Log Jonsbo A4 dual rad build

[Shark00n]

**EDIT:
This started as an advice thread on a Phanteks Shift XT build. But after tinkering a bit and finding a Jonsbo A4 for a nice price I decided to build in it instead.
Build photos from post #11 onwards

Hi!

So getting ready to build this on a Shift XT: 7800X3D, 32GB DDR5, RTX4090, B650E-i mb

The Shift XT can handle a 38mm thick 240mm radiator up top with T30 fans, after some light mods and 3D printed parts.

Wondering what would be the best bet:

#1: Watercool the 7800X3D w/ Arctic Freezer II 240 AIO and get an aircooled 4090 FE or (most likely due to pricing and availability) MSI's 4090 Ventus 3X.​

#2: Watercool the 4090 and put a Noctua 70mm aircooler (NH-L12S) on the 7800X3D.​

I can get the Inno3D iChill Black 4090 with AIO for less than 100€ more than the Ventus. It seems like a better card which is much quieter and boosts higher. This AIO was done with Arctic so it uses the same 240x38mm rad as their CPU AIOs. The pump and block isn't a crummy hybrid system with a fan (like MSI's Suprim Liquid) but instead a traditional full coverage block.

Watching Buildzoid's video on aircooling the 7800X3D () was what gave me this idea as the CPU should, in theory, pump out much less heat into the case than the 4090 in pure gaming loads and the Noctua heatsink should be able to handle it nicely. I don't think it would perform much better with an AIO when an aircooled 4090 Ventus might transform the case into an oven.

The AIO 4090 on the other hand will run a bit faster, much quieter and will also not heat up the case as much leading to better thermals... in theory?

What do you guys think? Should I go with the aircooled 4090 and AIO the 7800X3D or the other way round?

Custom loop is in the plans but only further down the line. Need to know the case better, plan it out nicely, and save up for it as the 100€ difference for the 4090 AIO could barely afford proper fittings.

Thanks

 

[paulesko]

I would watercool the 4090 and also delid the 7800x3d. It´s a bit risky, but with these last ryzens there are a lot of tools to do it so not so much of a problem imo. There are huge gains to be obtained from delidding.

You can also put the fan on the noctua on exhaust mode and that way all the things on the mobo will be cool (ssd, vrm and so on) I normally do it that way, and it´s not that good for CPU temps, but it´s beneficial for everything else, including GPU temps

 

[Shark00n]

First AMD CPU I've owned since the Athlon64 3000+, think I'll hold off a bit on the delidding

Is a 70mm tall quality cooler not quite enough for a stock 7800X3D?

 

[paulesko]

yes, it´s enough. The problem it´s not in the cooler. I donlt have much experience with 7 series myself, but I have build a pc for a friend, and I noticed the chip (7950x) went straight to 90 degrees under load. I took some radiators, fans and a cpu block to build a improvised and overkill water loop because I thought the cooler was faulty or something.

With water the temps were better but always very high, it got to 90 and stayed there during all the test. Investigating I discovered that AMD has a specially thick IHS and that, doesn´t help with cooling. Delidding the CPU can provide like 20 degrees less in temperatures, and obviously a performance advantage.

You have to take in mind that the temperatures are going to be frikin high almost regardless the cooler you use.


take a look at this video

This provides such and advantage that even noctua has a guide about how to do it. It´s dangerous yes, but man you will have some advantages.

Direct die cooling step-by-step

Designed in Austria, Noctua's premium cooling components are renowned for their superb quietness, exceptional performance and thoroughgoing quality.

noctua.at

 

[Shark00n]

7800X 3D is a different beast. Very different thermal dynamics compared to non 3D 7000 series. Seems much easier to cool under load.
But thanks for the hint! If indeed even Noctua has an article on it it's something I'll look into with the 7800X 3D

I'm having second thoughts about the Shift XT though. As a Phanboy the case looks a treat to build in, but the overall packaging isn't awesome.
If only the A4H2O could take thicker rads and fans...
May get a cheap nr200p and a thermalright pa120 to get the system running while I figure out the case and watercooling setup.

Any clue on cases that have 70mm clearance for 240/280 rad and fans? Shift XT can do it and I think a 40mm thick rad with 30mm T30 fans is quite an atractive cooling combination for a full loop.

 

[paulesko]

Can´t help much with that. I´m not up to date on the case wortld right now. I know that fractal has a couple of interesting ITX cases, and also the usual suspects like FormD Ncase and Dan cases, but I don´t know the availability situation with those. Sliger may have something also... take a look around and see.

