I need your expertise

alx

Efficiency Noob
Original poster
New User
Apr 15, 2020
7
0
Hi all,

I'm so out of touch with the PC component world, I'm still concerned that AMD is the new kid on the block and doesn't have the experience that Intel does! So I need your help.

It is time to introduce my son to the frustrations of building a PC from scratch. I’m probably not the best teacher; having only built 3 systems in my 40 years; but home schooling is forcing my hand; and I’m a sucker for punishment. As you could probably glean from the infrequent builds, I’m also slightly out of touch.

We do have some constraints though. Most notably – space. And I’m not a media system enthusiast; nor do I build because I enjoy it. I love the build; then I love the fact I don’t have to build again for a number of years. My last system was a mini-ATX build in a cube. It does the job well enough – has done for 5 years. This time, we have even less space, as we somehow have to fit TWO PC’s into our house with enough free room that they are actually usable. That means I’m about to dip my toes into the pool labelled “mini-ITX”.

But we also have budget constraints. I’ve spent ages reading up and trying to understand what stuff means; but I’ll admit – I’m not sure when this all became so complex. Or, probably more accurately, I’m not sure when I became my dad. I always laughed at his inability to understand the home PC market – he was a mainframe programmer for a large bank for crying out loud – he must be able to get it. Well, now I understand – stopped keeping up-to-date for 10 years and all of a sudden I don’t understand a thing.

Anyway – to the question. I’ve read up that the best way to start a build is to start with the case; then move on from there. So I’ve found a case that I think will work – the fractal node 202. That’s £80 worth of case, so not the most expensive, because I’m on a budget, but small, compact and has a separate compartment for the GPU which should help with temperatures. I’ve then started speccing it up; but here is where I need your superior knowledge. Because I’m an old fogey who doesn’t understand what I’m supposed to be looking for. I need to try and reduce this spend, but keep the performance good enough to last 5 years, and play games at a decent speed and quality at the least.

  • Case: Fractal Node 202 (This part is probably the bit I’m most comfortable with tbh)
  • Mobo: ASRock Z390M
  • CPU: Intel Core i3 9100F (Went with Intel because the Ryzen 3 is £15 more and I’ve always been Intel)
  • CPU cooler: Artic Freezer 11 LP
  • RAM: 4GB Corsair DDR4 Value Select (Figured RAM was less important, and I can probably get by with 4GB instead of 8)
  • GPU: Gigabyte Radeon RX 570 (Massive struggle with this one. Cost/Value arguments and I’ve always been green, so this is my first red; but I have no idea)
  • Storage: 500MB Crucial P1 M.2
  • PSU: 300W SFX (I must admit, I haven’t done the power calculation yet, but surely 300W would be enough as it’s only driving the CPU and a single GPU)

With a monitor for £80 and the OS for £100 that brings the total bill to about £750. Is there anything I can swap out to knock the budget down? Or have I already tried to cut back too much? Some guidance from better and more knowledgeable minds would be greatly appreciated.
 

Legion

Airflow Optimizer
Nov 22, 2017
357
386
You don't need to spend 100 quid on Win 10, you get keys for 10-15 quid these days off ebay and they work no problem !!!
4GB of ram on today's 64bit systems is a no no, you need 8GB at the minimum these days, preferably 16GB

IMHO you've tried to cut back way to much for a system you expect to last 5 years.
Base unit, you want to be looking at a Ryzen 5 3600, B450 Motherboard and 16GB ram to keep it relevant for the next 5 years.

GPU, buy cheap now with performance that meets your requirements. You can swap it out when it longer meets your needs, the base unit will not need upgrading.
If all you are buying is a dirt cheap 1080p monitor, all you really need to look for are GPU's capable of 1080p 60fps, as that screen will no doubt be limited to 60hz max.
 
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alx

Efficiency Noob
Original poster
New User
Apr 15, 2020
7
0
Thanks - that sounds like solid advice. Although I'm nervous about buying keys off ebay - is that all above board? Probably is, I've just never tried it.

I'll have a look at the B450/Ryzen combo - thanks, I'm even more uninformed when it comes to AMD ...
 

