![:\](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7 "Unsure :\")
Thanks a lot friend, happy to make the case better for you and thanks for all the help.This is good either way. glad to know my ftw3 1080 ti will fit with aio and I am currently looking at Raijintek orcus 120mm aio. Also glad to know Corsair Veangence Pro RGB ram will also fit.
Does anybody have a ftw3 3D model? Would really like to confirm the ftw3 compatibility. You can choose either the Glass panel version or Metal panel version @AlexTzone
TLDR Version:
- Great step forward, love the direction
- Recessed GPU shroud! Otherwise the "flap" will be extra obvious
- All vented panels need more holes, all the way to edge if possible (Glass panels too, if possible)
- The small feet of the case means that while the vented bottom is good, the table surface is now the equivalent of the closed cover
Flat Rear Panel & Recessed GPU Bracket
I love the new flush design of the rear panel (I didn't notice the previous one wasn't until you pointed it out)
But now that you have, I like it a lot. It's great you can expand the length without significant impact on the footprint
However, I have concerns over how the GPU is and will be mounted.
In most cases, there is a flap out of the GPU bracket so that the pcie bracket can be screwed in
However, that would mean you have 5~10 mm of metal jutting out the back. Not a good look in my opinion
As mentioned earlier, if you have a recessed GPU mount that would provide an advantage over a lot of competing SFF cases since most designs implement "the flap". This would obviously reduce the GPU tolerance from 319 mm to 309 mm (ish) however there are not many cards that lie in the 310-319 mm range. For the 1080Ti cards, this seens to be 4 of them (KFA2 HOF, Colorful Vulcan X, and PNY XLR8)
and honestly, they aren't even 2-slot cards so they wouldn't have fit anyway.
The popular Openshroud GPU for the 2-slot Pascal 1080Ti generation are 300 mm (EVGA), 290 mm (MSI). and therefore implementing a recessed GPU shroud has near to 0 impact on GPU compatibility but proviodes a premium feature that is not offered by competing products.
As a side note, I understand that you aren't offering any PCIe shields or any options for bifurcation (which just to be clear, is totally not necessary for this case) and therefore there are literally no cards that are single slot width, and so I question what this piece is for, it only makes it difficult to connect the display adaptors (especially DP). I would say it is safe to assume that all cards going into this case will be a 2-slot card, and so this middle pole seems unneccesary to me.
Great Holes, but I would like more
I LOVE the vented panels, and the new bottom panel design, this would give the case a chance to breath and is a fantastic step forward into a viable product.The side panels are clearly to keep the GPU, and the CPU cooler, and PSU fed with air. So I would say it is important to think about the language and functionality.
On the GPU side, there are vents running almost across the case, but if the drilling tolerances allow for it, I believe there need to be more of them. Blower cards tend to only have one intake vent, so are completely accounted for.
From my rough ruler attached onto my monitor, I think I see about 30 mm of solid aluminium from the left to the first whole. Where as the cards likes of the EVGA have the tip of the left most fan at ~10 mm for a big card like the FTW or ~20 mm for a RTX founders edition. Similarly in the vertical direction, the Fans extend far beyond the pcie connector for the EVGA card, and the up to the pcie bracket for the RTX FE. My strict belief is that is that a fan should have holes over it completely, Air should be allowed to go straight from the outside into the blades without having to turn corners. This even more important for the inverted orientation since the GPU will be lower down relative to the vents since the GPU is not centered in the Y direction.
This also extends to the ventiliation of the glass panels, the holes should really be allowed to extend as much as the tolerances allow for it. (with glass, I worry about the structural integrety, so I will let you tell me that the limits are). We obviously don't want side panels that will shatter if you press upon them.
Fans have nearly no airflow through the center (due to the hub being there) and so it is far more important to have good ventilation off the sides of the radiator than the center. As far as I can see fron the isometric renders, the vents probably only go over ~20% of the AIO area.
To sum it up, the vents in the side panel need to go all the way to the edge as far as it would allow for at your manufacturer.
