Log [12V] B01T3 ...a 3L Brickless APU Build...

[Valantar]

You will find a lot of such models on Ali, but this is the one I got:

0.01US $ 99% OFF|Onvian M.2 NVME Adapter SSD To PCIe Card M2 Key M Driver With Silicone Cooling Pad Hard Drive Adapter Support PCIe x4x8x16 Slot|Add On Cards| - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

I did not check if it works yet though!



Yeah, fitting the PSU without taking out the Dremel would have been nice.
There is unfortunately no power socket to remove or fan to replace in that PSU.
The only mod I see would have been to get 1mm on each side by removing / filing / sanding a part of the black block under the screws.
But there is some silica gel or something mold into it and I preferred not to touch it for safety purpose, furthermore as the job with the Dremel was not that hard.

The silicon used for potting the PSU is there to ensure it's electrically insulated while providing some thermal transfer, so it's likely a bad idea to start cutting into it. You can't know when you'll hit a PCB or some other part in it. In general, of course, modifying a case is far safer than modifying a PSU!

 

[BaK]

UP AND RUNNING!

More shots to come...

 

[Sicaris]

Looking fantastic! It looks like the m.2 to PCIe is working, you just inspired me to do the same. Is there anything extra beyond plugging it in to make it work?

 

[BaK]

Looking fantastic! It looks like the m.2 to PCIe is working, you just inspired me to do the same. Is there anything extra beyond plugging it in to make it work?

Thanks!
Working fine yes and the installation is simple as that, the 970 EVO appears in the NVMe section of the BIOS without any other requirement.
It is even listed on top, before the EVO Plus which is into the M.2 slot of the motherboard.
I quickly launched a Linux Mint Live USB disk and both drives were showing up there as well.

 

[infoberg]

Thanks!
Working fine yes and the installation is simple as that, the 970 EVO appears in the NVMe section of the BIOS without any other requirement.
It is even listed on top, before the EVO Plus which is into the M.2 slot of the motherboard.
I quickly launched a Linux Mint Live USB disk and both drives were showing up there as well.

That's an awesome addition! There are adapters which allow adding 3 M.2 drives to the PCIe slot in parallel: 1 with PCIe connection, 1 with SATA connection and 1 with mSATA, like this one https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002306099658.html
Let's you turn this little beauty into a storage beast

 

[BaK]

More shots to come...

You've been warned!

I had a 1m sample of this black/silver sleeving laying around, it was a good opportunity to use it!

Just enough room in between the PDCB and the RAM for all the cables.
The ones for the power switch, reset and LEDs are also down there!

First plan was to sleeve each of the four CPU 12V cables, but that would have been too crowdy at the PDCB side

So I put two cables (of the same polarity) into one sleeving

The motherboard is pushing firmly the PSU toward the front side of the case, even shaking the case will not make it move.

The C6 power plug and a new little button

A reset switch!
Its diameter is 8mm only and was compatible with the opening of the case made for external powering

AC side of the case and the M.2 to PCIE adapter

970 Evo plus

970 Evo

Grounding

A speaker for the POST bip confirmation

And the little tour is over

Well just one more shot at night

Thanks for watching!
This adventure is far from being over though, thermals on the way, which concerns me a bit from the short tests I've made so far...

 

[Valantar]

That is gorgeous. Great job on the cabling, I really like the dual wire sleeving. IMO individually sleeved cables make no sense whatsoever for SFF.

Too bad about the thermals though. Those panels do look very restrictive, so it's not quite surprising, and I would guess you'd have a lot of recirculation without any direct intakes or exhausts. Should be possible to alleviate though:
- Add a duct/shroud/rubber seal around the top of the CPU cooler, sealing it to the top panel and ensuring no recirculation there? Rubber draft excluders for windows and doors might work, and look pretty decent if cut carefully.
- Add one or more small exhaust fans on the sides? Would likely be noisy though.
- Beyond that you'd likely need to expand the side panel vents, which sounds messy and complicated.

