Log [12V] B01T3 ...a 3L Brickless APU Build...

[infoberg]

I see:

• 132W
• Working Temperature -20°C ÷ +45°C

I would not use it with my B01T3, as it is drawing around 115W from the wall during bench tests. Much too close to this LED PSU limit.
And according to my heat gun, my MW PSU is getting hotter than 50°C with passive heat transfer to the casing only.
All that with ripple at 180mV while ATX specs for 12V is 120mV max.

Could work with less powerful hardware components, but that still looks risky...

I know the 132W is quite close to what I will need, but my current build uses only this much power if I play CS:Go, Doom Eternal and similar FPS games. That's not exactly the intended use for the next project, it should be mainly for media playback and maybe some light emulator gaming. So it might be doable, or I might try to get a 3400GE, there are some to be found at around 200 EUR on Ebay.

Ripple might be an issue, but that also depends on what the power grid spits out, so it might work out too.

That leaves the question of temperature open. I am not really sure how to interpret the values given for this PSU. It is meant to be built into cabinets, so I think the creators must have been aware that airflow might be restricted. The PDF states:

Over Temperature
Range: 110°C ± 10°C
Type: shut down output voltage. Re-power on to recovery.

WORKING ENVIRONMENT
Working Temperature -20°C ÷ +45°C
Working Humidity 45 ÷ 85% RH non-condensing
Storage Temperature and Humidity -30°C ÷ +70°C, 10 ÷ 95% RH non-condensing

So if the PSU itself should not get hotter than 45C, a shutdown at 110C (or between 100C to 120C) wouldn't really make sense. Other websites state the values as environmental temperature max 45C and operating temperature max. 85C. But I have to admit, I have no idea how this PSU will transfer heat, as it obviously has no fan and no metal case to transfer or dissipate heat...

Edit: just noticed that the PDF says: "Cooling by free air convection". Since it will be mounted against the metal front plate, it might be enough to add a small 40x10mm fan to the case...

PS: the MeanWell LSP-160-12T has a ripple of 240, as found in their specs

 

[BaK]

Edit: just noticed that the PDF says: "Cooling by free air convection". Since it will be mounted against the metal front plate, it might be enough to add a small 40x10mm fan to the case...

That should definitely help.
I am doing tests right now with one or two extra 50*10mm fans added on the sides of the case! Graphs to show soon.

PS: the MeanWell LSP-160-12T has a ripple of 240, as found in their specs

That's where the report test come in handy: 60.8mVp-p

LSP-160-MEAN WELL Switching Power Supply Manufacturer

MEAN WELL is one of the world's few standard power supply mainly professional manufacturers, covering 0.5 to 25,600W products are widely used in industrial control, medical and other fields, in line with international safety certification, short delivery of spot inventory.

www.meanwell.com

-> page 1 / item no 6

 

[Valantar]

That should definitely help.
I am doing tests right now with one or two extra 50*10mm fans added on the sides of the case! Graphs to show soon.



That's where the report test come in handy: 60.8mVp-p

LSP-160-MEAN WELL Switching Power Supply Manufacturer

MEAN WELL is one of the world's few standard power supply mainly professional manufacturers, covering 0.5 to 25,600W products are widely used in industrial control, medical and other fields, in line with international safety certification, short delivery of spot inventory.

www.meanwell.com

-> page 1 / item no 6

Yeah, the MW test reports are incredibly valuable. One of the many reasons why it would take a lot for me to look elsewhere for an AC-DC PSU. They seem to consistently overrate the ripple on their designs too - I don't think I've ever seen a yest report come very close to the spec, there's almost always a decent improvement. Which IMO speaks to quality and honesty in design - underpromise and overdeliver is a great approach. Of course there's no guarantee that different batches will perform identically to the one tested, but major deviations with the same design and components is unlikely.

 

[BaK]

Ok so I have checked the temps with the IDCooling IS-60 EVO and a 92mm fan attached to it in intake configuration.
There is only 11mm left on top of this 47mm cooler, so no additional 120mm fan but my cardboard fan duct is installed to avoid hot air recirculation.

