Stalled Winter One -- 15.6L SFF case, 3090 Support, 3-slot GPUs, dual 280mm radiators, CFD Optimized Design

[kodek]

I’m pro Torx. Looks nicer and doesn’t strip. Plus if anyone ever needs to replace one they can replace it with a Phillips or even a flathead if they’re insane.

Yup, torx or hex is the best option.

 

[Post-Newt]

I certainly understand that. It's why we switched to stainless steel screws for the production batch.

So we're talking a minimum of about 40% increase in yield assuming 18-8 over something like 1022. If you use the proper size phillips and keep your inner Hulk suppressed, then stripping shouldn't be a problem.

 

[mxj1]

I'm curious as to what people would prefer between Philips w/ no included tool, and Hex drive flat heads, with an included L-key? I'm a bit wary of using Torx because I find that the benefits it provides over a hex drive are not so great that it warrants the extra inconvenience. (I'm aware that Apple uses Torx, but they also do it because they don't want you inside their machines )

Trust, but Verify.

I think that since Phillips is easier to replace it shouldn't be included since you can buy them easily. You cant buy good Torx screws easily. Hex would be ok too I just want something that wont strip the moment I cough on it.

I’m pro Torx. Looks nicer and doesn’t strip. Plus if anyone ever needs to replace one they can replace it with a Phillips or even a flathead if they’re insane.

I can appreciate a the visual appeal of a torx fastener... However, my OCD is gonna go crazy if every screw on the case is not torx - and I despise having to use multiple (sizes/types) of tools to work on something, and this would be the only PC related device that I'd need to get my Torx drivers for. Aside from appearances, I think Torx is completely unnecessary here... and probably a cost-up?

So we're talking a minimum of about 40% increase in yield assuming 18-8 over something like 1022. If you use the proper size phillips and keep your inner Hulk suppressed, then stripping shouldn't be a problem.

I agree 100%. The other guys have mentioned stripping philips head screws several times. I haven't had any issues when using the appropriate size screw driver, and I've seen almost every popular youtuber use the wrong screw driver and then complain about stripping.

If you insist on something other than quality, stainless philips, I could get on board with hex and a hex driver included.

My preference is a stainless philips used throughout.

 

[Retrias]

thank you so much for the answer , I have signed up to get notified for batch 2

 

[carlover670]

Is it too late to make torx an opt-in option? Idk when this stuff gets determined. Maybe send them separately?

 

[incunabula]

I have to admit that I prefer hex/torx to phillips. That being said, Linus will ding you for not using phillips . Either way, I can always source my own screws if I really feel that motivated. Use whatever makes the most sense for the wide audience.

 

[eblvrm]

@WinterCharm What's the max gpu length if one want to use dual 280 rads + D5 pump? Is there any gpu compatible with such config except Ampere FE cards? I was thinking about such build, but as the things stands there is still no official FE seller in Poland and the last drop of FE cards for Poles was two months ago, since then nothing :/

 

[biopunk]

Never seen a torx screw in my life, only philips, slotted and hex. I'm from eastern Europe, now in UK.

 

[carlover670]

Will an ifiixit toolkit have the correct bits for the case?
Phillips 000, 00, 0, 1, 2
Torx T2, T3, T4, T5
Security Torx TR6, TR7, TR8, TR9, TR10, TR15, TR20, TR25
Hex 0.7, 0.9, 1.3, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5, 4, 4.5, 5 mm

Just for giggles:
Pentalobe P2, P5, P6

 

[G23 Mr Gimp]

I've been faffing with Torx screws for the past 15 years in electronics and indeed computer chassis (UK) and they do have their advantages, but most of that can be negated if you use the correct driver for Phillips and don't tighten it like a crack addled silverback.

 

[rfarmer]

I have torx screws for my Ghost S1 and once I got a proper set of drivers they are very nice. I used to have a MI-6 and the designer used zinc plated steel screws which were really nice. I never had any issues with paint flaking or stripping the screws.

 

[carlover670]

I've been faffing with Torx screws for the past 15 years in electronics and indeed computer chassis (UK) and they do have their advantages, but most of that can be negated if you use the correct driver for Phillips and don't tighten it like a crack addled silverback.

My problem is that I can unscrew a Phillips screw with the wrong size. I sorta forget that there is a correct sized bit because the one I have right next to me works anyways. Result is I slowly strip the screw because I over tighten. The screw is tight but because of the wrong bit size, there is some wiggle. I bet thats how alot of ppl strip their screws. Torx screws will remove this problem because I reckon that the only torx bit ppl will have is for Winter One. It will be The Winter One Screw.

