Production Winter One -- 15.6L SFF case, 3090 Support, 3-slot GPUs, dual 280mm radiators, CFD Optimized Design

WinterCharm

Airflow Optimizer
Original poster
Jan 19, 2019
368
1,608
Sucks you have some delays but great transparency as always!

From a personal view does this have a knock on impact to the silver kickstarters backers? Should we expect shipment early May now or are you in a position to order those pieces on the original timeframe?

Instead of responding here, I decided this question was important enough to directly address in the update. :)

Tl;Dr: Probably a slight delay, but not more than 1-2 weeks, as a lot of the issues that tripped up Batch 1 will not be present for Batch 2, because packaging will already be here, and some parts have already been run.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Goatee

WinterCharm

Airflow Optimizer
Original poster
Jan 19, 2019
368
1,608
haven't done one of these responses in a bit, so here we go:


Getting back to the Chimney vs Ventilated Side Panel config question, surely an important factor would be whether you're using water-cooled CPU and GPU loop. In that case, the airflow of the Chimney design will be less constrained by CPU and GPU heatsinks, so the temperature penalty should be smaller, while still have the somewhat quieter sealed design. Discuss.

Even in air cooled mode, with very large heatsinks, the airflow is so strong if you don't turn down fan RPM, you will actually impede the exhaust flow from GPU's that exhaust out the long edges. The point of the airlfow is to make sure all hot air goes away from the components, and deliver cool air to all the heatsink fans. In testing, I remember @JDragon 's build had considerable temperature improvements from turning *down* fan RPM.

Anyone planning to air-cool Winter One with solid panels? If so, what do you plan to use for heatsinks? So far I've heard L12S (maybe Arctic passive cooler but thats gonna be a challenge). I'm looking at server heatsinks that are 70mm tall with a vapor chamber and supports AM4. Haven't found one yet and I doubt I will. Would love to hear what others plan to do.
L12S with the fans set to pull air through the fins and push it toward the motherboard is the best setup in Winter One.

I am. I have the NH-L12S. It's a breeze to install and you don't need access to the back of the motherboard - I'm so impressed with the design but it would be great if it was fully black in the future /gush. For fans I've gone for the Arctic P14's (multi-pack is about 30% of the price of 4 noctua NF-A12x25 and they perform pretty much the same). I'll still be using the fan.

I've got a EVGA 3070 XC3 ultra but would like a 3080 FE/XC3 ultra - anything less than 2.5 slots should perform well with solid side panels.
The good news is that, even with solid panels, if the card is a true 3-slot card, there's about 9mm of space between the card and the inside of the panel. So it *can* work in a punch. It's not ideal, but it also should not be impossible to run. For context, the power supply has 7.5mm of space between it and the side panel, and testing shows the fan gets adequate intake airflow even when it's facing the solid panels. But a GPU puts out a lot more heat, and needs a lot more airflow. With the spacing as it stands in v12, up to 2.75 slot cards should be fine with solid panels! (up from 2.5 slot cards in v10).

------------------

There'll be another update on Sunday.

today is going to be spent doing more QC :)
 
Last edited:

Koxx5D

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Oct 26, 2020
94
72
@WinterCharm can you give us dimensions on the pump bracket?
I don't know if this will help you, but you can look at answer A9.

Here


Q9. Do we know the size of the pump bracket?


A9: The pump bracket itself is 73mm x 40mm. It was designed to allow for the mounting of a wide variety of pumps, in many orientations. It can be attached to any object with 2 threaded screw holes located within a 33 x 63 mm rectangle. (example: if a pump has 2 screws, located 25mm apart, horizontally, the bracket will fit). Or if it has 3 screws in a triangle 20 mm apart, and 12mm high, the bracket will fit at least 2 of them. The Braket Can be Mounted Planar (flat against the front panel) or Perpendicular (Sticking Out), in a total of 4 different positions on the front Panel. This should give you tons of flexibility to mount your almost any pump.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: WinterCharm

WinterCharm

Airflow Optimizer
Original poster
Jan 19, 2019
368
1,608

UPDATE 16: Preparing for Launch

Quick Updates​

  • Over the last week, we QC’d 887 parts
  • Packaging foam arrived today; it looks excellent, but I want to keep the unboxing a surprise
  • We are expecting another shipment of parts tomorrow
  • Additionally, the second-to-last shipment of parts is arriving later this week or early next week, which means we can start shipping cases.
  • The final shipment of parts contains remakes of QC rejects, and its arrival (est. late next week) will allow us to finish shipping Batch 1
  • Rev 7 of the User Manual is now more readable and contains cable lengths!

QC and Part Shipments details​

All 2592 parts currently in our possession have passed QC3.

Currently, we have 2,592 out of 3,085 parts. This is 84% of the amount that we need to ship cases. 144 parts are scheduled for delivery tomorrow, which will bring the total number of parts up to 2,736 out of 3,085, roughly 89% of what we need to ship cases.