Ambient temp is around 20-21°C.

20min OCCT Large Test on all cores, silent PWM fan setup in the BIOS:

While 100% CPU load and 110W at the wall, the cooler manages to keep the CPU under 80°C as you can see.
Not bad, but at 2800RPM this is not what I call silent.
On another hand, temperatures of the memory modules and the chipset are climbing and climbing (max temp of 54°C for the DIMM3, the one close to the CPU ). Even though the temp of the system seems to be somehow stabilized, these temps would probably have gone higher if I had went on with a longer test.

I also did measure the PDCB at the end of the test with an heatgun, max temp I got was 70°C.
The PSU was always a bit cooler, at around 55-60°C
That didn't really please me.
My theory is that the tall memories prevent air movement to reach the PDCB and the PSU.

To improve that, I tried adding two 50mm fans I had laying around on the left side of the case as exhaust.
I hope they would have 'sucked' hot air away from the PDCB, but its max temp almost did not change. only a few degrees cooler with the added noise of small fans at high speed.

I then also tried to rock the case, its left side becoming its bottom with added feet, and placed the two 50mm fans down there as intake.
All temps went a bit higher

I finally removed my tall Corsair RAM and replaced them with regular size DDR4.
That way I had room enough on top of the memories and PDCB to add a tiny 40mm-10mm fan!
Surprisingly it worked, even with no room to breath half under the cardboard duct and no access to fresh air!
PDCB max temp went down to 55°C and the PSU to 50°C!
The downside of that setup was all the other temps went up 5-6 degrees, except DIMM2 actually. And of course the noise of the small fan.

That's why I didn't stop there and went to Plan B! Let's try another cooler!

EDIT: ambient temp added

 

[infoberg]

Interested to see what other coolers can manage. I already bought an Noctua NH-L9a-AM4 for my next build in this case...

 

[BaK]

Interested to see what other coolers can manage. I already bought an Noctua NH-L9a-AM4 for my next build in this case...

Plan C is going to be (if necessary) a NH-L9a, probably like this:
23mm cooler + 10mm duct + 25mm regular fan

But for now, let's see what can do a Z39 CPU cooler:

 

[BaK]

So here comes the Z39 fan and its 92mm fan, along with regular size DDR4.
I just added the 120mm fan of the IS-60 EVO laying on top of the Z39 CPU cooler.
Had to make another cardboard duct to prevent from hot air recycling, even if there is only 4-5mm between the fan and the top side of the case.


Ambient temp around 21-22°C.

Noise wise this setup is a bit quieter with two fans running at lower speeds.
It's impressive though how much more noise the top fan makes when the top of the case is in place. The holes on the top side are really restrictive to let the air coming inside the case.

We can see that this time the CPU temp went about 2 degrees higher than before, reaching 80°C. But that could also simply be because of a little higher ambient temp. Still good anyway.

While the temps of both the system and the chipset behaved identically to the first test, I gladly noticed an improvement with the RAM temperatures!
And what mattered to me most, the PDCB temp went down to 50°C! Yes ladies an gentlemen, 20°C lower than before!

The Z39 and the added fan are clearly the way to go for this rig.
Let's see next if Noctua fans can still add something to the game!

 

[BaK]

I've finally decided to take the risk and removed the heatspreader of my RGB memories!
The heatspreaders were attached to the memory modules with double sided thermal tape, a quite sticky one! I had to heat the heatspreader up a bit with an hair dryer and then apply some force with a credit card inserted under the heatspreader in order to detach them. I took my time and did not break anything!

That way the RAM sticks have an height just a little smaller than the Z39 CPU cooler, no more interfering with a top fan.



Then I had to make a cardboard prototype fan bracket, a little less ghetto than the previous ducts, to hold the fan. I made good use of the holes in the frame of the case initially planned for an HDD bracket.
I will see later if I can get a CNC to make the bracket out of steel.

 

[BaK]

Did some more 20min OCCT benchs, here under the mean temps of 3 runs each.
Again, ambient temperature is changing from 22°C to 24°C, so only big differences should be taken into account.

