Stalled Winter One -- 15.6L SFF case, 3090 Support, 3-slot GPUs, dual 280mm radiators, CFD Optimized Design

[WinterCharm]

May I ask what parts of the case (top plate mounting screws, etc) restrict the length to 312mm? I'm thinking of trying to fit a kraken x63 which is 315mm in total length. Alternative suggestions are much appreciated as well

That limitation comes from there needing to be a place for the screws on the bottom / top panel to attach to the front / rear panel, as well as the thickness of the front / rear panel as they are right now. With very square radiators, due to the bumps in the corners, it will be tricky getting past them. The case was designed with the HardwareLabs GTS 280 in mind, so that would be your best bet. If you want to go the AIO route for ease of setting things up, I'd go with a 240mm AIO instead, for the safest / easiest route.

This raises so many questions, so many possibilities! 312mm is the exact length of the GTS 280, so I assume it was design with those in mind. I am really curious about that bracket, but I'll wait until the KS before I bombard you with you questions.

The case was designed specifically to support the HardwareLabs GTS 280, because it's the best performing 280mm radiator right now. ?

Wondering what CPU Coolers will fit and can cool a 3900x/3950x or the new 5900/5950, Clearance was only 67mm and I assume it only bumped up a bit when the change for 280 came about.

CPU Coolers up to a Noctua L12S (the 70mm version) will fit, as that's the new cooler height restriction. For cooling a 5900 / 5950X I would suggest an AIO for best performance, at least until the SPK comes out, but with an underplot, the L12S will suffice in a pinch, as it's one of the best performing coolers under 70mm.

Hello - my first post here

I was thinking of doing an air cooled build in this case with the view of getting the semi passive/passive heat sinks in the future. My guess is that they are being made by Noctua (sorry if that seems obvious) and I was wondering what case fans would make the most sense?

NF-14x25 seem obvious but the Arctic P14's are so much cheaper and seem to give a similar performance albeit with a different hum.

Secondly, the CPU cooler height is at 67mm so that would mean my blackridge with an external 120mm fan would fit, or an L12S Ghost edition - are there any coolers I'm missing out?

Finally, I was wondering what kind of temp improvements could I see vs the Dan A4 (probably being a bit impatient here...haha)?

Temp improvements will depend on the full specs (especially the thermal output) of the hardware you use. In general, thermals should improve significantly. There are some instances (with particular GPU coolers) where you will actually have to turn DOWN the case fans to increase temps. IIRC, @gelbetron during one of our beta testing simulations found this:

Case fans at 66% - gpu 80c​

Case fans at 50% gpu 76c​

This is because the airflow is overwhelming the GPU cooler exhaust on some GPUs... Airflow in this case is so strong it's almost funny ?

But in general, you'll have more clearance than in the DanCase A4, and better airflow, even in the top >> bottom configuration.

The easy things first: NF-14x25 are not yet released, the cpu cooler clearance has changed to 70mm (see previous page) and depending on what you'll run you temp improvements vs the DAN could be huge. (its more than double the size)

With the fans it's harder. You have to decide on the use case, and I think if you put a big heatsink in the case and fans to push air through it might be a different case than having 2 radiators. With that being said, I would assume that you don't need that much static pressure as you're not forcing air through the radiator when using the heatsink. So maybe a Fractal HF-14 Venturi might be a better choice. (only assumptions here)

For the 280GTS the best fan you can buy is actually the NF-A12x25 with a shroud to mount to the 140mm, then the P12/ P14 and then the NF-A14. (if you measure performance/noise) In the end we're talking 1-3° here, so I guess going for the P14s should be the reasonable choice.

This is true, the NF A14x25's are not out. They are supposed to come out next year, based on Noctua's published roadmap. Still waiting on KS to finally give me the green light. Website is being updated... but will be ready to go soon.