 

[carlover670]

I have torx screws for my Ghost S1 and once I got a proper set of drivers they are very nice. I used to have a MI-6 and the designer used zinc plated steel screws which were really nice. I never had any issues with paint flaking or stripping the screws.

I once took apart my MacBook which had both torx and phillips. Even with the proper sized bits from the ifixit tool kit, I still managed to strip a bit of paint off the Phillips but the torx screws were pristine. I do like how you can apply more torque to a torx without it slipping. Torx were actually more forgiving to my clumsy caffeine fueled hands.

 

[Post-Newt]

@WinterCharm I think a fastener list is desired in order to give those with a torx/hex preference a chance to search and order their equivalent fasteners before batch 1 arrives. (Please don't let this distract you from the QA/QC work you previously mentioned)

 

[Qzrx]

@WinterCharm What's the max gpu length if one want to use dual 280 rads + D5 pump? Is there any gpu compatible with such config except Ampere FE cards? I was thinking about such build, but as the things stands there is still no official FE seller in Poland and the last drop of FE cards for Poles was two months ago, since then nothing :/

Depends on your D5 top and orientation, but you need to keep the GPU to no more than about 232mm in length. Thankfully, most reference 3090 or 3080 blocks are ~230mm so you should have some options.

 

[eblvrm]

Depends on your D5 top and orientation, but you need to keep the GPU to no more than about 232mm in length. Thankfully, most reference 3090 or 3080 blocks are ~230mm so you should have some options.

I was thinking about using XSPC D5 Res v3, Alphacool Eisdecke Top/Res combo or Alphacool Eisfluegel + Eisdecke. Those are the smallest top/res combos I could find.

 

[Qzrx]

I was thinking about using XSPC D5 Res v3, Alphacool Eisdecke Top/Res combo or Alphacool Eisfluegel + Eisdecke. Those are the smallest top/res combos I could find.

I’ve got a D5 NEXT paired with an ultitop and a modified flow meter right now as well as a eisdecke combo on the way. Both should work from my measurements but until I have my 3090 block and a retail case in hand I can’t make promises.

 

[robojim]

@WinterCharm FWIW Apple doesn't use Torx which is a standard six point but some weird 5 point screw head.

 

[kodek]

@WinterCharm FWIW Apple doesn't use Torx which is a standard six point but some weird 5 point screw head.

yes, it's called pentalobe screw

 

[WinterCharm]

I'm gutted I missed the KS but I can't wait for Batch 2.
3 questions, apologies if I've missed the answer to either.

The power switch, is the cut out circular if so what diameter as I'd like to perhaps swap it for a vandal switch if possible.

Any chance of getting the screw sizes for the case, I'm also in the boat of preferring torx so would like to swap them out ideally.

If I went with a single 280, would that open allowing for DTX? If so any idea on the clearance beneath as to whether I could fit fans etc.

The opening is 1.6cm in diameter. I think once you try the switch, and see how good it feels, you probably won't swap it out Vandal switches are nice, but the Winter One switches use Mechanical Keyboard keyswitches behind them (Kialh Box Navy Thick Clicks)... so they feel incredible.

@WinterCharm I think a fastener list is desired in order to give those with a torx/hex preference a chance to search and order their equivalent fasteners before batch 1 arrives. (Please don't let this distract you from the QA/QC work you previously mentioned)

I'll include a screw / fastener list in the Manual, with actual screw names / sizes, so it's easy for anyone to find the appropriate replacements. I went with M3 x 0.5 threaded screws *everywhere* because products that mix Metric / Imperial screw standards are a pet peeve of mine. Head Types and Lengths will be provided in a table, with exact counts, of course.

So we're talking a minimum of about 40% increase in yield assuming 18-8 over something like 1022. If you use the proper size phillips and keep your inner Hulk suppressed, then stripping shouldn't be a problem.

Correct, we'll be going with 18-8. The stripping concern with philips is probably a non-issue with an upgraded screw. However, the other main concern is a driver slipping out of the screw and scratching the case. That, I've seen happen with Philips more than with Hex or Torx... so that *is* a concern.

I can appreciate a the visual appeal of a torx fastener... However, my OCD is gonna go crazy if every screw on the case is not torx - and I despise having to use multiple (sizes/types) of tools to work on something, and this would be the only PC related device that I'd need to get my Torx drivers for. Aside from appearances, I think Torx is completely unnecessary here... and probably a cost-up?