 

[hrh_ginsterbusch]

7800X 3D is a different beast. Very different thermal dynamics compared to non 3D 7000 series. Seems much easier to cool under load.
But thanks for the hint! If indeed even Noctua has an article on it it's something I'll look into with the 7800X 3D

I'm having second thoughts about the Shift XT though. As a Phanboy the case looks a treat to build in, but the overall packaging isn't awesome.
If only the A4H2O could take thicker rads and fans...
May get a cheap nr200p and a thermalright pa120 to get the system running while I figure out the case and watercooling setup.

Any clue on cases that have 70mm clearance for 240/280 rad and fans? Shift XT can do it and I think a 40mm thick rad with 30mm T30 fans is quite an atractive cooling combination for a full loop.

Technically you could try switching locations for the GPU and radiator inside the h2o (I've been thinking about it since it was ready to release, see my bothersome questions over at the official thread). Other option: If you get lucky and find a Ghost S1.

In terms of "tower"-like cases: You could try your luck on doing a vertical stand mod for more classic-oriented cases like the NR200 or the SAMA-IM (see my ; temps are awesome, but I'm using a D9L, and an outside-located P12 Max), too. They certainly support all that.
Another one that popped up: Silverstone Sugo 15 - and if we're already stuck with borderline SFF cases, take a look at the Fractal Design Core 500 as well

cu, w0lf.

 

[Shark00n]

Got a NR200P in an amazon deal, 38 bucks. And can confirm this size is not for me. Too big to lug. Was digging the Sugo 15 and 16, they seem like great cases but ultimately too big for me.

Phanteks Shift XT is marginally smaller. But the fact it can fit a 40mm thick rad, perhaps even in 280mm size, is great for the kind of hardware I plan to install.

So I don't think I can escape a full custom loop. Eyeing the A4-H2O as well but don't like the idea of having a 7800X3D+RTX4090 being cooled by a puny 27mm thick 240 rad.

 

[paulesko]

I have a Ncase M1 and if you fin one used, you could put the new alphacool 45mm new radiator on the side, that seem to work almost as good as 60mm ones. and I´d say it will fit (barely)

Alphacool NexXxoS HPE-45 Full Copper 360 mm Radiator Review

Alphacool updated its radiator lineup with the new NexXxos HPE series in 30 and 45 mm thickness options. We examine the NexXxos HPE-45 360 mm radiator offering multiple G1/4" ports, a flush mount, low pressure drop, and impressive thermal performance that even challenges thicker radiators!

www.techpowerup.com

 

[paulesko]

Have not seen it, but the guy is serious, it could have some interesting information

 

[Shark00n]

That's a very useful video and shows well what was first evident in Buildzoid's video on the 7800X3D. It has a pretty manageable TDP.


Still on the search for a new case. Jonsbo A4 would be almost perfect.
But it only comes with side glass panels. Not worried about the airflow, but about the breaking, as I'll be transporting it frequently.

Never owned a tempered glass chassis. Think they'll break easy?

*EDIT
Got the Jonsbo A4, quite pleased with the case but haven't built in it yet. Bit bigger than the A4-H2O or the Aklla A4 Max (another case I was considering) at 15L, but for 60€ new I couldn't pass it up. Store also had a Jonsbo V10 for 40€. Great alternative to the NR200P
Time to get real acquainted with Mr. Dremel

 

[Shark00n]

Pretty, but not too little, case

Cardboardware. (Waterblocked reference 4090, EK FLT80 DDC, Black Ice GTS 280, 2x140 fans, 2x120 T30 fans all to scale)

Seems like a good fit

HW Labs Black Ice Genesis GTS 280 is absolutely at the very limit. half a mil side clearance inside the top bracket. Still should fit with a bit of cutting here and there.
Completely destroys compatibility for the top to close because the rubber nubs won't fit. But I think that will be an easy fix. There's 2mm clearance that would be perfect for some magnetic tape to hold the top lid. Or velcro.

This rad is rated for 800W of heat dissipation. It's quite the beast but it will kill your flow.
Taking advantage of the chimney effect and helped by the T30s at the bottom, I think it will handle the 4090 and 7800X3D nicely.

At least I sure hope it does

 

[hrh_ginsterbusch]

Lets just say: Just a few minutes ago, I had the immediate option to be able to compare a "regular" 280 AIO (Silent Loop 2) with the Liquid Freezer II 240, which sits at 38 mm. The LF II is such a brutal brick, feels like a massive beam of stainless steel, while the SL2 feels like "I think I can fly ... I think I can touch the sky" (adopted loosely from R. Kelly).

TL;DR: Yeah, GTS is the way to go, even if you could put a 45mm thick 240 mm rad monstrosity in there. A 280 rad supposedly has more surface, thus better cooling capacity.

In terms of fans, are you planning to use something like the Noctua NA-SFMA1 Mounting Kit to accomodate the fact of 120 mm fans on a 280 radiator, or do you have different plans? Sadly, there arent any P14 Max yet, else I'd suggested them to you. The P12 Max certainly are impressive, too, although they dont go down to 0 rpm, but start at 200.

cu, w0lf.