Legion

Airflow Optimizer
Nov 22, 2017
357
386
If you don't trust yourself to buy a key, use this site.
I bought one for a build last month.

Stop panicking about being uninformed or out of touch.
A Ryzen 5 3600 with B450 motherboard is exactly what you want and it's all just plug and play !!!!
 
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tinyitx

Shrink Ray Wielder
Jan 25, 2018
2,279
2,338
If you stick with i3 9100F, I would say ditching a 3rd party CPU cooler and use the stock Intel cooler. Nothign fancy but it should get the job done, especially no overclocking. Of course, this is a budget driven choice as it should save you about 15 quid?
And Legion is right about the amount of memory, 2x4GB is minimum these days.
 

alx

Efficiency Noob
Original poster
New User
Apr 15, 2020
7
0
Thanks - and if I do switch to the Ryzen - I would assume that I can apply that same advice and ditch the 3rd party cooler?
 

GuilleAcoustic

Chief Procrastination Officer
SFFn Staff
LOSIAS
Jun 29, 2015
2,972
4,397
guilleacoustic.wordpress.com
I'd add that Z series (Intel) or X series (AMD) chipsets aren't relevant if you do not overclock. You might be able to save some quids by going for less enthousiasts oriented motherboards.

What's your overall budget ? What will you be doing with it ? Any mandatory features (wifi, dual ethernet, etc.) ?

Feel free to ask if you need details or info ;)
 

alx

Efficiency Noob
Original poster
New User
Apr 15, 2020
7
0
I'd add that Z series (Intel) or X series (AMD) chipsets aren't relevant if you do not overclock. You might be able to save some quids by going for less enthousiasts oriented motherboards.

What's your overall budget ? What will you be doing with it ? Any mandatory features (wifi, dual ethernet, etc.) ?

Feel free to ask if you need details or info ;)

Thanks. The only requirements is that i can play some games with my son. Nothing too new - my days with free time are so far behind me they're dimming in my memory (although those WarCraft 2 LAN parties we used to have were a thing of beauty!), but somethig like APEX. I will obviously need connectivity; and WiFi would seem the most useful feature, as I'm not sure I could run cables to where ever it ends up. It seems as if all the ITX boards I've seen have WiFi built in - probably makes sense with such a small form factor, you need that M.2 slot for storage, not connectivity.

The major constraints are footprint and cost - and I'd love cost to come in at sub £650 (but I'm realistic enough to know that is probably unlikely - £700 is probably a better target).
 

ParallaxStax

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Nov 24, 2019
120
110
I tinkered around on pcpartpicker and came up with this:
[PCPartPicker Part List]

Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
**CPU** | [AMD Ryzen 5 2600 3.4 GHz 6-Core Processor])| £113.93 @ Senetic
**Motherboard** | [Gigabyte B450 I AORUS PRO WIFI Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard] | £110.99 @ Box Limited
**Memory** | [Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory]| £74.98 @ Amazon UK
**Storage** | [Western Digital Blue SN550 500 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive] | £66.95 @ Amazon UK
**Video Card** | [\*XFX Radeon RX 570 8 GB Video Card]
**Case** | [Fractal Design Node 202 HTPC Case w/450 W Power Supply) | £139.99 @ Box Limited
| *Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts* |
| **Total** | **£631.83**
| \*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria |
| Generated by [PCPartPicker](https://pcpartpicker.com) 2020-04-15 15:37 BST+0100 |

Methodology:
CPU: last generation, but great value ans still has good performance.
Motherboard: Cheapest b450 motherboard. You could go with the asrock board for 10 pounds more.
RAM: Cheap, low profile 16 gigs of ram at decent speeds
Storage: The sn550 is faster than the p1, at the same price
GPU: cheapest compatable rx570 8gb
Case: You said you wanted the node 202, so I kept it.
PSU: 450 watts is plenty, and you save ~45 pounds by bundling it with the case.
 
