Sigh, must be nice when you can just do custom everything. Pretty cool though, they're really betting the farm on VR driving high-end system sales.
News AMD Project Quantum
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Sure, they're using this PicoPSU: http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-160-XT
Which has 12V input and outputs the other voltages needed for the motherboard and Sata. Then the video card just needs 12V. So I suspect the PSU is jumpered so it's always on and the 12V lines are consolidated to a few heavier gauge wires that run through the cable to the unit.
Which has 12V input and outputs the other voltages needed for the motherboard and Sata. Then the video card just needs 12V. So I suspect the PSU is jumpered so it's always on and the 12V lines are consolidated to a few heavier gauge wires that run through the cable to the unit.
What would the point of having a PicoPSU be if they have an ATX PSU (that seemingly wouldn't place a hard limit on power delivery) on the outside?
Not being sarcastic, I sincerely can't think of a good reason.
Not being sarcastic, I sincerely can't think of a good reason.
This seems like a more viable solution when going to market: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/SE-600-12/?qs=/ha2pyFaduidf2ziCB5EraBW00XAQDJJD8FZyaTd8Qqt4UAnZ87cJw==
Still large though, but an efficient AC-DC power supply with 12V and >50A should be more interesting for these kinds of purposes.
Still large though, but an efficient AC-DC power supply with 12V and >50A should be more interesting for these kinds of purposes.
An external huge brick like that is not a neat solution at all. They should have rather used the 500W platinum flex-atx PSU and fully internalize it.
Sure, but right now they have a thick, short, ugly sleeved bundle of cables that runs from the chassis to this huge external power brick. And practically speaking, the brick isn't something you're really going to be able to hide, so you have to live with it being stashed somewhere that's well-ventilated, and in very close proximity to the case. Such as... directly next to the case.
That comes off as an extremely inelegant way to get the case volume on paper to be smaller. I'd rather have the case be larger, and not deal with having to place this huge ugly block next to it, that by Aiboh's own calculations is (no exaggeration) three times larger in volume than an entire Mac Mini:
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Would you really put the power brick right next to the computer though?
Most people with a case like this will probably put the actual case on the desk, and have the power brick on the floor; out of sight. Yes, the power brick is comically large, but does that really matter as much when it's out of view?
With that setup, the cable needs to be atleast 5 ft or 1.5m to not have "desk incompatibilities". I'd also guess many desks don't have hideaway places (that big) and it would mean an unwieldy thick and long cable need to be taken care of in other situations.
Yes, if it can't be hidden out of sight or if it needs to be moved often. But why not then just put your PC in a hole in the wall and get "rid" of it once and for all
You might not have a choice - that big bundle of cables likely isn't going to have a length of ~6 feet. And even if it did, you now have this gargantuan heavy snake of cables to deal with, just for power. Plus the actual power cable, from the PSU to your wall.
Even if we assume that you can get a long enough run of sheathed cables to put it that far away, you're blasting all of the PSU's heat into wherever you put the unit. So not only does it have to be out in open air (lest you overheat it, meaning that cable hide-aways and discreet places are a no-go), but the PSU will push out a lot of heat onto anything in the immediate vicinity - electronics, feet, and so on.
This thing is just wildly impractical.
I wouldn't say that. The cable from the computer to the brick will probably be long enough to reach your floor. And yes, you would have some cable to deal with. But all computers need a cable going to the wall anyway, this one just happens to have some thicker cabling and a brick along the way.
Wildly impractical? Now you're exaggerating quite a bit here. Power supplies do not output that much heat - certainly not enough so that it's implausible to have one inside of a computer... Also if you can't find an empty space on your floor to put the unit, how much stuff is on your floor? It certainly won't be a difficult task to simply set the thing aside for most people.
I don't see why you couldn't. Why not just in a space somewhere under your desk? And unless you inspect the underneath of your desk fairly regularly, it should be pretty unnoticeable.
The case cannot exist without the power supply. Removing it from the main enclosure and creating one specifically for it does not remove the space that external device now takes up, even if it is displaced. Aesthetically, it's nearly impossible to reconcile without hiding entirely. Assuming the combined volume calculations Aibohphobia provided are relatively accurate, the case is a bit bigger than the NCASE M1. I'd rather take the M1, which houses everything externally and is more aesthetically pleasing.
If we were talking about a much smaller case like the Lone Industries with a power adapter (laptop brick) for the Pico PSU, I'd be more forgiving. We're not.
If we were talking about a much smaller case like the Lone Industries with a power adapter (laptop brick) for the Pico PSU, I'd be more forgiving. We're not.
