DoubleU - 3.99L gaming machine

[SmitiaS]

Hello,

I've kinda new here and to making logs but we all should start somewhere someday, right?

So I started with idea of making gaming tablet based on desktop parts but turned out that nano-itx with PCI-e and reasonable CPU costs over 1000$ witch made me drop this idea. However, on the way there I found in Intel specifications:

Small form factor 8-19L
Ultra SFF 4-8L
Tiny PC <4L

At that point I decided to make smallest form factor case without dropping gaming performance, using only desktop parts so no laptop power bricks allowed. And even more, to do my best to launch it in mass production.

Now I am finished hardware stage and in next few days I'm going to develop the case itself. Name isn't final, it comes from design solution I have in mind to provide both efficient space usage and unique look.

Specifications:

Dimensions:
216,5mm*194mm*95mm (W*D*H)

Material:
Anodized aluminium

CPU support:
35W or less (possibly 45W will work as well but I had no chance to test)

GPU support:
m-ITX optimized

PSU:
400W flex-ATX (300W in prototype build)

Storage:
One M.2 SSD;
Two 2.5" HDD/SSD (one 7mm, other any height)

RAM:
Low profile recommended

Case fans:
Two 40mm exhaust fans
One 40mm intake fan
Two 60mm intake fans (going to upgrade to 70mm or even 80mm if skylake MB layout won't interfere)

Current state:

Prototype components:
MSI H97I-ac
Intel Core i5-4590T
Gigabyte GV-N970IXOC-4GD
Two Kingston 2GB 1600mhz DDR3 LP RAM
Samsung 850 EVO 250GB
Seasonic SSP-300SUG
Riser: Star Empery PT328HR

I've began this project few month ago and made some case sketches which let me to find out requirements towards hardware. First of all, due to riser solution used to keep GPU from increasing case dimensions, CPU have been covered up with GPU which have brought into project cooling difficulties. Since extreme space saving goal was set, solutions targeted to moving cooler fan to more open location weren't possible. However, conditions are pretty close to 1U scenario so I used correctly oriented 1U cooler to also have sideways intake (can't tell exact model since I've got it used from friend), from there comes TDP limitation. Without case temps are pretty good and from my experience low TDP CPUs no much worse in real life scenarios then their more power hungry relatives. Finally, yesterday I received last parts for building system. However, putting together all parts showed me problem that I haven't foreseen.

Yep, power wires are spoiling situation a lot. And what's sad, I can't do much to solve the problem relative to the prototype build. Nevertheless, it solvable in mass production via custom PSU connectors set and length. All wires to the left will be gone since they are all adapters for connecting GPU to single Molex connector and about third part of wires on top are useless in this build - SATA power and extra 4pin for CPU. Also short length SATA cable is required. Next picture highlights what could be completely gone with all that.

That won't fully solve situation, however, Skylake MB layouts are much better in terms of both problems. First, CPU cooler will be more open (where at this moment power adapter wires are). Second, other position of 24pin MB power (parallel to DIMMs on edge, last picture's left) so all wires will be on "wire clearance space" - on last picture left will be extra 20mm empty space for wire management (well, there also will be 2.5" drive fixed on case's front face but it requires only 7mm). Next picture shows major CPU cooling airflow directions.

That's why LP RAM preferable and that's why building prototype is important - pretty risky build in terms of cooling so lots of stress testing should be made before claiming it's good and safe. While using case airflow intake will be strengthen up with 60mm fan, exhaust next to PSU will be strengthen up with 40mm fan. All case fan used are <=21dB.

Well, I want to end pictures streak with size comparative shot with standard ATX PSU:

At this moment I have to redevelop case from scratch so this all I've got now. What I'm gonna do next is updating daily until I'll have full prototype and final renderings with all changes based on prototype.

Also I have a question: fan in PSU is awful loud on high loads which is unacceptable for home solutions (besides that, in PSU I have fan seems to be defective - weird mechanical noises are going on). Currently I have my hands on Scythe mini-kaze ultra - will it be effective enough to replace stock fan in SSP-300SUG? Replacing process itself is risky so I want to think it through first.

Hope for fair criticism and experience exchange.

