DAN C4-SFX

[Ansau]

The 10900k is basically 2.5 times a 6700k at 5GHz, the amount of heat it produces is insane.
But at the same time I believe he tested 180º flipped 280mm AIO in pushout, as he's saying only 1 side has access to airflow and not like Form T1 or S1 (hinting he's talking about fans pulling air from inside of the case, aka pushout). And your results already showed the case is not sufficient to properly cool such high end cpus in this configuration: 80ºC at 2000rpm and the ryzen downclocking a bit at 4040MHz. Now consider his test limited at 1200rpm with a much hotter cpu running at 5GHz with fixed voltage...

 

[yj668]

@dondan I was wondering what is the approximate clearance width in this area? (back of PSU to the side panel)

Snapshot from Ali's video

 

[dondan]

82mmm

 

[MarcParis]

I did think the PCB was supposed to have a cutout, so that certainly did not help.

But he uses an Intel 10900K, so of course it turns into a furnace. No one in the SFF community should even think about getting Intel at this point.

Not true. Mid range 11th gen blows out Ryzen in terms of value. A $170 11400 gets very close to performance of a $300 Ryzen 5600x.

What ever CPU used, it's weird to see this very negative feedback from Optimum Tech on Sandwich layer compared to @dondan testings. It seems weird especially as C4 SFX in sandwich style looks very similar to SM580. I would have expected hotter GPU (RTX FE) temperature...something unexpected/weird here

 

[BennyBait]

Saw Ali's video and it looks great Dan - congratulations!

I will be upgrading from the A4 at the end of the year, most likely using an air cooler with the 140mm fan blowing out the side

 

[dondan]

Whould should we do next?​

After I saw the review of the C4-SFX on Optimumtech i need some hours to think about it because while I liked it very much I got mixed feelings on the conclusion. All of my thought and conclusion are in the survey below. Please help me to decide what we should do next?

Here is the link to the review: LINK to YOUTUBE

Now it is your turn please help me with this survey.​

(Click on the image or in the link above)

C4-SFX - How to improve the case?

docs.google.com

 

[MarcParis]

Just answered. My point will be to focus on one design (w/o riser / sandwich style) and become master piece!
Special like about removable GPU bracket to allow to slide big GPU without removing all others components.. (Issue on SM620 or NR200)

In terms of width, C14S with dual fan should be main aim (similar to Cerberus) ie 142mm height mini.

 

[paulesko]

Answered.

I would go for the cooling advantage that can provide dual 280 rads and a bit more with to accomodate more variety of gpu waterblocks and better breathability.

As a consumer, if you want something very small you can have the T1, if you want the best cooling you can have de C4; the best equilibrium already has a very good product on the M1, I wouldn´t try to fight that fact.

 

[Valantar]

I didn't answer as I just ordered a Meshlicious and as such won't be in the market for a new case any time soon, so I didn't want to skew your results. I'm a bit curious about the options though - if you go for widening the case, why also ditch the sandwich mode? Couldn't it be kept around for those that want it, allowing for thicker GPUs in sandwich mode? I get how this would simplify things and lower costs while removing an option that doesn't seem to be working all that well currently, but couldn't this also be solved for example by using a short flexible riser + some sort of GPU support? Widening the case would already open up more space for airflow in sandwich mode, after all.

 

[Skripka]

Whould should we do next?​

After I saw the review of the C4-SFX on Optimumtech i need some hours to think about it because while I liked it very much I got mixed feelings on the conclusion. All of my thought and conclusion are in the survey below. Please help me to decide what we should do next?

Here is the link to the review: LINK to YOUTUBE

Now it is your turn please help me with this survey.​

(Click on the image or in the link above)

C4-SFX - How to improve the case?

docs.google.com

I like the case to start with TBH.

I’ll say something I’ll say out loud—OptimumTech is NOT a be-all end-all reviewer or rather youtube-tech-influencer; he’s just the only one with high-video-production-quality that even bothers covering the SFFPC space. And has consequently garnered a YT following. He can and does make mistakes. Maybe that is one of these--I don't know, if his review were from Steve at Gamer's Nexus I'd much sooner trust a single review/data-point. Something seems hinky given your internal results and his.

A year or so ago Ali did a high-end capacitive-switch keyboard review (I thinks Leopold)—it completely blew up in his face, as he was clearly talking about things he didn’t understand; got called out on it in comments, and completely scrubbed the content from his channel. That is an extreme example, but I bring it up to show people/methodologies aren’t perfect. I don't bring it up to rub in his face, but to say a one-and-done less-than-stellar-review as cause to re-engineer a product is IMHO a kneejerk reaction.

Why do I say that here, and not on your reddit thread? Because I'd be downvoted into oblivion over there, and that is not a venue for reasoned discussion about such things. Especially when it comes to money and product development.

 

[jaeparku]

@Shripka

You have a point, but all of us SFF veterans know that Ali's words hold a lot of weight in this niche space. He's probably THE SFF reviewer. His case reviews often have 6 figure views on his videos, which is no small feat for a niche area. Dan addressing the points that Ali mentioned would only help Dan's case. Just saying ignore Ali's remarks doesn't help. Ali's reviews can make or break a product. Velka did really well after Ali reviewed postively on that case - otherwise it would've just been one of those low-selling eastern european product.