-------------------------

While we all wait, here's a Compatibility Chart

And here are some beauty shots of the case:

Credit for these last 3 images goes to the beta testers <3

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Edit: whoops. I posted the full resolution Compatibility chart (14.5K) was causing the forum thread to become unstable if you interact with it. Uhh, I just resized it to a lower-res version (4.3K) :3

Edit 2: found a minor error with the compatibility chart. Now fixed. If you caught it, and messaged me, thank you <3

 

[QuantumCereal]

CPU Coolers up to a Noctua L12S (the 70mm version) will fit, as that's the new cooler height restriction. For cooling a 5900 / 5950X I would suggest an AIO for best performance, at least until the SPK comes out, but with an underplot, the L12S will suffice in a pinch, as it's one of the best performing coolers under 70mm.

Sorry if this has been asked previously, but what would you recommend as the maximum CPU air cooler height while using the solid panels? With the solid panels not being recommended for triple slot GPUs to prevent choking, I was curious if there is a lower recommended cpu cooler height with the solid sides for similar reasons.

That being said I'm very excited for this case and hoping to see the Kickstarter open this week!

 

[WinterCharm]

Sorry if this has been asked previously, but what would you recommend as the maximum CPU air cooler height while using the solid panels? With the solid panels not being recommended for triple slot GPUs to prevent choking, I was curious if there is a lower recommended cpu cooler height with the solid sides for similar reasons.

That being said I'm very excited for this case and hoping to see the Kickstarter open this week!

For CPU Air Coolers like the NH L12S, it's okay to run against the side panel. Just be sure to set the fan to pull air through the heatsink, and exhaust it toward the motherboard so air flowing between the motherboard and beneath the Low profile heatsink can carry the hot exhaust away.

The problem with 3 slot GPUs on the solid panels is that most GPU coolers have their fans right against the panel, while low profile CPU coolers have fans that are *beneath* the fins.

 

[smalltownboi]

That limitation comes from there needing to be a place for the screws on the bottom / top panel to attach to the front / rear panel, as well as the thickness of the front / rear panel as they are right now. With very square radiators, due to the bumps in the corners, it will be tricky getting past them. The case was designed with the HardwareLabs GTS 280 in mind, so that would be your best bet. If you want to go the AIO route for ease of setting things up, I'd go with a 240mm AIO instead, for the safest / easiest route.



The case was designed specifically to support the HardwareLabs GTS 280, because it's the best performing 280mm radiator right now. ?



CPU Coolers up to a Noctua L12S (the 70mm version) will fit, as that's the new cooler height restriction. For cooling a 5900 / 5950X I would suggest an AIO for best performance, at least until the SPK comes out, but with an underplot, the L12S will suffice in a pinch, as it's one of the best performing coolers under 70mm.



Temp improvements will depend on the full specs (especially the thermal output) of the hardware you use. In general, thermals should improve significantly. There are some instances (with particular GPU coolers) where you will actually have to turn DOWN the case fans to increase temps. IIRC, @gelbetron during one of our beta testing simulations found this:

Case fans at 66% - gpu 80c​

Case fans at 50% gpu 76c​

This is because the airflow is overwhelming the GPU cooler exhaust on some GPUs... Airflow in this case is so strong it's almost funny ?

But in general, you'll have more clearance than in the DanCase A4, and better airflow, even in the top >> bottom configuration.



This is true, the NF A14x25's are not out. They are supposed to come out next year, based on Noctua's published roadmap. Still waiting on KS to finally give me the green light. Website is being updated... but will be ready to go soon.

-------------------------

While we all wait, here's a Compatibility Chart

And here are some beauty shots of the case:

Credit for these last 3 images goes to the beta testers <3

----------

Edit: whoops. I posted the full resolution Compatibility chart (14.5K) was causing the forum thread to become unstable if you interact with it. Uhh, I just resized it to a lower-res version (4.3K) :3

Edit 2: found a minor error with the compatibility chart. Now fixed. If you caught it, and messaged me, thank you <3

Correct me if I am wrong. I've heard that the corsair hydro x lineup has been sourced from multiple OEMs. The XR5 280mm looks very similar to the HWL 280 GTS. The dimensions too. Can someone confirm this please?

 

[DrHudacris]

CPU Coolers up to a Noctua L12S (the 70mm version) will fit, as that's the new cooler height restriction. For cooling a 5900 / 5950X I would suggest an AIO for best performance, at least until the SPK comes out, but with an underplot, the L12S will suffice in a pinch, as it's one of the best performing coolers under 70mm.

