Motherboard March 2023 ITX B650 mobo options

[initium]

Currently I see 4 manufacturers and 5 mobo options, of which only 4 are B650. The options are much of a sameness with compramises being evident from each manufacturer.
MSI drop PCIe gen5 for gen4; it has fewer I/O USB connections and no S/PDIF, though it has been the cheapest option to date.
ASUS has had a number of issues with BIOS and their VRM stages reportedly being weak in some tech tubers opinion. Also they don't publish a block diagram. (What!)
ASRock have S/PDIF and a nice removeable M.2 heatsink but lack BIOS Flashback (an AMD stated feature required for all B650 mobos) and has lower spec USB connections.
Gigabyte do not have S/PDIF but have an optional 3rd M.2 slot, however when you check the block diagram it is shared with the GPU lane, so using it would drop the bandwidth to the GPU. (Personally I feel this is a con, if correct)
So I'd like to know, are we likely to see better options in the very near future, or is this it? Pick the compramised board and live with the poor options.
As someone looking to buy into the AM5 platform for future upgrades I'm feeling underwhelmed, not that I see much better from Intel either, or that they will support the mobo beyond their standard 2 gens and force a move. So to all you experienced pc builders, what's the best option and spec mobo now or should we wait?

 

[ruby]

Compared with the previous lineup, yes, this is it. Five high/mid-range boards in total, one identical "max" version, and some low-end/low-end+ ones.
There is simply not as much love for AMD in general, and AM5 has not been flying out so far. Meanwhile the only feedback they get is people moaning about prices. There are rumors about budget b650 boards coming out soon (no word on form factor) and someone is bound to make A620 eventually, but that does not spell more features. I might be wrong but the next batch is probably late 2024, with all the same non-perfections once again.
I wouldn't call the options poor though. Something for everyone. For maximum flexibility, I would say Asus. For a more balanced small build, there are three. If SPDIF is a must, there it is. If only using an iGPU, make sure it has DP out. If USB runs out, all have additional fast ones on front.

 

[initium]

I was thinking ASRock, but I've heard that they OC the cpu, as they did on AM4. I was willing to overlook the lack of BIOS Flashback for the benefit of a removable M.2 gen 5 heatsink and everyones favourite peev, active cooling. Now I really don't know what is the best option.
If ASUS had a decent BIOS and the VRM stages are solid then perhaps that's the one. I really don't get the marketing plan behind AMD and the mobo manufacturers. It's like they want to hurt themselves.
Anyway that aside and dealing with what is, for me it looks like a choice between ASRock and ASUS. I don't know if ASRock having an OC on the cpu makes a difference. Anyone with any idea if this is detrimental to the cpu or not? The new chips all run a max temp before throttling, so I just don't know how an OC would affect this.

 

[wertzius]

Seems to me you are just guessing alot.

What are the ASUS BIOS problems about? I cannot recall BIOS problems with my X670E-I.
Source for the Asrock OC claims on AM5? In the end you will most likely use PBO anyway and not use factory settings.
BIOS flashback is not required - it is part of the AM5 specs but it is on the manufacturers if they implement it or not.
There are coil whine reports for the ASUS B650E - but weak VRM stages?

The Gigabyte does not share any lanes between PCIe and SSDs. It has 36 lanes and uses 34 of them.

SPDIF? Okay - if that is the criteria now?!

I don't see how you come to the statement that there are only poor options - think there is board for every need available - except for the cheapos that need basically 2 USBs for mouse and keyboard.

 

[rfarmer]

Seems to me you are just guessing alot.

What are the ASUS BIOS problems about? I cannot recall BIOS problems with my X670E-I.
Source for the Asrock OC claims on AM5? In the end you will most likely use PBO anyway and not use factory settings.
BIOS flashback is not required - it is part of the AM5 specs but it is on the manufacturers if they implement it or not.
There are coil whine reports for the ASUS B650E - but weak VRM stages?

The Gigabyte does not share any lanes between PCIe and SSDs. It has 36 lanes and uses 34 of them.

SPDIF? Okay - if that is the criteria now?!

I don't see how you come to the statement that there are only poor options - think there is board for every need available - except for the cheapos that need basically 2 USBs for mouse and keyboard.

I have to disagree on the BIOS flashback not required. Only the 7600x-7900x are supported by the first BIOS, the X3D and non X versions need a BIOS update.

 

[wertzius]

@rfarmer "Required" was meant in relation to the statement of OP that BIOS flashback is required by AMD for all B650 mobos - which it isn't. It is indeed very usefull and i personally would not buy a board without it.

 

[initium]

Thank you for responding. I'm not guessing but asking, so I appreciate the pointers.

As for the reports of ASUS mobo having issues with VRM, I have seen so many tech tube channels that I can not recall exactly where, however the BIOS issues I believe were reported on Hardware Unboxed. If that has been addressed now then great.

Source of the ASRock using an OC is from the Discord channel member who stated they did this on the AM4 platform too, no one corrected the statement.

Gigabyte's own block diagram show the M.2 and PCIe x16 on the same lane out of the AM5 CPU. You're the second person to say they don't share and there's bandwidth issue, but I haven't the knowledge to know more than what I see in the diagram; So that's really good to know and puts Gigabyte as a solid contender.