An additional 282 parts are on the way to be delivered later this week or early next week (awaiting tracking information). This will bring our total up to 3,018 / 3,085. 98% of parts needed, at which point we can start shipping cases!

As soon as we are able, we will begin shipping cases in the order of backer number. We expect to receive a final shipment containing the remaining 67 parts (QC remakes) late next week, at which point we will be able to ship out any remaining cases in Batch 1.

User Manual Update​

Winter One Manual v12 Rev 7 is now live. Changes include:
  • An improved font for better readability
  • A table of cable lengths for those of you making custom cables (note: these are taken from the *center* of each cable)
  • Added a water cooling loop guide, including guidance on setting up countercurrent flow for solid panels.
  • Revised the Air Cooling fan curve for less noise with no performance loss
  • Added Warranty Information All Winter One cases come with a 10 Year Limited Warranty
  • Minor spelling / grammar fixes

That's all for now. Fingers crossed for the last 2 shipments!!! :)
 

KongCav

Cable Smoosher
Apr 27, 2020
8
9
Almost wish I had opted for the black version so it'd arrive sooner 😍
I apologize if this has been answered already, but do you know when batch 2 with the silver version is going out?
 
  • Like
Reactions: WinterCharm

Nomad

Efficiency Noob
Mar 2, 2017
7
18
@WinterCharm the new manual looks pretty good, have some questions for you regarding the Cable lengths section:

  • For the 6 pin power cable > pump bracket/ drive cage, I assume we can substitute SATA or Molex runs at the same length for these items? Maybe it's too early for me to be thinking about this but "6 Pin" power to me is PCIE power and I don't know why I'd be running that to those areas. Or are you referring to 6 pin as in the plug on the PSU?
  • Do these lengths change at all for SFX vs SFX-L PSUs?
Also another question that popped into my mind this morning, if you're using an all exhaust configuration but only one radiator, would there be an effect worth noting regarding cooling due to the pressure differentials between the exhaust fans with the radiator vs without? Would there be an optimum solution for this? My plan was to just run a single radiator at the top for the CPU and to leave the GPU air cooled, but there's nothing really stopping me from tossing another radiator in for the CPU if there would be some benefit overall.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WinterCharm

WinterCharm

Airflow Optimizer
Original poster
Jan 19, 2019
368
1,608
@WinterCharm can you give us dimensions on the pump bracket?
Id also like to know where exactly its mounted to the panel so I can visualize pump/res combo placement.

I've got a bunch of relevant pump bracket information for all of you :)

Distance from Inside of Side Panel to Pump Bracket: 1.42 cm



Distance from Bottom of (thick section) Spine to Pump Bracket Edge: 3.0 cm


Pump Bracket Screw Slot footprint (for screws): 2.25 x 6.25 cm max

NOTE: minimum footprint is a triangular 0.45cm x 0.92cm

Total Height beneath spine, and above radiators / fans: 8.2cm (PB in vertical position)



Keep in mind, the Pump Bracket is placed where it is because the Drive Cage also uses the same screw holes. Additionally, the way the cutouts on the PB are designed, is to allow for a variety of pumps to be mounted. Every company has different mounts on their pumps or pump tops, making the task of supporting all of them a challenge. For mounting under the spine, and a full length GPU, you can use the full width of the PB. For mounting to the side of the spine, you can use all but the left-most cutout.

@WinterCharm any news on shipping to EU with pre-paid duties/custom/import fees?
Yes!!! I finally got a proper answer from our carriers on this, and they said this is a service they can offer in certain countries. In the future we'll likely have it set up automatically through our payment system.

If you want to use this option, please DM me on Kickstarter. If it's available for your country we're happy to do this. as we generate shipping labels for your case. For now, It'll have to be a manual thing via paypal, because we're still working on Stripe integration. T_T

In the future, we offer this directly at the time of checkout. :)

Almost wish I had opted for the black version so it'd arrive sooner 😍
I apologize if this has been answered already, but do you know when batch 2 with the silver version is going out?
We're planning to open additional Batch 2 orders about 1 week to 10 days after Batch 1 ships out.

I think our realistic goal for Batch 2 is going to be shipping Batch 2 cases 6-8 weeks later.
We're going to try and go as fast as we can, and test our supply chain, BUT it's still untested, so I'm reluctant to say "exactly 5 weeks" but we will be internally treating 5 weeks as a "true target" going forward.

We also already have on-hand many of the things that caused delay on Batch 1 (namely packaging, boxes, and some parts that take particularly long to produce have already been made for Batch 2). While a lot of supply chain things were resolved with Batch 1, there are usually unforeseen issues.

If we can get each batch faster than the previous one, and batch 2 comes in under 6 weeks, I will be really happy.