P. S. Sorry for picture quality and paint usage, today I had not a lot of time and chance to find better background and lightning. Gonna do my best to have better content quality in future updates.

First update (irrelevant)

Second update (irrelevant)

Third update (Major)

Fourth update

Fifth update

Sixth update

Seventh update

 

[CXH4]

I believe that you have a very ambitious idea, and I really like it! I personally like the layout, even more so the fact that it's around 4 liters. I hope that the development of your prototype goes well, and will definitely be watching your progress. Hope all goes well!

 

[iFreilicht]

Hi, welcome to the forum!

I see you're into FlexATX PSUs as well, that's quite neat!

Hope for fair criticism and experience exchange.

Sure thing, bud!

At that point I decided to make smallest form factor case without dropping gaming performance, using only desktop parts so no laptop power bricks allowed. And even more, to do my best to launch it in mass production.

Now I am finished hardware stage and in next few days I'm going to develop the case itself. Name isn't final, it comes from design solution I have in mind to provide both efficient space usage and unique look.

That sounds like it could lead to a very interesting aesthetic. You might want to take a look at the Hutzy XS. While this might sound a bit harsh, it's pretty much your layout at the same size, but better.

Next picture shows major CPU cooling airflow directions.

Could you show us a picture of the CPU cooler? If it's one of those supermicro 1U blowers, the open side is actually the exhaust and it takes in air from the bottom. If temps were good already, it doesn't really matter though.

Yep, power wires are spoiling situation a lot. And what's sad, I can't do much to solve the problem relative to the prototype build. Nevertheless, it solvable in mass production via custom PSU connectors set and length.

You've got a modular PSU, you could just re-crimp the wires, no soldering required. You only need Molex MiniFit Jr.-Compatible pins, a wire cutter and a crimping tool.

For production, keep in mind that PSU manufacturers have MOQs (minimal order quantities) that you have to reach. With FSP (I guess the 400W PSU you're talking about is the FSP400-60FGGBA), the MOQ of a custom cable harness will be around 300 units. So if you're not able to get close to 300 orders in, you'll either have to re-solder the wires yourself, which is very tedious work, or outsource that to a different company which will probably get expensive.

Case fans:
40mm exhaust fan
60mm intake fan (going to upgrade to 70mm or even 80mm if skylake MB layout won't interfere)
Space for 30mm fan (Doubt it'll help but there is free space for it anyway)

[...]

All case fan used are <=21dB.

Where would you put those fans? It seems like especially a 30mm one would just make more noise than help ventilation.

I wouldn't necessarily trust manufacturers specs in terms of noise, unless they're in the industrial sector. Also keep in mind that more fans of 21dB will always be louder, so if you can eliminate fans without losing performance, that is preferable.

Also I have a question: fan in PSU is awful loud on high loads which is unacceptable for home solutions (besides that, in PSU I have fan seems to be defective - weird mechanical noises are going on). Currently I have my hands on Scythe mini-kaze ultra - will it be effective enough to replace stock fan in SSP-300SUG? Replacing process itself is risky so I want to think it through first.

It won't actually be that risky in terms of work to be done. I've torn the SSP-300SUG down a bit and noticed that the fan is connected via a 2-pin header, so you could easily revert that change without losing warranty. It seems like the Mini-Kaze Ultra actually has that exact same connector already installed.

The fan used in the SSP-300SUG is an ADDA AD0412XB-C71GP, which has a maximum RPM of 10,000 (no wonder it can get so loud) and a maximum Airflow of 13.0 CFM. The Mini-Kaze only has 4.86CFM, so that's nowhere near enough to cool the PSU adequately.

An issue that can be encountered with FlexATX designs is surrounding components dumping heat onto the PSU. I'm not yet done checking how much of an impact this makes, but I plan to use a 4mm thick acrylic shield in my case, to prevent the GPU from dumping hot air onto the PSU.
In any case, going with the 400W PSU should reduce that issue significantly.

 

[SmitiaS]

You might want to take a look at the Hutzy XS. While this might sound a bit harsh, it's pretty much your layout at the same size, but better.

Well, that's why I really should push for two 2.5" drive capability. Besides that, my case design will be more or less unique with bright color options so I feel safe enough. Also, while Hutzy XS layout better overall, my layout will not be affected by horizontal positioning.

