Stalled Winter One -- 15.6L SFF case, 3090 Support, 3-slot GPUs, dual 280mm radiators, CFD Optimized Design

thelaughingman

SFF Guru
Jul 14, 2018
1,413
1,566
There are actually some more supported radiators:

However the hardware labs one is 153mm wide vs 140, which should provide some extra cooling performance.
IIRC both of those rads are HWLabs' OEMs. The actual GTS is wider because of the additional water channel on each side vs. the other ones not having them. my point still stand, only HWLabs rads supported ?
 
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Post-Newt

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Oct 12, 2020
105
247
IIRC both of those rads are HWLabs' OEMs. The actual GTS is wider because of the additional water channel on each side vs. the other ones not having them. my point still stand, only HWLabs rads supported ?
This case catering to the best performance 280 rad is part of why I'm supporting it. I literally had to use a hammer on the NR200 to make a 280GTS fit. For business reasons tho it might make sense to ensure some of the popular AIOs such as the NZXT X63 fit.
 

Ilyu

Trash Compacter
Nov 6, 2019
47
75
Backer #4 here ?
Just orderd a pair 280GTS and saw in the Kickstarter comments that the pump bracket is not final yet - so I just wanted to throw in the D5 Next, maybe it's possible to include the mounting holes ?
 

mithr4ndr

Cable Smoosher
Oct 12, 2020
12
9
Go for Solid Panels if you:
  1. want a quiet case
  2. want to air or liquid cool with a focus on quietness.
  3. like the minimal and very clean look
  4. don't mind being restricted to 2.5 slot GPUs
Go for perforated panels if you:
  1. want the best possible performance
  2. don't mind a bit more noise
  3. want to showcase your build
  4. want to use a 3-slot GPU

from your testing how much more dB of noise does perforated vs solid differs?

if i got perforated now, would solid panels be available for future purchase?
 
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Post-Newt

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Oct 12, 2020
105
247
AFAIK the beta didn't have the dimensions to fit a 280 rad, but only 240.
I've been thinking this case needs an aesthetically pleasing build picture (even if one has to wire 280GTS in place b/c screw holes don't exist in the beta cases) with nice looking runs and waterblocks to gain more attention and get more support for the KS. Not knocking qzrx or the other beta tester builds I've seen b/c they have a very good and practical builds, but chromax gets the likes/upvotes if you know what I mean.
 

WinterCharm

Master of Cramming
Original poster
Jan 19, 2019
428
1,941
Perhaps you've thought of this already, but should the SPK stretch goal be reached, would you consider a "mini" version that's overall 5cm shorter (effectively eliminating radiator support)? This would then allow for purely air cooled builds in a smaller volume, and a totally passive SPK build with no fans and a smaller volume.

The SPK is going to stretch *beyond* the motherboard and GPU... it will reach into the radiator space (top and bottom) on Winter One.... Monstrous cooling requires surface area. ?

@WinterCharm in the part compatibility, the stated max radiator length is 312mm which means the only supported 280mm radiator is the HWLabs? Will 316mm long rad fit somehow? I'm considering the Alphacool ST30 280mm v2 and the Koolance HX-CU1402V rad

As final design tweaks are being made to v11 right now, I'll see what we can do. :) These are mostly minor changes, since the beta was near-final, but QoL improvements like this might be possible...

This case catering to the best performance 280 rad is part of why I'm supporting it. I literally had to use a hammer on the NR200 to make a 280GTS fit. For business reasons tho it might make sense to ensure some of the popular AIOs such as the NZXT X63 fit.

For people who want to use AIOs, there's plenty of 240mm AIO support. 280mm AIO's are often massive, due to the integrated pumps, and it would just add too much volume.

Backer #4 here ?
Just orderd a pair 280GTS and saw in the Kickstarter comments that the pump bracket is not final yet - so I just wanted to throw in the D5 Next, maybe it's possible to include the mounting holes ?

Thanks for sharing! :D Yes, designing a pump bracket that's as flexible as humanly possible is actually quite challenging, but I think we have something that'll work, and give everyone tons of flexibility. Stay tuned because the update in a few days will probably be an absolute treat for all of you eagerly awaiting the pump mount design ?

from your testing how much more dB of noise does perforated vs solid differs?

if i got perforated now, would solid panels be available for future purchase?

2-4 dBa louder, with the exact same fan setup, over the solid side panels. Still very quiet -- the increase in noise will really depend on how loud the fans on your hardware are -- for example, if you have a CPU Cooler with a loud fan, the loudness increase could be even higher. You could fix this by replacing it with fans that are known to be very quiet (ie, Noctua, beQuiet, arctic, etc). Sadly, it's a very hard question to answer, as the answer only makes sense if you use the *same* components to check the delta...

Any of the beta testers have any photos of this case with the gts 280 installed?