 

[rfarmer]

Very nice, clean sleeving. I used to always put a speaker in my builds, I like having the post code and any error codes. Never see them included with cases anymore, guess I should just buy some seeing as they are so cheap.

 

[BaK]

That's an awesome addition! There are adapters which allow adding 3 M.2 drives to the PCIe slot in parallel: 1 with PCIe connection, 1 with SATA connection and 1 with mSATA, like this one https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002306099658.html
Let's you turn this little beauty into a storage beast

Thanks!

There is only 52mm available between the top of the PCIE port and the top panel.
My adapter is 24mm high, so looking at the one you are proposing makes me think it could be a tight fit.
Its length could also be problematic, hard to tell if it is going to hit the PSU or not.

Anyway I especially chose mine for its small size, with airflow in mind.
Actually I started searching for a double sided adapter, with RAID in mind, but found none.

 

[BaK]

Very nice, clean sleeving. I used to always put a speaker in my builds, I like having the post code and any error codes. Never see them included with cases anymore, guess I should just buy some seeing as they are so cheap.

Thanks!
Same here, I find comforting to have a some information through the speaker.
This one has been recycled from an old build. I indeed don't see them anymore included in motherboards accessories. Well, some boards like Asrock's doesn't even have the pins for one.

I also like to have a reset switch in case a problem occurs, and even a main power switch.
I had in mind to implement these two additions into the unused USB ports, that's why the latter have been modified accordingly

As there is obviously no room behind the holes because of the PSU, the plan was to switch the side panels.
That would have placed the USB ports at the rear right of the case, next to the AC power plug.
While I had barely enough room for these two switches there with the CnLinko connector (125V), I had to give up using them as the C6 connector (250V) is now interfering.

As you saw I found another option for the reset switch, and I have an idea how to hide the butchered USB holes, to see later on....

 

[BaK]

That is gorgeous. Great job on the cabling, I really like the dual wire sleeving. IMO individually sleeved cables make no sense whatsoever for SFF.

Too bad about the thermals though. Those panels do look very restrictive, so it's not quite surprising, and I would guess you'd have a lot of recirculation without any direct intakes or exhausts. Should be possible to alleviate though:
- Add a duct/shroud/rubber seal around the top of the CPU cooler, sealing it to the top panel and ensuring no recirculation there? Rubber draft excluders for windows and doors might work, and look pretty decent if cut carefully.
- Add one or more small exhaust fans on the sides? Would likely be noisy though.
- Beyond that you'd likely need to expand the side panel vents, which sounds messy and complicated.

Thanks a lot, I appreciate, especially from my saver!

Once again you nailed it quite exactly.

First there is indeed recirculation of hot air.
With the rig just idling in the BIOS, the CPU temp rises 1°C up every 5-7 min. I stopped at 48°C.

Good news is that my cardboard duct prototype is already doing its job!

This is what I get with it installed, still idling in the BIOS:
- CPU T° : stabilized at 37°C
- System T° : stabilized at 47°C
- Fan speed : 1440 RPM
- PSU max T° : 51.6°C
- Front side max T° : 41.9°C
- PDCB max T° : 62.3°C
- RAM max T° : 56.2°C
(CPU and System are BIOS temps, the others are mean values from 4 sessions, heatgun, ambient 21°C)

Hot for idle only. Except for the CPU maybe...
The LSP-160 PSU is ok till +70°C, that lets me a margin of 20°C.
But with 40W from the wall only, I expected a lower value.
I am however happy to see some heat is transferred to the front side.

I guess the electric components of the PDCB gets hot easily thus the 60°C, but I am also surprised to see the RAM temp being close top that value. Could it be the RGB? That's indeed when pointing my heatgun at the color bands that I get that temp.

Will install Windows to make more in depth tests, and that will also let me disable the RGB lighting on the RAM sticks!