Could you show us a picture of the CPU cooler? If it's one of those supermicro 1U blowers, the open side is actually the exhaust and it takes in air from the bottom. If temps were good already, it doesn't really matter though.

Recently re-oriented cooler and luckily took some pictures on my phone in process, so here you go:

Cooler isn't Supermicro, some IceHammer. Re-orientating it in position you can see here helped, temp drop was ~10C°

For production, keep in mind that PSU manufacturers have MOQs (minimal order quantities) that you have to reach. With FSP (I guess the 400W PSU you're talking about is the FSP400-60FGGBA), the MOQ of a custom cable harness will be around 300 units.

Yeah, saw it on 500W flexPSU tread here. This fact establishing minimal production quantity on project.

Where would you put those fans? It seems like especially a 30mm one would just make more noise than help ventilation.

I wouldn't necessarily trust manufacturers specs in terms of noise, unless they're in the industrial sector. Also keep in mind that more fans of 21dB will always be louder, so if you can eliminate fans without losing performance, that is preferable.

Had to reinstall system today, lost some data, so... even worse... But works, right?

Orange where 40mm fan will be, green shows 60mm location.
30mm slot exist in prototype only because there is space for it and that allows to experiment with cooling more. In final model I won't bother putting it.

Still, 34dB fans supposed to be louder than 21dB, but yeah, manufactures aren't trustworthy here.

 

[SmitiaS]

First update (irrelevant)

Today I had problem with Windows being corrupted so I had to reinstall everything.

As result, all I have today is frame for prototype (maybe I should update once in two days instead?).

Bottom extras in middle are for motherboard fixation, they will exist only in prototype build, turns out to be much cheaper for single unit production. Frame will be printed on 3D printer while in mass production that will be cast aluminium. Edges are rounded to provide very smooth transfer between faces, however, faces and frame could be easily colored differently while keeping smooth physical transfer.

 

[iFreilicht]

Cooler isn't Supermicro, some IceHammer. Re-orientating it in position you can see here helped, temp drop was ~10C°

Ah I see. A very similar unit can be bought from Silverstone and I had issues with it pressing down on some capacitors on a board, but this one looks like it adheres to the socket spec. I guess you'll bundle it with the case, right?

Frame will be printed on 3D printer while in mass production that will be cast aluminium. Edges are rounded to provide very smooth transfer between faces, however, faces and frame could be easily colored differently while keeping smooth physical transfer.

Nice, that should look great when it's done and you'll be able to offer a load of customisation options.

Are you absolutely sure that something like this can actually be cast? It seems to me like you'd need to construct a very complex mould and simple die-and-press moulds wouldn't work at all. The structure looks very thin, too, especially for 3D-printing. It looks like it will break very easily. What sort of filament are you planning to use for printing?

 

[SmitiaS]

A very similar unit can be bought from Silverstone and I had issues with it pressing down on some capacitors on a board, but this one looks like it adheres to the socket spec. I guess you'll bundle it with the case, right?

It's tight but fits, seems every mm put to work. There were more problems with cheap plastic backplate since I've got it used. And yeah, during market research I've found out that it's hard to find something like that on most retail markets around globe so I going to add it to PSU bundle (I'm also considering to put out option with riser only since full set probably will add over 100$ extra on price tag)

Nice, that should look great when it's done and you'll be able to offer a load of customisation options.

At this point, I planing to offer 5 colors which gives 25 combinations to choose from. Also going to offer one extra color for early buyers in limited quantity.

Are you absolutely sure that something like this can actually be cast? It seems to me like you'd need to construct a very complex mould and simple die-and-press moulds wouldn't work at all.

It possible with advanced technologies like lost-foam casting, however, it could be way too cost-ineffective. In this case, frame may be broken down in parts which will be cast separately and afterwards will be connected with each other via upset welding.

The structure looks very thin, too, especially for 3D-printing. It looks like it will break very easily.

Edges are quarter of cylinder with radius 4mm, from my experience, with right alloy that will be enough for basic structure. But in terms of 3D-printing it's actually risky. However, I'm looking for spots which require reinforcement so it may come handy. Bellow to the left is how edges are made in corners. To the right is one of many reinforcement ideas I have. Instead of just corners, whole edge could be made like right one (there is even enough space). Also in case of welding all faces (besides top one) to frame it will be much better (I would like to get rid of as many external screws as possible for aesthetic reasons).