I am here to learn and I am asking people with better knowledge if they would help. Reading that you would not buy a board without BIOS Flashback is telling me "buy a mobo with BIOS Flashback". That's the kind of info I am looking for here. It's good to see people with first hand experience.
As for SPDIF, it's a nice option for me as I appreciate clear sound, due to partial deafness from an accident. But I put that in as a highlight for differentiation of the mobos. I'd much prefer to have better options to make judgements, so this is something else I ask and hope to learn.

Between what's been said here and in the Discord I'm starting to lean towards Gigabyte again. Is there anything I should be wary of regarding this board?

 

[wertzius]

The Gigabyte diagramm does not show them on the same lanes - the line shows that they are on the same bus (PCIe 4.0). Still the PCIe has 16 Lanes of its own and the NVME has 4x lanes.

The Gigabyte has a little bit strange layout and a small daughterboard. So you have to look into the cooling options - something like a L9a will fit in any case. Otherwise i made the table about the differences of the mainboards int he other thread - you know it already.

 

[initium]

The Gigabyte diagramm does not show them on the same lanes - the line shows that they are on the same bus (PCIe 4.0). Still the PCIe has 16 Lanes of its own and the NVME has 4x lanes.

The Gigabyte has a little bit strange layout and a small daughterboard. So you have to look into the cooling options - something like a L9a will fit in any case. Otherwise i made the table about the differences of the mainboards int he other thread - you know it already.

Yes I've seen that. That's really good of you to post that; very helpful.
Thanks for clarifying the block diagram. Obviously my knowledge is missing some things
This is why I'm here, to swallow my pride and say "help", so I do appreciate those that take the time to pass on their knowledge.

I still wonder which mobo is the best option. So far the Gigabyte seems to have a winning combo with that 3rd M.2 slot. Is it better than ASUS? ASRock not putting on BIOS Flashback seems to be a decider for people, and probably a worry for first time builders. So too with MSI not having gen5 on there M.2 slot.

Is there a better VRM design on any of these boards, or does it not matter as they are all good to great anyway? Gigabyte state their's as 8+2+1, while ASUS states 10+2. Anyone with knowledge what this really means, I'd love to hear from you?

 

[wertzius]

VRM designs are very much overrated outside of Extreme OC - which is not really a thing in SFF builds anyway. Any board can drive any CPU without problems and headroom left.

PCIe 5 for SSDs is also very much overrated - you need either active cooling or an absurdly big cooler on the SSDs - otherwise they overheat and for any normal usage a PCIe 4 SSD is more than suitable. There aren't really differences between SATA or NVME SSDs in daily operations.
LTT has a good Youtube video on this where there did blind testings and measurements betgween different SSD classes.

I guess there is no such thing as the best board - just pick the one that suits your needs in terms of features. You need USB-C display out? Only 3 options left. You need 3 M.2s? Only the Gigabyte. You need USB4/TB? Only the ASUS X670E-I. And so on. Audio features can easily be replaced by USB DACs - with better quality anyway with cost as low as 15 bucks.

 

[initium]

As I look at prices in the UK (23/03/2023) we have these options:
Pricing incl of VAT.

ASRock £301.19 (US import by Newegg)
ASUS £284.97
Gigabyte £269.99 (US import by Newegg)
MSI £257.94

That's approx a 15% difference between MSI, the cheapest, and ASUS, reputedly the best mobo manufacturer (I'm not saying it is, so calm down). My question is this. Do you think the ASUS board is 15% better? This isn't about how many bells and whistles one has, but the overall quality and the ease to build with.

 

[wertzius]

30 bucks for the ASUS are definitely worth it for better sound with AMP, USB-C display out, PCIe 5.0, ... The MSI should cost less than 200 bucks in comparison.

 

[initium]

30 bucks for the ASUS are definitely worth it for better sound with AMP, USB-C display out, PCIe 5.0, ... The MSI should cost less than 200 bucks in comparison.

"30 quid" in the UK
Pricing is crap along with the limited offering. The only way I can see a slight difference being made is if Biostar drop a cheap B650 ITX on the market. I doubt it will though. Guess I have to pay the premium price with the ASUS tax on top. The MSI is a no go and ASRock and Gigabyte are US imports from Newegg, and they can't/won't give a straight answer on final costs and warranty.

 

[ackrite26]

I had the same choice (UK here). MSI was not an option IMO. Gigabyte is not even in the UK yet, some have even said it will not be released in the EU. The Gigabyte does come with 105a VRM, 3* m.2 and a backplate. But I do not like the thought of having to use those daughter boards and not sure about the M.2 layout and clearance..
I chose the Asus for the points made above, its available, and because at the moment you can claim £25 cashback with Rate my Gear if you leave a review.

 

[initium]

I had the same choice (UK here). MSI was not an option IMO. Gigabyte is not even in the UK yet, some have even said it will not be released in the EU. The Gigabyte does come with 105a VRM, 3* m.2 and a backplate. But I do not like the thought of having to use those daughter boards and not sure about the M.2 layout and clearance..
I chose the Asus for the points made above, its available, and because at the moment you can claim £25 cashback with Rate my Gear if you leave a review.

Now that good sir is good news. £25 off puts it in the same field as the others. Thank you

 

[ackrite26]

@initium - Hi, just so your aware the offer runs out 31st of March. However if you haven't bought it yet you can get the asus on CCL auction store for £256.28.