@WinterCharm the new manual looks pretty good, have some questions for you regarding the Cable lengths section:

  • For the 6 pin power cable > pump bracket/ drive cage, I assume we can substitute SATA or Molex runs at the same length for these items? Maybe it's too early for me to be thinking about this but "6 Pin" power to me is PCIE power and I don't know why I'd be running that to those areas. Or are you referring to 6 pin as in the plug on the PSU?
  • Do these lengths change at all for SFX vs SFX-L PSUs?
Also another question that popped into my mind this morning, if you're using an all exhaust configuration but only one radiator, would there be an effect worth noting regarding cooling due to the pressure differentials between the exhaust fans with the radiator vs without? Would there be an optimum solution for this? My plan was to just run a single radiator at the top for the CPU and to leave the GPU air cooled, but there's nothing really stopping me from tossing another radiator in for the CPU if there would be some benefit overall.

Great questions!

The 6-pin cable we are referring to is the PSU-side that converts to SATA / MOLEX power, yes. And the lengths are expected to stay the same. For things like the Drive Cage, you will want 4 sata connecters at the end, which are spaced 2.25 cm apart. (More detail and clarity will be added to these tables in Revision 8 of the manual which should be out in 5-10 days)

The Current Cable Lengths are for SFX Power Supplies! An SFX-L Table will be added, and we will be sure to label both for clarity :)
  • 6-pin cable should be 1 cm shorter
  • 8-pin GPU PCIE Cable should be 1.5 cm longer
  • 24pin should be the same
  • EPS (8-pin CPU cable) should be the same
  • C13/14 power cable should be the same.
Also, I said this in the update, but we need to add this to the manual as well -- Lengths are measured from from the center of each cable!
 
Last edited:

WinterCharm

Airflow Optimizer
Original poster
Jan 19, 2019
368
1,608
Do the two screw holes on the bracket for bracket-to-panel fastening also line up with the spine's slotted holes? I'm wondering if I can turn that spine into my friend rather than enemy.
Unfortunately, they do not. That's a trick of the perspective in that image.

However, the spine itself is a very useful mounting point. m.3x0.5 screws can be put through the slots on it, and used for mounting stuff, as long as it is threaded. Mounting stuff to the spine is totally acceptable.
 

bomaaye

Caliper Novice
Dec 15, 2020
22
6
I've got a bunch of relevant pump bracket information for all of you :)

Distance from Inside of Side Panel to Pump Bracket: 1.42 cm

If I want a pump/res combo installed on the bracket, how feasible is mounting it "offset" from the centre of the PB, meaning mounting the pump as close to the edge of the side panel as possible?

For context I'm hoping the pump/res I want to use has a 50mm tube diameter, and given its 62mmx62mm base, leaves about 5-6mm of space either side.
From previous posts about the horizontal distance from the case side panel and spine, I would need to mount the pump about 5mm (0.5cm) away from the side panel, equivalent to 1cm extruding out from the bracket placement in the case.
 

WinterCharm

Airflow Optimizer
Original poster
Jan 19, 2019
368
1,608
If I want a pump/res combo installed on the bracket, how feasible is mounting it "offset" from the centre of the PB, meaning mounting the pump as close to the edge of the side panel as possible?

For context I'm hoping the pump/res I want to use has a 50mm tube diameter, and given its 62mmx62mm base, leaves about 5-6mm of space either side.
From previous posts about the horizontal distance from the case side panel and spine, I would need to mount the pump about 5mm (0.5cm) away from the side panel, equivalent to 1cm extruding out from the bracket placement in the case.
That's completely fine. The Pump Bracket was designed with this In mind. It's recommended that you use 3 points to mount to the bracket (just for dimensional stability - 3 points define a plane). The bracket was designed with all kinds of mounting options and orientations in mind, and was tested for holding up to 2kg with a long-term vibrational load (as pumps behave), so you can mount a relatively heavy pump / res to it.

In our weight testing, we applied the 3KG to the farthest edge (a worst case scenario) of the PB, when testing, and it started to deform (elastically, for the engineers here) at 2.75Kg in the horizontal position, and didn't even deform in the vertical position. We set the spec to 2kg to account for a ~35% safety factor + vibrational loading. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Koxx5D and bomaaye

Post-Newt

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Oct 12, 2020
100
228
If I want a pump/res combo installed on the bracket, how feasible is mounting it "offset" from the centre of the PB, meaning mounting the pump as close to the edge of the side panel as possible?

For context I'm hoping the pump/res I want to use has a 50mm tube diameter, and given its 62mmx62mm base, leaves about 5-6mm of space either side.
From previous posts about the horizontal distance from the case side panel and spine, I would need to mount the pump about 5mm (0.5cm) away from the side panel, equivalent to 1cm extruding out from the bracket placement in the case.
Mind sharing what pump/res combo you're looking at?