I agree 100%. The other guys have mentioned stripping philips head screws several times. I haven't had any issues when using the appropriate size screw driver, and I've seen almost every popular youtuber use the wrong screw driver and then complain about stripping.

If you insist on something other than quality, stainless philips, I could get on board with hex and a hex driver included.

My preference is a stainless philips used throughout.

That's a completely fair and understandable sentiment. If we use anything aside from a Philips Screw, I will FOR SURE include the correct tool in the box. And it will be *one* driver size. (Ie: T10 or Hex 2.5mm), and all screws in the box, used for the case build, will be the same drive type. Because anything other than that is complete insanity. Obviously, off the shelf parts you use may come with something slightly different, and that's okay. But when It comes to building in Winter One, I want to make the process pleasant.

On that note: I despise hex keys. They have garbage ergonomics -- they get lost easily, they're thin, uncomfortable to hold, and will make your hands hurt, if you spend 2 hours dealing with them. For that reason, If I go with Hex, I will include a hex screwdriver because anything short of that, in my eyes, is subpar.

Same with Torx... The Tool you need to build the case will come with the case, in the box, and will not be painful to use. And you are right -- A Torx Driver is going to be 2x the cost of a Hex Driver, easily. The screws are comparable in cost, but the tools being more expensive is the main reason I'm leaning away from Torx at the moment. As nice as they are, it's also just harder to find replacements.

Is it too late to make torx an opt-in option? Idk when this stuff gets determined. Maybe send them separately?

Adding Options adds further complexity in sourcing, supply chain, and more. This is still a small project, and our first batch, and a very young company. It would hurt our ability to deliver quickly. This decision is probably going to be finalized sometime around the end of this week, as that's our deadline for fastener orders.

I have to admit that I prefer hex/torx to phillips. That being said, Linus will ding you for not using phillips . Either way, I can always source my own screws if I really feel that motivated. Use whatever makes the most sense for the wide audience.

Hahaha yes, I'm well aware Linus will not be pleased if we go with anything aside from Philips. Of course, if we do this, we'll include a tool in the box.

@WinterCharm What's the max gpu length if one want to use dual 280 rads + D5 pump? Is there any gpu compatible with such config except Ampere FE cards? I was thinking about such build, but as the things stands there is still no official FE seller in Poland and the last drop of FE cards for Poles was two months ago, since then nothing :/

Quite a few of the 3090 Reference Board cards (from EVGA and others) have short PCBs that make them ideal for use with the various water blocks out there You do not *need* a 3090FE to do a dual 280 + D5 build in Winter One.

Will an ifiixit toolkit have the correct bits for the case?
Phillips 000, 00, 0, 1, 2
Torx T2, T3, T4, T5
Security Torx TR6, TR7, TR8, TR9, TR10, TR15, TR20, TR25
Hex 0.7, 0.9, 1.3, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5, 4, 4.5, 5 mm

Just for giggles:
Pentalobe P2, P5, P6

If we go with Torx they'll be T10/TR10, and if we go with Hex they will be 2.5mm, so you should be fine. But either way, we'll include a driver in the box.

I've been faffing with Torx screws for the past 15 years in electronics and indeed computer chassis (UK) and they do have their advantages, but most of that can be negated if you use the correct driver for Phillips and don't tighten it like a crack addled silverback.

That's true, especially if we go with 18-8 stainless screws. They're not that prone to stripping, although they *can* be stripped if you use the wrong size driver, and try hard enough.

My problem is that I can unscrew a Phillips screw with the wrong size. I sorta forget that there is a correct sized bit because the one I have right next to me works anyways. Result is I slowly strip the screw because I over tighten. The screw is tight but because of the wrong bit size, there is some wiggle. I bet thats how alot of ppl strip their screws.

Yeah, that's one of the common issues with Philips screws -- people using the wrong size driver still usually can get the screw to work... which inherently encourages incorrect use, and over time can lead to issues.

I once took apart my MacBook which had both torx and phillips. Even with the proper sized bits from the ifixit tool kit, I still managed to strip a bit of paint off the Phillips but the torx screws were pristine. I do like how you can apply more torque to a torx without it slipping. Torx were actually more forgiving to my clumsy caffeine fueled hands.

Yeah. That's one of the reasons I'm leaning away from philips, even though it would be easier for people to just find a tool laying around.

@WinterCharm FWIW Apple doesn't use Torx which is a standard six point but some weird 5 point screw head.

Just looked into it, and you're right they use Pentalobe on the newer products. (rounded 5 point star shaped drivers).