The table is your new closed off bottom panel
I really think you need at least 20 mm of space between a hard surface and an intake/exhaust for air to have a chance to escape. Given the miniscule feet on this case, I seriously question the viability of the standard orientation. Having said that, I am not opposed to the feet as they are now, it is just unrealistic to expect any heat exhaust or good intake from the bottom of this case. Venting the bottom chamber is good, but without feet height, the table becomes the equivalent of a closed panel.
I would personally be tempted to put the new bottom panel on the top, It's just a little bit weird to have a very obvious 8-pack on the top of the computer, so I wonder if it can be mounted "upside down" where the filter is on the top and the metal is on the inside. This would look sleeker and would provide adequate airflow to the AIO and an exhaust route for the GPU heat.
Assuming that the panels that come with the case are the following:
- 2 x Glass side panels (with even bigger cutouts)
- 2 x Solid side panels (with more holes as described in my previous post)
- 1 x Bottom panel with Meshing
- 1 x Solid Top panel (with more holes as described in my previous post)
- 1 x Glass Top panel (assumed to be without cutouts, but hopefully you will be able to put cuts into it)
Then I could imagine that these would be the "sensible" layouts. If @AlexTzone is willing, I was wondering if you could see if these are possible (and maybe a render
Performance Mode
Sides Panel: 2x Glass panels
Top Panel: Bottom panel with the meshing outside the case (metal frame in the interior)
Bottom Panel: Solid Top panel
Internal: Inverted layout
Based on the current rendering, even with the additional holes, I think the cutout glass panels are more breathable due to having bigger holes. If you can make them bigger in the glass, the difference would be even greater. Inverted internal layout is the only layout that makes sense for heat exhaust (watercooler) or fresh air intake (aircooler)
Skandanavian Mode (aka HotBox Mode)
Side Panel: 2x Solid Panel
Bottom Panel: Bottom Panel with the meshing inside the case
Top Panel: Solid Top Panel
Internal: Inverted layout
This is a looks focused layout, but since the case is likely not to be able to breathe through the bottom since the feet are so short, the same theory as above applies (heat exhaust for watercooler, or fresh intake for aircooling). PSUs are quite good nowadays and do not require much airflow and are quiet anyway under light loads.
Showpiece Mode (aka HotBox 2.0)
Side Panel: 2x Glass panels
Bottom Panel: Bottom Panel with meshing inside the case
Top Panel: Glass top panel
Internals: Standard layout
Extra: 4x bottle caps, or extra rubber feet, or something to lift the case up
Honestly, with a solid top glass panel, even if the sides have a gap, there is no chance that the 120 mm AIO or the GPU is going to be able to exhaust the heat out of the top, and so you will be probably forced to have the internals in the standard layout so the radiator is on the bottom. However since the bottom is so close to the table surface, they also have no chance of exhausting heat from the bottom either. To avoid a runaway thermal situation the only solution is to sneak something like 2 really fat pens or 4 bottle caps underneath the chassis to lift it off the table surface first.
Alternatively I would lay the case vertically (either on the face and have all the cables coming out messily out the top, or conjure some kind of feet on the motherboard i/o side). and that way all the panels become "Side panels" and the radiator and GPU can exhaust out all their heat with ease through the "bottom" that is now also a side.
I can believe that for thin steel, but this is fairly thick aluminium, the cutout should be stable enough, it is similar to the motherboard I/O.
@AlexTzone
Also, you may have already thought of this already, but just wanted to make sure. Regardless of whether you don't change the GPU mounting or go for a recessed GPU mount, since you have a thick aluminum chassis, it is probably well worth considering extending the cutout lengthwise. You see, the standard PCIe bracket thickness in most chassis is not wide enough to accomodate the whole display port adaptor and the black plastic part overhands onto the thin steel part. Since the Steel is thin, this doesn't impact the connection onto the GPU. However I can foresee that with the thick aluminium chassis, if the display port connector collided into the chassis in a similar fashion, the connector probably won't be able to make connection with the port itself. If this is the case, this would be considered a serious design flaw :X
@AlexTzone Might I suggest taking a page from the Louqe ghost in this matter. http://www.louqe.com/img/img/product/y10b.png If you look at the GPU side, it is just a single opening. The "flap" is missing due to an internal mounting mechanism. (notice the screw right above the GPU opening! - there is an internal plate that screws onto this. I can provide better pictures if needed)
This update was an epic one. I like what you did with the bottom opening (making it modular as well) as well as expanding it slightly and pushing the rear panel out. However, I don't agree with expanding the case 1cm+ more, like another user has suggested - would be directly against SFF as I feel you've been more than generous with accommodating community needs
Regarding the flap, we actually took care of this point in the Internal frame update (it will be posted today or tomorrow).For_science//
Can not tolerance be applied so that the port is centered? Than i agree
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How about changing design of the vents?