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alx

Efficiency Noob
Original poster
New User
Apr 15, 2020
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0
Hi ParallaxStax,

Thanks for that - I was also mucking about and came to the same design (although I did have the AsRock in there), with only 8GB of RAM and I used the Crucial M.2 SSD (although I see yours was £5 cheaper). I was looking at the Gigabyte RX 570 4GB is £108. Amazon has the XFX 8GB card at £132, and partpicker has it from CCL at £125.

It looks viable - add £80 for a monitor; and a cheap key for the OS and we're just over the 700 top-end budget (which is a little elastic - it's not as if I don't have the cash; just the justification ...)

I'm out of touch with Graphics Cards (Hell, I rocked a Voodoo 1 from 3dfx at one point). Does the 8GB step up improve performance drastically? How does that impact thermals - seems the biggest issue is keeping the damn thing from melting.
 

alx

Efficiency Noob
Original poster
New User
Apr 15, 2020
7
0
By the way, I started LAN with Warcraft2 and Duke Nukem 3D ... we might have the same age, or close enough ;)

Damn man - Duke 3D ... Come get some. I also lost too many hours in university to using our computer labs to play 8 player Quake deathmatch. DM4 with 8 players was madness ...
 

AlexTSG

Master of Cramming
Jun 17, 2018
599
590
www.youtube.com
I would highly recommend that you consider an AMD Ryzen based system, especially if you’re looking to futureproof your system.

I think this video is worth the time to watch as it compares the Intel i3 you’re considering against a number of other processors, although the focus of the video is the comparison with AMD’s Ryzen 1600 AF (The AF part is important, as the AE part is still available).


I should add, that while Intel has had better marketing over the years, and better products at times, which shows in their market share, that both AMD and Intel have been producing processors since the late 1960s. In fact the founders of both companies originally worked at the same place.

Ryzen has been a great processor architecture for AMD, and it’s superior in both power consumption, and security when compared Intel’s current offerings. I currently own only Intel systems (4 of them), but when I build a new system this year it will be an AMD based one.

EDIT: The configuration that @ParallaxStax has recommended above would make for a great system.
 
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ParallaxStax

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Nov 24, 2019
120
110
I'm out of touch with Graphics Cards (Hell, I rocked a Voodoo 1 from 3dfx at one point). Does the 8GB step up improve performance drastically? How does that impact thermals - seems the biggest issue is keeping the damn thing from melting.
The 4gb verses 8gb is how much VRAM the card has. This is where the card stores textures. You want more vram at higher resolutions. 4gb should be fine for 1080p, but 8gb is more "furture proof".
 

alx

Efficiency Noob
Original poster
New User
Apr 15, 2020
7
0
Is this case too big?
112 x 300 x 427mm

One ram stick might touch the cpu cooler.

hhmm - I suppose not. It's an extra 24 mm wide, if I orientate the Fractal Node the same way; and 95mm deeper; but then it is lower (by 85mm). That's extra 2280 sq.mm additional floor space, which is about half the size of my ancient iphone!

I liked the node because it was tiny; and had the GPU seperated, which I hoped would aid cooling - this looks more traditional; in that it is a case with a void that you fill with exciting bits (and bytes). But it is extremely tempting at that ridiculously tiny price of £30 ...

How would it perform, cooling wise?
 

Bubba

Average Stuffer
Nov 4, 2019
63
24
smallformfactor.net
How would it perform, cooling wise?

Yes. The low price makes it very attractive. I was also surprised by the price.
I don't have that case. I can not say (for certain) how well it cools. But I have a suggestion.
If you use a top-down "blower" cpu cooler (such as the stock cooler), and without the I/O cover, it helps lower temperature.
The I/O cover looks good, but it can trap warm air inside the case.
The i5 9400F can not be overclocked and the GTX 1650 is only 75W TDP.
I think neither will overheat inside that case.
The main downside of that case, as you can see, are the "half height" slots. Only half-height cards are supported.
Since the case is so cheap, you can "upgrade" to a different case in the future. You only lose £30.

Another idea:
Lately, on youtube, there are a lot of old "Dell Optiplex" builds. Apparently, on ebay, old optiplexes are sold at a big discount.
People buy them and upgrade them.
Here is an example:
youtube.com/watch?v=33wlxyGyxt4