Subtle hint at the performance of the SPK? Very impressive!

 

[Qzrx]

Correct me if I am wrong. I've heard that the corsair hydro x lineup has been sourced from multiple OEMs. The XR5 280mm looks very similar to the HWL 280 GTS. The dimensions too. Can someone confirm this please?

The XR5 is a HWLabs GTS-L radiator. It's nearly identical to the GTS, except it has two fewer channels for water making it slightly slimmer, slightly more restrictive, and have slightly less cooling capacity. Otherwise, they're identical.

The best radiator/fan combination for Winter One will likely be 280GTS radiators with NF-A12x25's using the NA-SFMA1 adapter brackets.

 

[Qzrx]

I'll actually take that post a step further and say that your best-performing (for 98% of cases) setup will be:

2x 280GTS radiators
4x NF-A12x25 fans
MCP50X pump (exceptions for short GPU's where you can wedge a D5 in there)

 

[Ilyu]

Thanks for the chart! I'm wondering about 1 thing: You say fans + radiators = 57mm while the case fans are 15/25mm - is there a reason for this or is just just because the "normal" case fans are those sizes? I guess 280GTS(29,6) + P14s (27)= 56,6 should fit. But when not using a radiator you are stuck to 25mm?

While I also claimed that the NF-A12x25 fans with the shroud are the best (based on a test from my favorit hardware site), this test also proves that the P14 is only 0,5 degrees behind. We're talking about (for me at least) 4 * 28,9€ + 2 * 10€ which would be 135,6€ vs. buying the value pack (getting 5 fans) for 26,85€. Additionally the P14 offer daisy chaining.

Edit: talking about the data of this test

 

[crackerlegs]

The easy things first: NF-14x25 are not yet released, the cpu cooler clearance has changed to 70mm (see previous page) and depending on what you'll run you temp improvements vs the DAN could be huge. (its more than double the size)

With the fans it's harder. You have to decide on the use case, and I think if you put a big heatsink in the case and fans to push air through it might be a different case than having 2 radiators. With that being said, I would assume that you don't need that much static pressure as you're not forcing air through the radiator when using the heatsink. So maybe a Fractal HF-14 Venturi might be a better choice. (only assumptions here)

For the 280GTS the best fan you can buy is actually the NF-A12x25 with a shroud to mount to the 140mm, then the P12/ P14 and then the NF-A14. (if you measure performance/noise) In the end we're talking 1-3° here, so I guess going for the P14s should be the reasonable choice.

Very useful, thank you. With the view of getting the SPK, it sounds like I would need fans with higher static pressure anyway, which the P14 should accommodate.

From this video I note that although the DB is the same, the noctua's have a much more pleasant humming sound - Optimum Tech Fan Test but are four times the price. Tough cookie.

 

[mithr4ndr]

For CPU Air Coolers like the NH L12S, it's okay to run against the side panel. Just be sure to set the fan to pull air through the heatsink, and exhaust it toward the motherboard so air flowing between the motherboard and beneath the Low profile heatsink can carry the hot exhaust away.

with NH L12+ solid side panel and 3 slot gpu with vented panel on gpu side, what is the push/pull case combination you recommend? Still “air tunnel” from bottom -> top?

 

[namo]

What is the best D5/res combo that can fit in this case?

 

[WinterCharm]

with NH L12+ solid side panel and 3 slot gpu with vented panel on gpu side, what is the push/pull case combination you recommend? Still “air tunnel” from bottom -> top?

Generally speaking we don't encourage mixing panels. So if you go with a 3 slot GPU it would make the most sense to also have a ventilated panel on the other side. In that configuration, all-exhaust becomes the best airflow pattern, letting the case draw intake from the side panels, and vent it out the top and bottom. The Airflow Post, Earlier in this Thread has a long discussion about best and worst practices for the case.

What is the best D5/res combo that can fit in this case?

That really depends on the size of your GPU. With a full size GPU, one of the Swiftech pumps, like the MCP50X or 35X becomes the best option. With a shorter GPU and water block (maybe a 3080 / 3090 FE or 1080Ti mini waterblocked), you could fit a D5 if the GPU is 65+ mm shorter than the case.