No. The beta units were v10, and it wasn't until the beta, when the 3090 FE dropped, that support for large GPUs was requested. When adding a few mm to accommodate the GPUs, it became possible to add a few mm to accommodate larger radiators, and bump up from slim rads + 25mm fans to "standard" 30mm rads + 25mm fans. This is the last minute volume increase I referred to in the v11 changelog.

I've been thinking this case needs an aesthetically pleasing build picture (even if one has to wire 280GTS in place b/c screw holes don't exist in the beta cases) with nice looking runs and waterblocks to gain more attention and get more support for the KS. Not knocking qzrx or the other beta tester builds I've seen b/c they have a very good and practical builds, but chromax gets the likes/upvotes if you know what I mean.

I completely understand. Because of some issues we had with v10, it wasn't possible to get into the hands of as many reviewers as I wanted. LTT should be posting their video at some point, so that's coming up. IMO, the Qzrx build was great because it showcased the awesome density of the system, and its beauty, without using hardline tubing (which would look amazing, but IMO, is impractical for most people).

--------------------

On the SFF.net discord, @br0qn asked: Case looks good man. Curious about how you're achieving carbon neutral, able to elaborate beyond what the info on kickstarter page?

I have an environmental engineer friend who's helping me out with that, but basically, we're re-foresting natural land, working with a nonprofit to do so. All carbon projections are based on assuming that all the saplings fail to become trees and die within a year, so if any of them survive, we'll have extra carbon capacity. Overall, going Carbon neutral involved:

1. Reduce emissions as much as possible. So we went with high fractions of recycled aluminum and steel (less energy intensive to melt vs ore, etc. Some ore-aluminum needed to reach purity.
2. Flat pack EVERYTHING, in environmentally responsible foams to reduce carbon emissions from shipping
3. Use land and sea shipping as much as possible (building a small supply chain to do so), since it’s the best / ton emissions.
4. Use responsible chemical processes (type ii anodize, rather than the cheaper but much worse type i)
5. Make sure manufacturers have proper processing and handling of waste
6. Encourage them to use cleaner energy (choose locations with less coal and more renewables)
7. Anything left over, offset in a scalable way. For our current scale planting trees is actually viable.
8. Avoid carbon credits - yes I can just pay to become carbon neutral, but it’s more sustainable and beneficial to do it myself.

From a business standpoint, yes these restrictions limit my options. Does it cost some margin? Sure. But I see it as a strategic advantage - when regulation comes in the future I’ll have long-standing relationships with emissions-friendly factories. Also, avoid the sharp jump in price of carbon credits as big companies who haven’t gone carbon neutral scramble for them reaches fever pitch when regulations threaten to hurt quarterlies. I see Carbon Neutral as a necessary eventuality, and shortsightedness is a massive threat to operations.
 

Arviel

Trash Compacter
Oct 4, 2020
37
58
The SPK is going to stretch *beyond* the motherboard and GPU... it will reach into the radiator space (top and bottom) on Winter One.... Monstrous cooling requires surface area. ?



As final design tweaks are being made to v11 right now, I'll see what we can do. :) These are mostly minor changes, since the beta was near-final, but QoL improvements like this might be possible...



For people who want to use AIOs, there's plenty of 240mm AIO support. 280mm AIO's are often massive, due to the integrated pumps, and it would just add too much volume.



Thanks for sharing! :D Yes, designing a pump bracket that's as flexible as humanly possible is actually quite challenging, but I think we have something that'll work, and give everyone tons of flexibility. Stay tuned because the update in a few days will probably be an absolute treat for all of you eagerly awaiting the pump mount design ?



2-4 dBa louder, with the exact same fan setup, over the solid side panels. Still very quiet -- the increase in noise will really depend on how loud the fans on your hardware are -- for example, if you have a CPU Cooler with a loud fan, the loudness increase could be even higher. You could fix this by replacing it with fans that are known to be very quiet (ie, Noctua, beQuiet, arctic, etc). Sadly, it's a very hard question to answer, as the answer only makes sense if you use the *same* components to check the delta...



No. The beta units were v10, and it wasn't until the beta, when the 3090 FE dropped, that support for large GPUs was requested. When adding a few mm to accommodate the GPUs, it became possible to add a few mm to accommodate larger radiators, and bump up from slim rads + 25mm fans to "standard" 30mm rads + 25mm fans. This is the last minute volume increase I referred to in the v11 changelog.



I completely understand. Because of some issues we had with v10, it wasn't possible to get into the hands of as many reviewers as I wanted. LTT should be posting their video at some point, so that's coming up. IMO, the Qzrx build was great because it showcased the awesome density of the system, and its beauty, without using hardline tubing (which would look amazing, but IMO, is impractical for most people).