 

[Valantar]

@Shripka

You have a point, but all of us SFF veterans know that Ali's words hold a lot of weight in this niche space. He's probably THE SFF reviewer. His case reviews often have 6 figure views on his videos, which is no small feat for a niche area. Dan addressing the points that Ali mentioned would only help Dan's case. Just saying ignore Ali's remarks doesn't help. Ali's reviews can make or break a product. Velka did really well after Ali reviewed postively on that case - otherwise it would've just been one of those low-selling eastern european product.

That's true, but it doesn't mean that those reviews can't have flaws or outright errors. So the onus isn't just on Dan to fix things, but on both of them together to figure out what was the problem and how it can be rectified.

 

[riba2233]

I like the case to start with TBH.

I’ll say something I’ll say out loud—OptimumTech is NOT a be-all end-all reviewer or rather youtube-tech-influencer; he’s just the only one with high-video-production-quality that even bothers covering the SFFPC space. And has consequently garnered a YT following. He can and does make mistakes. Maybe that is one of these--I don't know, if his review were from Steve at Gamer's Nexus I'd much sooner trust a single review/data-point. Something seems hinky given your internal results and his.

A year or so ago Ali did a high-end capacitive-switch keyboard review (I thinks Leopold)—it completely blew up in his face, as he was clearly talking about things he didn’t understand; got called out on it in comments, and completely scrubbed the content from his channel. That is an extreme example, but I bring it up to show people/methodologies aren’t perfect. I don't bring it up to rub in his face, but to say a one-and-done less-than-stellar-review as cause to re-engineer a product is IMHO a kneejerk reaction.

Why do I say that here, and not on your reddit thread? Because I'd be downvoted into oblivion over there, and that is not a venue for reasoned discussion about such things. Especially when it comes to money and product development.

He is not the only one, Hardware Canucks have been doing this for a long time. They also started with that high quality beauty shots etc.

But that said, I believe Ali's results, he is very experienced and does precise tests. He is one of the first youtubers who started to do noise normalizes tests and has better test conditions than most of us.

And he most certainly is a reviewer, no need to downplay him, influencers are guys like unboxtherapy and similar. Not be all end all of course, but near top for his niche.

 

[Kundahli]

Seeing them side by side in the review, at least externally the C4 really does appear to be nothing more than a carbon copy of the M1, a tabao-marketplace clone. While the internal layout is more customizable, these changes don't seem to offer performance improvements.

In my mind, if performance isn't improving the only reason to choose one over the other is (1) hardware compatibility or (2) looks.

With respect to (2), I think the C4 could differentiate itself a bit if it offered a more premium finish, something akin to the Ghost S1 or Winter One. This change alone would make it a premium alternative to the NCASE.

There are very few truly premium cases on the market. The C4 could fill in here.

Finally, while not addressed in the Google Doc, have you considered changing the hole pattern on the case? Ali mentions that removing the top panel alone drops temps something like 5C. I know that some Ghost S1 one users were able to drastically improve thermals by switching to a MetaCustoms fan grille which had larger, but still pleasing, vents.

 

[Sam]

Whould should we do next?​

After I saw the review of the C4-SFX on Optimumtech i need some hours to think about it because while I liked it very much I got mixed feelings on the conclusion. All of my thought and conclusion are in the survey below. Please help me to decide what we should do next?

Here is the link to the review: LINK to YOUTUBE

Now it is your turn please help me with this survey.​

(Click on the image or in the link above)

C4-SFX - How to improve the case?

docs.google.com

With respect, I don't see large demand for this case. Who ever wanted a case of this size already has an M1 or sandwich version in similar size, there are plenty of them out there plus A4-H20. Props to you for pioneering your original A4, I still have my V2! I recommend sticking with your A4 vision of making the smallest possible case that accepts those same size components, just in a classic config with no riser, at 9L max, like ACAT 3 V2 https://caseend.com/case/acat-3-v2/ and SMALL SMALLEST ONE https://caseend.com/case/small-smallest-one/ There is a demand for these cases, they are just not out there outside of Taobao. I understand you want it to be accessible for a giant 3 slot gpu and long radiators, but there are already cases that accommodate this. Stick with same goal you had for A4, make it as small as possible, that's your brand!

 

[ignsvn]

Who ever wanted a case of this size already has an M1

My gut feeling says many of these people didn't stop at one case

 

[tasen]

Who ever wanted a case of this size already has an M1 or sandwich version in similar size, there are plenty of them out there plus A4-H20.

I am one of those who want a case of this size and I don't have a M1 or something similar. Waiting for the C4 because I can order it at the local shop in my country which is not possible for the M1. Sure I could get a second hand M1 but I want to wait for the C4.

 

[Aleksander]

I would buy the case as is! But maybe 10-15 mm wider would be ideal to perfect traditional layout, if it could be done without time delay.

 

[Aleksander]

It would also make it easier to have 140 mm fan underneath the gpu. And would also allow for the top mounted 120 mm slim fans to be mounted on both sides of the case?

 

[Ghillie]

I know I'm in the minority but the main reason I'm interested by the C4 is because I wanted a compact, traditional layout case that I could see all my components in (through mesh/glass). I have minimal interest in water cooling but I don't want a larger case like the NR200 so I got a NH-U9S for this Dancase. I'm still interested despite Ali's review but it depends on which direction Dan wants to take the case - if I wanted a sandwich case I would've got one years ago, and 280 AIO support wouldn't convince me to get another one if the C4 goes only sandwich mode. If it becomes that I guess I'll just accept defeat and start looking at Taobao cases