What sort of filament are you planning to use for printing?

ABS plastic since it more temp prove than PLA and budget is tight. Metal 3D-printing could be great but time for its mass usage hasn't come yet.

 

[SmitiaS]

Second update (irrelevant)

I've finished prototype parts models so I took few quick renderings (well, not quite, over an hour of keeping my PC hostage in process)

Here front-left take, on left face you can see space for 40mm fan (second below is just for testing airflow affection)

Front-right one, here to 60mm fan spots, most of intake (besides GPU) comes from this face.

And last but not least, back side, where all I/O are. 30mm fan will be useless here but actually part of GPU exhaust goes through there.

It's pretty crude but gives enough opportunities to examine airflows and fan affection on them. Square holes on top are definitely no good for actual build. The one in middle is GPU fan opening, the second one is where most of GPU and part of CPU exhaust goes through.

Supposedly, next update will be when I get parts so I may take a short pause now.

P. S. Made from raw high-resolution bmp nice but small enough for hosting png with clear visibility. Hosting converted all them to ugly jpg. Besides looking worse, red parts messed up between each other visually. Well, I guess I should opt for aesthetics (which obviously is lacking here) than quality in future renderings. It will be four time faster processing for better picture.

 

[SmitiaS]

Third update (Major)

Well, that was a long time, much longer than I expected. Producing sides of case was easy, it was ready within three days. Then I took it to powder coating company, they promised to finish work within week and... they "moved" (as they told me) so I spend three weeks trying to retrieve it. I already thought it's gone and I should let it go. So here a valuable lesson to me - knowing right parties is no less important than having resources and will. Then I started trying to find a way to produce that frame and... I completely failed. Plastic was too weak for this. Tried some workarounds - no result. While I believe design is still possible, it's impossible with my resources to test it so I had to dump it.

Few days ago I spend couple nights to brainstorm a new design based on existing layout. Also I wanted to keep following: generally anodized aluminum (without plastic in front especially), simply looking, significantly rounded edges for less "boxy" feel and being more or less unique with wide color customization possibilities. So here comes...

Redesign

First of all, list of changes in specifications:

Dimensions:
216.5mm*194mm*95mm (W*D*H) (instead of 215mm*195mm*95mm)

Volume:
3.99L (instead of 3.98L)

Storage:
Two 2.5" HDD/SSD (one up to 7mm hight, second up to 9.5mm hight) (instead of one of any hight)

Case fans:
Now instead of two possible positions for 40mm there are two independent slots for 40mm fans
Space for 30mm fan was upgraded to 40mm (while its use still in doubt and should be tested, ventilation holes themselves are promising to be useful)

Also some improvements took place based on gained experience. As example, hexagonal ventilation holes for fans - highest efficiency without extra complexity (wire frame require to fix extra parts and breaks design's "smoothness").

Finally, design itself:

Here curves are more obvious

As you may notice, basic idea is to have just two major parts which can be produced simply by punching and bending. Prototype will look much differently but technically it'll be very close.

Design also allows wide three side access to components compared to usual one side "window", giving ability to easily fit in biggest and most important components like MB, PSU and GPU. This access also improves most of cable management experience (compared to cases of similar size).

This one isn't final though, at least there are power button and front panel USB to be designed, not to mention improvements to be made based on prototype. However, that should be pretty close to desired result and seems to be more than possible and reasonable.



P. S. Prototype parts already in production, for now I'm gonna leave thread as it is. If it proves to be working, I'll have to change headline and first post, especially, specifications and name. Last one is hard, I wanted to name it something like DoubleU (due to main parts form) but this name turned out to be already taken by some online casino which is all over the Internet, hope I'll solve it in time for update. Thank you for attention and feedback on this new approach is more than welcome.

 

[Phuncz]

Interesting story, be sure to keep us updated !

You could name it the <<something>> "W", which would be pronounced "double U" for English-speaking folk anyway.

 

[jeshikat]

they "moved" (as they told me) so I spend three weeks trying to retrieve it.