--------------------



I have an environmental engineer friend who's helping me out with that, but basically, we're re-foresting natural land, working with a nonprofit to do so. All carbon projections are based on assuming that all the saplings fail to become trees and die within a year, so if any of them survive, we'll have extra carbon capacity. Overall, going Carbon neutral involved:

1. Reduce emissions as much as possible. So we went with high fractions of recycled aluminum and steel (less energy intensive to melt vs ore, etc. Some ore-aluminum needed to reach purity.
2. Flat pack EVERYTHING, in environmentally responsible foams to reduce carbon emissions from shipping
3. Use land and sea shipping as much as possible (building a small supply chain to do so), since it’s the best / ton emissions.
4. Use responsible chemical processes (type ii anodize, rather than the cheaper but much worse type i)
5. Make sure manufacturers have proper processing and handling of waste
6. Encourage them to use cleaner energy (choose locations with less coal and more renewables)
7. Anything left over, offset in a scalable way. For our current scale planting trees is actually viable.
8. Avoid carbon credits - yes I can just pay to become carbon neutral, but it’s more sustainable and beneficial to do it myself.

From a business standpoint, yes these restrictions limit my options. Does it cost some margin? Sure. But I see it as a strategic advantage - when regulation comes in the future I’ll have long-standing relationships with emissions-friendly factories. Also, avoid the sharp jump in price of carbon credits as big companies who haven’t gone carbon neutral scramble for them reaches fever pitch when regulations threaten to hurt quarterlies. I see Carbon Neutral as a necessary eventuality, and shortsightedness is a massive threat to operations.
I can't wait to see that pump bracket. This case keeps getting better, and it is not even out yet! Also good news on the GPU side, the new AMD cards are actually smaller than the NVIDIAs so that will be perfect for this case.
 
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ellroy80

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Jun 7, 2020
111
119
Quiet is a relative term. Winter One is ridiculously quiet either way, because of how good the cooling is... I think you care enough about performance, you should go for the perforated panels. :)
@WinterCharm, my understanding is that the perforated side panels are simply solid side panels with holes in them. There is no difference in thickness between the two. So why the difference in the supported GPU's? (i.e. 2.5 vs 3 slot). Can a 3 slot GPU not "breathe" with the solid side panel?
 
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DrHudacris

King of Cable Management
Jul 20, 2019
918
1,720
The SPK is going to stretch *beyond* the motherboard and GPU... it will reach into the radiator space (top and bottom) on Winter One.... Monstrous cooling requires surface area. ?

Oh I knew it would be massive and overhang into the top and bottom compartments, but the heatsink would stop short enough to equip fans above and below right? If so, what I'm suggesting is a case that eliminates the top and bottom "fan" spaces. This "mini" variation would support 2 configs: 1) air cooled (air cooled CPU, GPU, and case fans and 2) SPK without fans...so I guess...PK.

I'm just making assumptions here, as I don't have the skill set to run the simulations, but shortening the top and bottom would still maintain the excellent air flow, but provide a smaller overall volume for the specific use cases above.

This is just a potential stretch, stretch future suggestion, for a second variation. A winter two, if you will.
 
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jupiterking

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Oct 23, 2020
90
163
@WinterCharm, my understanding is that the perforated side panels are simply solid side panels with holes in them. There is no difference in thickness between the two. So why the difference in the supported GPU's? (i.e. 2.5 vs 3 slot). Can a 3 slot GPU not "breathe" with the solid side panel?
From my previous conversation with him I believe that is correct, a 3 slot wouldn’t have any (or enough?) space between the case to allow for intake.
 

mxj1

Cable-Tie Ninja
Sep 13, 2020
179
451
As final design tweaks are being made to v11 right now, I'll see what we can do. :) These are mostly minor changes, since the beta was near-final, but QoL improvements like this might be possible...

QoL to fit 316 mm alphacool radiators would be awesome. These are the shortest 280s that have ports on both sides. This is a big deal because it allows us water coolers the ability to make a loop with no reservoir.
 

Post-Newt

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Oct 12, 2020
105
247
QoL to fit 316 mm alphacool radiators would be awesome. These are the shortest 280s that have ports on both sides. This is a big deal because it allows us water coolers the ability to make a loop with no reservoir.
Going dual 280GTS without reservoir. Still deciding between 3-way or QDC as my fill/drain method. It's definitely possible.
 

mxj1

Cable-Tie Ninja
Sep 13, 2020
179
451
Going dual 280GTS without reservoir. Still deciding between 3-way or QDC as my fill/drain method. It's definitely possible.
I agree it's possible, and the gts is a great rad - I've got two gts 360s and a gtx 360 in my O11 xl.


But, aside from the cooling performance and quietness, a big part of my water cooling decisions accounts for aesthetics.

I've already got an sf750 and apogee drive ii seeing on boxes for this build. I'm envisioning nickel plated brass tubes for this build, so is rather not have to deal with qdcs of it's possible.

Puhleaseeee... I just need two more mm on each end! ?
 

DrHudacris

King of Cable Management
Jul 20, 2019
918
1,720
QoL to fit 316 mm alphacool radiators would be awesome. These are the shortest 280s that have ports on both sides. This is a big deal because it allows us water coolers the ability to make a loop with no reservoir.

Ooooh, I see you've not come across this radiator! Hardware labs OEM, like a GTS with 2 fewer water tubes.
 
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