 

[Arviel]

Generally speaking we don't encourage mixing panels. So if you go with a 3 slot GPU it would make the most sense to also have a ventilated panel on the other side. In that configuration, all-exhaust becomes the best airflow pattern, letting the case draw intake from the side panels, and vent it out the top and bottom. The Airflow Post, Earlier in this Thread has a long discussion about best and worst practices for the case.



That really depends on the size of your GPU. With a full size GPU, one of the Swiftech pumps, like the MCP50X or 35X becomes the best option. With a shorter GPU and water block (maybe a 3080 / 3090 FE or 1080Ti mini waterblocked), you could fit a D5 if the GPU is 65+ mm shorter than the case.

If I understand the chart correctly, you can fit a 154mm tall res/pump combo on the bracket correct? If so, that adds so many more possibilities. I am actually surprised there is that much room in front of the GPU for that bracket to fit.

 

[WinterCharm]

If I understand the chart correctly, you can fit a 154mm tall res/pump combo on the bracket correct? If so, that adds so many more possibilities. I am actually surprised there is that much room in front of the GPU for that bracket to fit.

It's because the Power Supply is shifted over to the side panel on the CPU side *and* the GPU is shorter... but yes, because the GPU area was designed for 3 slots, and the power supply is moved out of the way, it allows for some pretty nice pump / res combinations, as shown I the image

One of the big benefits of going with less of a central spine in this case. The Retail version will have a beam that runs across the entire case, but it'll be a lot less obstructive.

 

[smalltownboi]

It's because the Power Supply is shifted over to the side panel on the CPU side *and* the GPU is shorter... but yes, because the GPU area was designed for 3 slots, and the power supply is moved out of the way, it allows for some pretty nice pump / res combinations, as shown I the image

One of the big benefits of going with less of a central spine in this case. The Retail version will have a beam that runs across the entire case, but it'll be a lot less obstructive.

So there would be a central beam that connects the front and back panel? I assume this is one of the changes made from the feedback of the beta testers?
That would give more rigidity to the structure of the case

 

[gelbetron]

So there would be a central beam that connects the front and back panel? I assume this is one of the changes made from the feedback of the beta testers?
That would give more rigidity to the structure of the case

That was exactly why. The beta cases are a bit wobbly until they're fully assembled

 

[WinterCharm]

So there would be a central beam that connects the front and back panel? I assume this is one of the changes made from the feedback of the beta testers?
That would give more rigidity to the structure of the case

That was exactly why. The beta cases are a bit wobbly until they're fully assembled

Exactly. We found out *very* quickly during the beta that you had to be *insanely* precise sliding in the side panels and balancing the components of the case. While it was *very* sturdy once fully assembled, it was a royal PITA to actually put it together, because if the front / rear weren't perfectly parallel, sliding in the side panels became an exorcism rather than a build experience...

The need for better side panel tolerances, as well as the issues with lining up the front/rear are what led to a central beam and switching to machining the side panels. Ultimately, these things combined will make for a far better build experience, and *much* better case...

I was pretty dissatisfied already with the supplier of the laser cut panels, and had dropped them entirely, but now those parts will go to a machine shop that I have confidence in, who's work has already proven to be stellar.

Yes, this increased the cost ate into margins a bit, and overall hurt me (I'm not raising the starting price above $319), which is why selecting between solid/perforated panels is now no longer a "$0" option (Cost difference is due to the machine time for drilling holes), but the increase in quality is *well* worth it...

Every part in Winter One is now CNC machined, aside from the power button bracket (the part that holds the key switch, due to really tight corners needed) and the Power Supply Bracket (the thing that holds your PSU, due to it being wasteful to mill from a block to make an L shaped bracket)

 

[Arviel]

I keep visiting this thread every day. I am obsessed with this case.

 

[WinterCharm]

I keep visiting this thread every day. I am obsessed with this case.

You and me, both ?

In all seriousness, Kickstarter needs to hurry up and approve everything already...

 

[efegue]

Yup, me2... I want that Xmas present! CMon KS! I didn't know it took so long to get approved
Can't you call them or use the support to speed up things @WinterCharm ?