We'll just have to wait to see how AMD is actually going about this, I suppose (maybe swappable lengths?). But I'd maintain that the thick bundle of cables they're using isn't at all comparable in inconvenience to a sole 16-18AWG power cable. Even with other computers that use power bricks, you have a sole wire between the power supply and the device. With this, you've basically externalized every cable that would normally connect the power supply to all the components, on the inside of the enclosure. It's a veritable metal rope
I don't think I'm exaggerating very much. The Xbox One is notorious for having a bulky, inconveniently-sized power supply. Project Quantum's, in comparison, is nearly seven times as large. Seven times larger than this!
I'd challenge anyone to find a single example of a power brick for a consumer electronics device that's larger, actively cools more heat/wattage (bearing in mind this has to serve a dual-GPU computer), and requires as think a bundle of cables going from it to the primary device. As far as I know, no such thing exists.
We're talking about something that's almost as big as three Mac Minis, and will probably put our more heat than all three combined. That's not "just toss under the desk"-able.
I have nothing against power bricks in general, but I struggle to think of how this implementation could have been made more inconvenient.
That cable is short, and it has to be, given that it is actually an internal power cable, sleeved. No way AMD will provide various lengths. That huge brick will have to be that close to the case, as you see in the photo.
How practical and good looking that is, I'll let you be the judge. AMD even made that brick have the same aesthetic lines as the case. You know why, because they know the two will be side-by-side, always.
So, now, I have no choice but declare this a complete and utter failure in designing a living room PC. I don't know what they were thinking really. Way to ruin a great idea in execution.
How practical and good looking that is, I'll let you be the judge. AMD even made that brick have the same aesthetic lines as the case. You know why, because they know the two will be side-by-side, always.
So, now, I have no choice but declare this a complete and utter failure in designing a living room PC. I don't know what they were thinking really. Way to ruin a great idea in execution.
Do you know what would be an awesome execution of this idea? Here it is:
Think of the case as a two layer cake, and add a third layer to the bottom for the PSU. The PSU would be completely reconstructed custom design, fitting in the same size of "layer" as the top two. The power cables would run through the middle, and of course add more red LEDs. Done.
Edit: Oh, I'm full of ideas, lol. Here's another one: A liquid cooled custom PSU fit in the same enclosure as the motherboard and GPU. Either three layers (thicker casing), or two layers (larger casing). Custom ribbon short power cables all around. Done.
Think of the case as a two layer cake, and add a third layer to the bottom for the PSU. The PSU would be completely reconstructed custom design, fitting in the same size of "layer" as the top two. The power cables would run through the middle, and of course add more red LEDs. Done.
Edit: Oh, I'm full of ideas, lol. Here's another one: A liquid cooled custom PSU fit in the same enclosure as the motherboard and GPU. Either three layers (thicker casing), or two layers (larger casing). Custom ribbon short power cables all around. Done.
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AFAIK, you're right in that all the traditional cables you'd need to power all the components (ATX for the motherboard, 8-pin for the CPU, several 8-Pins for the graphics, etc) are what feed through the sleeve. In which case, AMD might not be able to make them very long, since the wires are (relatively speaking) thin, and resistance (or degraded voltage) becomes a constraint to power delivery.
I don't expect that they'd let you vary the length of the sleeved cables, but it would be possible in theory. There's just a lot of unknowns still
I wouldn't say it's a failure, so much as I'd say that the decision they made to externalize the power supply - and, specifically, the way they executed that - is a significant negative that will turn many people off. The power brick they've made is very, very impractical, in a number of ways... And several ITX cases look just as nice (if not as flashy), support all the same hardware, and can contain the power supply, all in less volume, and with far superior modularity/upgradability.
(But then again, maybe system builders aren't the target audience, no?)
If I had infinite resources, I would have integrated it in the bottom of the case, with a WC block, and then made the top layer thicker to compensate for both the added heat and increased thickness of the lower layer (to preserve symmetry). But, if we're honest, AMD went with the external method because it was cheap to implement. So I don't know that they could have cheaply and satisfactarially integrated the power supply into the chassis, without doing a complete redesign, and forgoing the "wow" factor and dramatic design that they have currently.
I was more referencing your statements on the heat output. I appreciate your other comments though.
Ha. A complete failure? Do you think that this will simply just not work if put into the consumer's hands? Are you to simply dictate what is a failure and what isn't; especially when the product in question has not even been released yet? That the engineers at AMD had no other factors that they had to (or were told to) consider?
And since when was this a living room PC? This is strictly a prototype of AMD's ideas; a proof-of-concept. Nowhere have I seen this denoted as a living room PC.
Well, if we assume (for the sake of argument) that AMD uses a power supply that's Gold rated, and that the picoPSU inside the chassis can deliver ~200W, and that the whole case will need ~700W at load.... That would necessitate a 500W external power supply that would emit about 75W of heat at full.
That's not a huge amount of heat, but it's a fair amount.
That's not a huge amount of heat, but it's a fair amount.
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