. I don’t get the free shipping like a German would but the savings on product cost including shipping usually outweigh the shipping charge.

If it was simpler imagine if Thor Zone imported all cases into Sweden, paid VAT on manufacturing costs of item, then shipped from Sweden all around the world applying Sweden VAT rate of selling price, that would then be their margin. VAT would obviously not be charged to non EU countries and then customs can handle each item in non EU countries and take their share if they see fit.

That example may work out cheaper for some, but when you take into account the shipping backwards and forwards and possible storage and delays would it be worth it?

Never bought a SFF other than a shuttle until now so do not know how SFF Lab and other Kickstarter style sales usually follow. Only bought a Hiby DAP through Kickstarter before and that was one price to all with lottery of customs taking their share on whatever declared value Hiby gave. Difference being Chinese company purchased from and shipped from that country where as this is a Swedish company shipped from China.

 

[MattyKHZ]

Not sure if this clears it up, apparently from Jan 2020 Tax free limit is 200 EUR even by post to Russia

Federal customs service

eng.customs.ru

 

[dKenGuru]

Not sure if this clears it up, apparently from Jan 2020 Tax free limit is 200 EUR even by post to Russia

Federal customs service

eng.customs.ru

I already post it.
And customs duty will be +15% for amount over 200 euro. It is around €20 from this case parcel. So, why $200 shipping?
Wii be fanny, people already payed 200 dollars, but local customs will ask pay more 20, because of limit.

 

[MattyKHZ]

But you stated 500 EUR many times when it is actually 200 EUR which you only mentioned once, then claimed you only pay on the amount over, and did not supply anything backing this up. I know I have a personal allowance when travelling and anything over get charged at full cost not amount over here in the UK. Sadly postal amounts are different with anything over £18 ish getting taxed here.

It would help your case to provide the required links to Alex. My link covers 200 EUR limit but states noth8ng about any amount over 200 EUR.

This is all giving a headache to Thor Zone i am sure.

We may have a new government in UK by the time this is shipped and our taxes could change between pledge and delivery.

Far simpler would have been to sell on Kickstarter at whatever price including VAT requirements for a Swedish company plus shipping and leave VAT off for those countries that do not comply, and also based on individual limits that means different rules apply to cheaper pledges compared to those costing more.

 

[AlexTzone]

I already post it.
And customs duty will be +15% for amount over 200 euro. It is around €20 from this case parcel. So, why $200 shipping?
Wii be fanny, people already payed 200 dollars, but local customs will ask pay more 20, because of limit.

By the end of the day, if we are wrong, this money is reserved strictly for shipping. And if it's cheaper like you say, then we will simply refund the difference.

 

[MattyKHZ]

Actually if there is a 200EUR allowance then perhaps it would be best to just charge shipping to Russia, declare item at value in $ of pledge and let Russia handle the Tax situation based on pledged amount and their rules, just like any other non EU country.

 

[dKenGuru]

But you stated 500 EUR many times when it is actually 200 EUR

Because until 31 of December it is still 500 euro. After - 200.
Now - 500 euro and 31 kg in month (for total parcel amount). For example - parcel 600 euro - 600-500=100. 100+30%=30. Customs duty will be 30 euro.
After - 200 euro and 31 kg for one parcel (no parcel amount limit). For example - parcel 300 euro - 300-200=100. 100+15%=15. Customs duty will be 15 euro.


Same situation and for US and other countries, outside EU. This customs question not only with my country. All people on Kickstarter pledged more then needed.

 

[gwertheim]

You guys do understand that VAT, duties, taxes and the geopolitical situation is way beyond the control of @AlexTzone

I live in Canada and I got nailed to with duties of almost $100 USD when I got my ghost case. I knew that i'd get nailed, just didn't know how bad

Duties are unpredictable and apart of global trade and beyond anyone's control and cannot be predicted.

Duties should always be factored in when you back a Kickstarter. There is no use complaining about something beyond Alex's control.

 

[AlexTzone]

Because until 31 of December it is still 500 euro. After - 200.
Now - 500 euro and 31 kg in month (for total parcel amount). For example - parcel 600 euro - 600-500=100. 100+30%=30. Customs duty will be 30 euro.
After - 200 euro and 31 kg for one parcel (no parcel amount limit). For example - parcel 300 euro - 300-200=100. 100+15%=15. Customs duty will be 15 euro.


Same situation and for US and other countries, outside EU. This customs question not only with my country. All people on Kickstarter pledged more then needed.

I think you may be mixing VAT / Sales Tax (or Import VAT / import Sales Tax) with customs duties (like tariffs). They are not the same ?