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The problem is no longer feels like a young, sexy cheetah and looks overweight.
old - 12.4 : 20.3 => 61%
new - 13.1 : 21 => 62.3%
extra X H - 13.1 : 21.5 => 61% Almost the same ratio as old
It is important to maintain the identity of the sff case. But I think that delicate aesthetics is also important for this project.
btw :
Only the pillars in the front part became thick. What do you think when compared to external thickness?
Are you planning to make more changes?
I would recommend syncing the entire ratio with the old one.
It was a good idea to have the same pillar and external thickness
This community has helped us make some important changes to the initial design, without changing to much of the aesthetics. I'm happy to say that MJOLNIR I is complete now and is ready for the launch Will post an update on the new internal frame today or tomorrow. BUT, this should not be an excuse to launch the case if it's not finished. Quite contrary, we have been working on MJOLNIR I with you guys for quite some time now and I really feel that the design has been finalized and will offer something very special to the SFF community. One last design update today or tomorrow on the new internal frame and then I feel that we're ready for the next step.
(Still haven't received the Glass Panels though).
And NO, the frame will not be color red, green, blue and yellow Hey guys, this time we have 2 separate updates!
Update 1 - Internal frame (Prototype)
Finally received all remaining parts of the internal frame, really happy with the quality. Everything fit together nicely and the frame felt very sturdy (I know some of you had concerns regarding this). My only concern is complexity and cable management; while putting it together was easy it can be made even easier without sacrificing on quality or sturdiness, this will also greatly help cable management as there are less obstructions. But before we get down to the new internal frame redesign, lets enjoy some prototype pics
Update 2 - Internal frame (Redesign)
While the prototype is exciting and all, this next update is far more important as it represents the final product. Here is a list of improvements based on our own evaluation of the current internal frame, 120mm AIO compatibility and lots of things that you guys have pointed out:
- Fewer parts (12 instead of 24), arguably more stable design than the initial one.
- Better cable management (less obstruction due to less parts).
- Cutout that allows airflow to reach the M.2 drive located on the back of the MOBO.
- New GPU mounting system.
- Wider openings for the GPU bracket to allow for easier DisplayPort connectivity.
- Magnetic RGBW strips instead of tape for easier disassembly and less residue.
Illustrating above points we get this:
I think this new design will be much easier to work with, I also feel that MJOLNIR I is now complete and ready to be produced. Let me know what you guys think
Best,
Alex
. But before I get all critical, I just wanted to say that I am really excited about what you are doing and I hope my suggestions only improve the case further -thumbs up-.
Love the changes man, especially the motherboard cut out. You guys really are listening to feedback quite a lot, and I really think you've got quite the case on your hands. Good to see constant improvements. Are you guys planning to sell this just through your website after the kickstarter launch? Or will you be expanding to online stores like Newegg/Amazon as well?Hey guys, this time we have 2 separate updates!
Update 1 - Internal frame (Prototype)
Finally received all remaining parts of the internal frame, really happy with the quality. Everything fit together nicely and the frame felt very sturdy (I know some of you had concerns regarding this). My only concern is complexity and cable management; while putting it together was easy it can be made even easier without sacrificing on quality or sturdiness, this will also greatly help cable management as there are less obstructions. But before we get down to the new internal frame redesign, lets enjoy some prototype pics
Update 2 - Internal frame (Redesign)
While the prototype is exciting and all, this next update is far more important as it represents the final product. Here is a list of improvements based on our own evaluation of the current internal frame, 120mm AIO compatibility and lots of things that you guys have pointed out:
- Fewer parts (12 instead of 24), arguably more stable design than the initial one.