Wait, what happened?

 

[GuilleAcoustic]

DoubleC ? DoubleHalfO ? DoubleSqrt(U²) ?

 

[Soul_Est]

Glad to see that you were not deterred in the least and are keeping at it!

 

[SmitiaS]

Wait, what happened?

Well, gotta warn, this pretty long yet common story. I visited them, we had an agreement on price and production time, I gave them parts. As one with a half week passed they still haven't phoned me. Then I called them and they said that they "lost" my number, also they "moved" and "lost" my parts in process (quotations here because I'm not trusting their stories). I weren't able to proof check that since they rented place at guarded complex and, as I weren't working there, guard wouldn't let me in. One of them promised to drop parts at my home in evening but by that time he stopped answering calls (by the way, personal cell phone) and hadn't come. Then this stuff all over again but this time his phone line was sometimes busy meaning he just didn't pick up on me personally. Next day I just called using other number and with some rude language made my point and only then he actually delivered my parts (interestingly, colored). And you know what? One of the parts was broken. He offered to make a replacement but I had enough of them and just said that he'll give me 50% discount instead. So he did. Moral of the story: knowing reliable companies is kinda an asset, also background check should be properly made - latter I found their group in social network, they couldn't even spell properly ("maneger", really?)

 

[SmitiaS]

DoubleC ? DoubleHalfO ? DoubleSqrt(U²) ?

DoubleSqrt(U²) - well, that's would be a pretty good name for an industrial unit

Well, after all, maybe I just can do something like Double-U or just Double U. Maybe that is not problem at all, especially at this point. I only concerned of potential registration problems since there is no corelation whatsoever. This is casino so chances are that they only registered it in some offshore country. I don't know, but why should I bother right here and right now? Better solve it when and if time will come, with next update I'll just name it DoubleU.

 

[K888D]

I think you should be OK if the name is used in a different industry?

 

[iFreilicht]

Take a look here: http://www.wipo.int/branddb/en/

You can search for trademarks internationally and see what class the trademark was filed in (column "Nice Cl.").

 

[SmitiaS]

Fourth update

Finally, with parts being handed to me few days ago, I was to able to actually test cooling, components fitting, etc.

Building all together I've found out the only parts aren't quite fit are excessive wires (like molex->2*molex->8pin and useless sata power) which can be fixed by having right connectors on PSU as I mentioned before. Installing fans weren't easy but, surprisingly, wasn't hard either (I used MB fan header splitter since there are only one case fan header on most mini-itx boards). Also, turned out changes should be made to I/O side to improve GPU fitting.

Here end result, on the left you can see excessive sata power sticks out, seems that right PSU is solidly required

24 pin on lga1151 mini-itx usually situated on opposite side of I/O so 24 pin wires goes into unused space behind front side, in other scenarios it's only blocks fan slot.

Well, now to cooling testings. I've used few benchmarks and real use scenarios. Max temps on GPU were from 60°c (real scenarios) to 70°c (benchmarks) which is pretty good considering fan speed being under 60% all that time. CPU, however, gave me some concerns. Max temps were 65-70°c (depending on core, short time highest, no throttle) which would be fine few years ago, but today it's quite risky window. Now I trying to find a way to improve that, temps must be dropped for ~10°c at least. Partly it could be caused by wires but that still a major problem. At this point, only idea I have is custom CPU cooler (as example, small optimized water cooler also could be used with any socket position while having radiator in open space), but this will be kinda expensive, I guess. Well, that will require some time and thoughts.

On other side, I managed to actually install and use two 2.5" drives so there are some good news too. I also updating first post to be relevant now.

 

[SmitiaS]

Take a look here: http://www.wipo.int/branddb/en/

You can search for trademarks internationally and see what class the trademark was filed in (column "Nice Cl.").

Nice link, thanks!

 

[ChainedHope]

It possible with advanced technologies like lost-foam casting, however, it could be way too cost-ineffective. In this case, frame may be broken down in parts which will be cast separately and afterwards will be connected with each other via upset welding.

For prototyping lost foam would be fine. I just recently got a new crucible for my forge to try lost foam casting a case. (Have done the process before for small objects and mounting brackets, never a full case tho)