 

[infoberg]

It's still an awesome build, of course such a small case will not have great thermal features when it's so full. I am still thinking about doing a second build with this case and either include an internal PSU or add a small touchscreen on top - or both. I checked how much power my current build (with the glass top and a hard-working fan) draws and in normal operation it will use anywhere between 50 and 80 watts. But under full load it goes up to 130 watts. I think that's mainly due the CPU core boost and the fan sweating away.

I found an PSU that might just barely be strong enough and is a little bit smaller than the Meanwell in use here. It's billed as an LED driver, these are the specs:
LED Transformer SLIM 132W 12V DC Constant Voltage

• Input: 200 - 240V AC (AC voltage), 47-63Hz, 0.85A/230V
• Output: 12V DC (DC) stabilized
• Output power: 132VA (132Watt) 11A
• Protection: IP20, application area inside
• Housing PVC insulated
• Operating temperature max. +85°C
• Ambient temperature max. +45°C
• Safety standards: EN61347-1, EN61347-2-13 , EN 62493, EN55015, EN61547, EN61000-3-3, EN61000-3-2
• electr. Overheating, short-circuit, overload protection
• Dimensions: 177 x 56.4 x 17.2 mm
• Certificate: CE, RoHS, MM, SELV, SchKL. II

Suitable for all LED bulbs that need to be operated with 12V DC voltage.

German website
English translation

Do you guys think this will work? I would wire up the output of this thing directly to the PDCB, which needs only one connector to the CPU power socket...

PS: I just found out that the Streacom Nano 150 PDCB I am currently using has an efficiency of only 75% to 80%, not amazing. Using a more efficient PDCB might cut the power draw from the socket down to 120W.

 

[Thehack]

It's still an awesome build, of course such a small case will not have great thermal features when it's so full. I am still thinking about doing a second build with this case and either include an internal PSU or add a small touchscreen on top - or both. I checked how much power my current build (with the glass top and a hard-working fan) draws and in normal operation it will use anywhere between 50 and 80 watts. But under full load it goes up to 130 watts. I think that's mainly due the CPU core boost and the fan sweating away.

I found an PSU that might just barely be strong enough and is a little bit smaller than the Meanwell in use here. It's billed as an LED driver, these are the specs:
LED Transformer SLIM 132W 12V DC Constant Voltage

• Input: 200 - 240V AC (AC voltage), 47-63Hz, 0.85A/230V
• Output: 12V DC (DC) stabilized
• Output power: 132VA (132Watt) 11A
• Protection: IP20, application area inside
• Housing PVC insulated
• Operating temperature max. +85°C
• Ambient temperature max. +45°C
• Safety standards: EN61347-1, EN61347-2-13 , EN 62493, EN55015, EN61547, EN61000-3-3, EN61000-3-2
• electr. Overheating, short-circuit, overload protection
• Dimensions: 177 x 56.4 x 17.2 mm
• Certificate: CE, RoHS, MM, SELV, SchKL. II

Suitable for all LED bulbs that need to be operated with 12V DC voltage.

German website
English translation

Do you guys think this will work? I would wire up the output of this thing directly to the PDCB, which needs only one connector to the CPU power socket...

PS: I just found out that the Streacom Nano 150 PDCB I am currently using has an efficiency of only 75% to 80%, not amazing. Using a more efficient PDCB might cut the power draw from the socket down to 120W.

The efficiency should mostly only apply to the 5V and 3.3V, which you don't use a lot of.

 

[infoberg]

The efficiency should mostly only apply to the 5V and 3.3V, which you don't use a lot of.

I just re-read the test again, they specifically say that the 12V rail is especially bad, delivering only about 11V under load, or 130W instead of 150W.
Streacom Nano 150 Test (German)

I couldn't find a test for the Inter-Tech 200W PDCB I bought for my next build, hoping the best...

 

[Thehack]

I just re-read the test again, they specifically say that the 12V rail is especially bad, delivering only about 11V under load, or 130W instead of 150W.
Streacom Nano 150 Test (German)

I couldn't find a test for the Inter-Tech 200W PDCB I bought for my next build, hoping the best...