 

[hrh_ginsterbusch]

Have not seen it, but the guy is serious, it could have some interesting information

STS has been my "fan tester of choice" for a while, and does really good tests.

cu, w0lf.

 

[Shark00n]

In terms of fans, are you planning to use something like the Noctua NA-SFMA1 Mounting Kit to accomodate the fact of 120 mm fans on a 280 radiator, or do you have different plans? Sadly, there arent any P14 Max yet, else I'd suggested them to you. The P12 Max certainly are impressive, too, although they dont go down to 0 rpm, but start at 200.

cu, w0lf.

Well I have 6 Arctic P12 Max that I bought when I thought I was going to do an aircooling rig in a nr200p, but I don't think I'll use them. Maybe for bottom intake.

Was thinking of dual T30s in the bottom intake + dual 140 Noctuas at the top for exhaust. With 140s at the top it will require quite a bit of modding to the top bracket. With 120s and adaptor should be a straight easy fit.

Think two 120s can handle a 280 rad without much loss to performance?

 

[hrh_ginsterbusch]

Well I have 6 Arctic P12 Max that I bought when I thought I was going to do an aircooling rig in a nr200p, but I don't think I'll use them. Maybe for bottom intake.

Was thinking of dual T30s in the bottom intake + dual 140 Noctuas at the top for exhaust. With 140s at the top it will require quite a bit of modding to the top bracket. With 120s and adaptor should be a straight easy fit.

Maybe try slim 140s? The T30s would certainly do the major lifting, the 140s just do the exhaust. Slim 140s that look promising: Arctic P14 Slim PWM PST and Jonsbo HF1415 RGB. The latter one seems to be the same fan being used on top of the Jonsbo HX6200D CPU cooler, so despite RGB, not a bad choice at all. And well, one doesnt need to connect the RGB anyway (I did the same with the Scythe Kaze Flex 92 RGB I got in my SAMA IM01).

The P12 Max are certainly wasted as mere bottom intake (says the one who uses Silent Wings 4 HS for the exactly same job in their AP201 ).

Think two 120s can handle a 280 rad without much loss to performance?

Depends on the 120s. T30 and P12 Max? They wont even break out a sweat. Anything else? YMMV.


cu, w0lf.

 

[Shark00n]

This is due some updates

Ended with this config:
AMD 7800X3D
KFA2 ST V2 4090
Asus B650E-I Strix
32GB DDR5 Corsair Vengeance 6000MHz CL30
ASUS Loki 1000W SFX-L
WD SN850 2TB Gen4x4 + Kingston KC3000 2TB Gen4x4 + Samsung 870 Evo 2TB SATA + Samsung 870 Evo 2TB SATA

Chassis and cooling:
Jonsbo A4 Space Grey case
Corsair XR5 Neo 240mm rad
Hanjiang 17mm Slim 240mm rad
Alphacool Core 1 Black CPU block
Alphacool Eisblock Aurora Acrylic GPU block
EKWB FLT80 DDC PWM pump/res combo
EKWB DDC Heatsink
ZMT tube
Mix of XSPC, EKWB low-profile fittings/adaptors with Alphacool and Bykski offsets.
2x Silverstone Air Slimmer PWM 120 top exhaust fans
2x Fanner Slim PWM 120x12mm bottom instake fans (Scythe kaze slim 1212 clones, from Aliexpress, pretty decent)


Initial plan involved putting the Silverstone Air Slimers on the bottom as intake. I'd cut away 2mm from the case's spine and it would fit amazingly. Failed to acount for the mobo as it's mounted as low as the spine, can't cut that So had to fit the super 12mm slim fans as intake. They don't do much but help get the air circulation started and are surprisingly useful at quiet levels.

For the top I wanted two regular 120mm fans. Unfortunately my GPU+WB height calculations didn't turn out great and it was interfering. Had to put the Silverstone Air Slimmers at the top. Again not ideal but they behave well enough.

Fitting the SFX-L Loki 1000W was a bit of a pain. With the rads a standard SFX unit would've been much easier. Had a Silverstone 850R ordered. But the loki uses a bigger fan, is generally quieter under my loads, was cheaper and it did fit!

Some pictures then:

 

[Shark00n]

"Say hello to my little friend!"

I don't usually have it in full RGB rainbow puke mode. With lights off it's quite understated, love these tinted windows.

Thanks

 

[hrh_ginsterbusch]

How do the Air Slimmer work out for you? I've recently acquired the Silverstone Vida 240 which got the ARGB variant of the Slimmer included.

cu, w0lf.

 

[Shark00n]

Probably the best slim fans I've ever tried. They are pretty powerful at full beans.
Pretty loud too but the noise profile is actually not too bothersome.