- Better cable management (less obstruction due to less parts).
- Cutout that allows airflow to reach the M.2 drive located on the back of the MOBO.
- New GPU mounting system.
- Wider openings for the GPU bracket to allow for easier DisplayPort connectivity.
- Magnetic RGBW strips instead of tape for easier disassembly and less residue.
Illustrating above points we get this:
I think this new design will be much easier to work with, I also feel that MJOLNIR I is now complete and ready to be produced. Let me know what you guys think
Best,
Alex
I think the issue with a carry hand is it doesn't really suit the aesthetic of the case. Unless they made a gnarled handle that just sticks vertically out the top like a Hammer grip
I got my critical glasses on and studied everything for a while and I am glad to say that I only found a few things to point out
Looking down below after typing it all out, there really isn't much that I can suggest to change
Suggestion - Rail system, nice! Extra holes for extra options without compromise?
I finally worked out why I like your designs so much, it reminds me of Streacom cases. The bars in your new render are reminiscent of the rail system of the DA2 and I like them a lot. Having said that, I was wondering if it does not impact structural integrity of the bars, would it be possible to have the drill outs of the motherboard side as well? I think it would leave the user some wiggle room to get creative, for example mount a fan in front of the motherboard for VRM cooling when using an AIO without compromising on anything (presumably these bars are not visible when mounting inside the chassis. Doesn't need to be official features, but something that can act as tie-down points for those inclined.
Suggestion - Lower profile screws?
I find the screws in the render quite bulky and ugly, are these the only options? any possibility that would give a slightly less knobby appearance. I worry about this particularly in the GPU mount and the PSU shroud mount since these may be visible from the exterior. In the bottom AIO/fan mounting region this also may cost the user a few mm since it juts out quite a lot. I honestly can't work out how the GPU mounting works, is the PCIe bracket just clamped tight by the metal piece?
Question - AIO compatibility
Sorry I didn't really catch onto this before, but I wanted to confirm how solid you were on your 150mm x 120mm dimension restrictions. This is because when I had a quick lookup, there were a handful of AIOs and most custom 120 mm radiators that were "just" outside the reach here. So I was just wondering how tight these restrictions are. As commented above, I personally find the screws in the internal frame quite bulky, and may cost a few mm of space down below.
In particular I think the Asus ROG Ryuo is an excellent AIO for your marketing purposes since the Logo in the CPU block is customizable and therefore you can show off your logo in promotional material where other AIOs usually have their own logo plastered all over it. It is however 2 mm too wide according to your specs. Is there any wiggle room here?
Question - Is the front internal piece rotatable?
The AIO region of any SFF case is likely to be very cluttered because it is quite close to the PSU cables as it comes out of the SFX PSU. It may be advantageous from a cable management point of view if some of the clutter can be moved to the otherside of the PSU, and to do this the cable cutout for the storage can be moved to the top if the front panel is rotated 180 degrees. This should be possible assuming the front panel is symmetric, if it is, then great
Comment - Motherboard cutout expectations
This is more of a comment than a suggestion, but I thought I'd just say that it is great that the cutout is there, definitely better to have it than not. However the functionality to provide rear M.2 access and ventilation is questionable at best since you will have the PCIe riser cable running over this region so you won't be able to change out the M.2 drive unless you unmount the GPU and riser cable, which presumably requires unmounting the motherboard. Thus making the cutout functionally iffy. Nonetheless, I like it, but it doesn't tickle my functionality bone.
Would the extra space allow for the PSU to be mounted closer to the side and provide a channel behind it to route or hide cables? From the renders there seems to be a very narrow gap that looks like it may be too thin for routing cables through.
I think the updated design is a really solid step forward in both terms of build quality, aesthetic and probably production time since you've halved the required parts. For Science's suggestion of rails is actually a really interesting one if people wanted to opt out of using a standard form factor PSU and instead opt for an HD-Plex or something then it may be possible to mount 2 120mm AIO's.
But overall great update and great to see it moving along so smoothly
One thing is for sure, if the Kickstarter goes well we'll expand the case to online stores. If we're going to sell through our website, not sure...have to work out the math first when it's time.