That is some pretty weak design then. That’s a lot of waste heat for essentially a relay. :/

 

[BaK]

Do you guys think this will work? I would wire up the output of this thing directly to the PDCB, which needs only one connector to the CPU power socket...
Output power: 132VA (132Watt) 11A
under full load it goes up to 130 watts.

Not sure I would trust an LED PSU, even if I've been tempted too!
Anyway this one looks definitely not powerful enough for your build.

 

[infoberg]

Not sure I would trust an LED PSU, even if I've been tempted too!
Anyway this one looks definitely not powerful enough for your build.

Hmmm, so you wouldn't trust the LED PSU because of its limited power? Or are there other reasons?

I think I will try to get the build together with a touchscreen and then see how much power it draws. If it's too much, I will rethink the options or try to fnd a 3400GE. That LED PSU is tiny, but also the most expensive LED PSU I have ever seen. Too bad I couldn't find it on AliExpress...

 

[Valantar]

Hmmm, so you wouldn't trust the LED PSU because of its limited power? Or are there other reasons?

The PSU needs to match the ATX spec for ripple, noise and hold-up-time at the very least. Too much ripple and noise will cause instability and can damage hardware over time (and will at the very least stress the motherboard's PWM circuitry). Too little hold-up time and you'll see system shutdowns/resets over tiny AC voltage fluctuations.

Edit: looking up the manufacturer, it doesn't seem like they provide detailed datasheets for their product. That is an immediate red flag for me, at least. It might still perform within spec, but there's no way of knowing. I would stick to a manufacturer like MeanWell that provides detailed datasheets for their products.

 

[infoberg]

The PSU needs to match the ATX spec for ripple, noise and hold-up-time at the very least. Too much ripple and noise will cause instability and can damage hardware over time (and will at the very least stress the motherboard's PWM circuitry). Too little hold-up time and you'll see system shutdowns/resets over tiny AC voltage fluctuations.

Edit: looking up the manufacturer, it doesn't seem like they provide detailed datasheets for their product. That is an immediate red flag for me, at least. It might still perform within spec, but there's no way of knowing. I would stick to a manufacturer like MeanWell that provides detailed datasheets for their products.

Detailed specs (and even the whole PSU) are indeed difficult to find. Most hits when searching the prodcut number lead to German/Austrian/Italian/Eastern European shops. But I just found one site which provides more details (and is also the cheapest one), looks like the ripple does not confirm to ATX specs. But might still be worth a try?

https://www.4epiu.it/prodotto/ftpc150v12-c/
PDF with specification

 

[BaK]

Hmmm, so you wouldn't trust the LED PSU because of its limited power? Or are there other reasons?

Yeah, I had a quick look at the LED shop you linked above and didn't find any test report or data sheet for the model you posted. As Valantar said, this is not a good sign.

Let me also quote Thehack answering me when was I looking at PSU alternatives for my build and found these NVV ones:

https://nvvv.aliexpress.com/store/group/12V/3356015_517264385.html?spm=a219c.12010612.1000001.12.744247e05vuIpi

MW is already a very good price, so I don't see any reason to go with knockoffs that may have reasonable quality, especially something as critical as power. I recommend sticking with MW.

Detailed specs (and even the whole PSU) are indeed difficult to find. Most hits when searching the prodcut number lead to German/Austrian/Italian/Eastern European shops. But I just found one site which provides more details (and is also the cheapest one), looks like the ripple does not confirm to ATX specs. But might still be worth a try?

https://www.4epiu.it/prodotto/ftpc150v12-c/
PDF with specification

I see:

• 132W
• Working Temperature -20°C ÷ +45°C

I would not use it with my B01T3, as it is drawing around 115W from the wall during bench tests. Much too close to this LED PSU limit.
And according to my heat gun, my MW PSU is getting hotter than 50°C with passive heat transfer to the casing only.
All that with ripple at 180mV while ATX specs for 12V is 120mV max.

Could work with less powerful hardware components, but that still looks risky...

Edit: wrong calculation