1 fan is a bit quieter than two fans.
Hard to tell if there is a difference in noise between intake and exhaust. (While the top side of the case add noise to intake setups, it also hides the high pitch noise of the exhaust top fan)
Intake seems to cool the PDCB better.
2x intake is best to cool the CPU, while 2x exhaust is best to cool the chipset and the system (don't know where the sensor is).

As the speed of the PWM fans are driven by the CPU temp, I am inclined to go with a 2x intake setup.

What configuration would you choose?

 

[infoberg]

Did some more 20min OCCT benchs, here under the mean temps of 3 runs each.
Again, ambient temperature is changing from 22°C to 24°C, so only big differences should be taken into account.

1 fan is a bit quieter than two fans.
Hard to tell if there is a difference in noise between intake and exhaust. (While the top side of the case add noise to intake setups, it also hides the high pitch noise of the exhaust top fan)
Intake seems to cool the PDCB better.
2x intake is best to cool the CPU, while 2x exhaust is best to cool the chipset and the system (don't know where the sensor is).

As the speed of the PWM fans are driven by the CPU temp, I am inclined to go with a 2x intake setup.

What configuration would you choose?

It seems that the setups greatly differ regarding the ability to cool either CPU or Chipset, the difference in RAM temps is rather small. It looks to me that 2x exhaust would be the best compromise...

 

[infoberg]

By the way, I got my second case, this time the black one with metal top. The glass top just makes things too hard trying to keep it cool. On first impression the Noctua NH-L9a-AM4 is amazing, with the low noise adapter it is running completely silent, albeit in an open case. I will try to screw things back together and get a test run with with OCCT in the next days.

 

[jakejm79]

Good luck when you put the top back on, the hole ventilation pattern on these cases is terrible. I have a much bigger A02 with a BS3 with a 120mm fan (and still decent space to the top panel) and temps went up almost 20C adding the top panel.

 

[iFreilicht]

Time to cut out the panel vents and put a light mesh in their place

 

[infoberg]

Time to cut out the panel vents and put a light mesh in their place

I am hoping that it will not be necessary with the metal top, but that would definitely be a viable option!

If you're interested how it turns out, I started my build log here.

 

[FreshGnar]

+1 for 2x exhaust

 

[cleveland]

I've finally decided to take the risk and removed the heatspreader of my RGB memories!
The heatspreaders were attached to the memory modules with double sided thermal tape, a quite sticky one! I had to heat the heatspreader up a bit with an hair dryer and then apply some force with a credit card inserted under the heatspreader in order to detach them. I took my time and did not break anything!

That way the RAM sticks have an height just a little smaller than the Z39 CPU cooler, no more interfering with a top fan.



Then I had to make a cardboard prototype fan bracket, a little less ghetto than the previous ducts, to hold the fan. I made good use of the holes in the frame of the case initially planned for an HDD bracket.
I will see later if I can get a CNC to make the bracket out of steel.

That's a really impressive job you're doing right there, buddy. Keep up the good work!

 

[BaK]

That's a really impressive job you're doing right there, buddy. Keep up the good work!

Thanks a lot, appreciate!

 

[ignsvn]

Please stahp with all these awesome updates, you'll make my front-page review of this case looks bad

 

[BaK]

Time to cut out the panel vents and put a light mesh in their place

Yep, either that, enlarging the stock vents to a max or ... redesigning the whole case from scratch! I have indeed some ideas to improve it all around!

Please stahp with all these awesome updates, you'll make my front-page review of this case looks bad

Lol ok! Only a few little updates to come I promise!

 

[infoberg]

Yep, either that, enlarging the stock vents to a max or ... redesigning the whole case from scratch! I have indeed some ideas to improve it all around!

I like the challenges the chassis poses, it's part of the fun to figure out how to cram all the stuff in there

But a modded top sounds great. I want one where I can intregrate my touchscreen (flush with the surface, of course) and a hinge mechanism so it can be propped up in a 30-60 degree angle - all while still leaving lots of space for ventilation