Windows 10 discussion Thread

[iFreilicht]

So, as Windows 10 started rolling out yesterday and I already have it installed, I thought maybe we could talk about it a little bit and I'd answer your questions as well.

First off, the desktop mode is extremely similar to Windows 7, apart from the design. Everything is where it's always been, you've got the power button back in the old position inside the start menu. I see absolutely no reason why you wouldn't upgrade from 7 to 10.
And I see little reason to not upgrade from 8 to 10 as well, but maybe you should wait for a bit, as it is currently not possible to install new apps from the store due to server overloads and you can't seem to keep your apps when upgrading. The missing charms bar has been replaced by the notification center, which has more functionality and can be accessed the same way on touch devices, which was one of my biggest concerns with the Technical Preview.

The only two things I noticed negatively in terms of UI are these two: Firstly, the taskbar isn't hidden in tablet mode anymore. It is now always present and contains the start, back, search and task switch buttons in addition to the clock and a few system notification icons. This might be good, but I was concerned about full-screen video playback when I first saw it. Luckily, apps have the ability to offer a full-screen mode button which works in desktop mode as well, so that was a pleasant surprise.
The second thing is the way brightness settings are now handled. In windows 8, you could start dragging on the brightness icon to open a slider. Now you have a similar setup to windows phone, where you can only click/tap the icon to change the brightness in increments of 25%. But 0% are missing here. So when you don't have a keyboard connected to your convertible, you can't set the brightness to the lowest setting without opening the system settings. I guess that will be fixed later down the line, though.

That's it for my personal impression. If you've got any questions, ask! I'll gladly try to find an answer.

 

[Phuncz]

I'm not running it yet, I'm waiting for it to cool down and have it's teething issues resolved (drivers AND apps) before I plunge. I was also planning to get a spanking new PCIe M.2 SSD to freshly install it unto, but those still have yet to surface on the retail market.

I am "one of those" that choose to skip Windows 8 because I couldn't get used to the double-faced nature of it's interface with classic desktop use on one side and a flashy, resolution agnostic design on the other. I'm happy I can finally do a clean install soon and get a new experience !

 

[iFreilicht]

Drivers don't seem to be an issue when you're working on a laptop or otherwise pre-built system. They did some next-level planning in that regard. I did an "upgrade install" on my laptop where only files in the user folders were kept, and I was greeted with fully installed realtek audio and Intel graphics drivers. Probably the smoothest install of an OS I ever experienced.

I don't know how you can get the free update from win7 when you want to install onto a new drive, not even sure that's possible.

But yeah, they did a much better job with separating the two main UIs while making sure that all apps/programms work in both. It's quite amazing, you can even snap multiple desktop apps next to each other in tablet mode.

 

[confusis]

I'm upgrading now and will be doing a first impressions article to post this weekend I really liked win8 and am looking forward to it. I also run a windows 8.1 phone so looking forward to that upgrade too later this year

 

[iFreilicht]

Yeah it will be interesting to see how close win10 and wp10 will be, especially from an app-development perspective. I'm kind of disappointed about the lack of an "set a parallax scrolling image as the background for your tiles"-option in win10, I was hoping for that to carry over from wp8.1.

 

[EdZ]

My desktop and laptop are both on 8.1. The Laptop will go to 10 as soon as the install option is exposed, the desktop will have to wait until the green-light from Oculus that everything is working OK (may need to wait on Nvidia too there).

 

[craigbru]

I was using the Insider Preview builds for a couple of months without any major issues. I was running 8.1 prior and was having a little random system flakiness that I couldn't seem to track down. Instead of installing 8.1 again, I went ahead with the preview. I was concerned about driver and gaming compatibility, but everything was pretty smooth. I really did try and look for things to pick apart, but I couldn't find much. I loved 7, and willingly moved to 8 when I had a chance. I know the start screen was the target of a lot of hate, but I didn't mind it. 10 combines the best of both worlds for me.

 

[iFreilicht]

My desktop and laptop are both on 8.1. The Laptop will go to 10 as soon as the install option is exposed, the desktop will have to wait until the green-light from Oculus that everything is working OK (may need to wait on Nvidia too there).

So I installed win10 on my main rig today, and the installation of the nVidia drivers was a bit strange. Maybe windows was still doing things in the background to finish the standard driver installation off, but I had to restart several times until the installation finished properly.
Upgrading from the Technical Preview to 10 was a PITA, btw. There was a folder on C: that was used by windows for software distribution or something, and it locked up all installation tries. I couldn't make a re-installation of the preview, I couldn't install win10, nothing worked. Had to actually start windows in console mode and remove that folder from the command line to make it happen, but then the upgrade went butter-smoothly.
After all that fuss, though, nVidia drivers seem to be working fine for me, same performance in gaming, shadowplay works, everything's just fine.

I was using the Insider Preview builds for a couple of months without any major issues. I was running 8.1 prior and was having a little random system flakiness that I couldn't seem to track down. Instead of installing 8.1 again, I went ahead with the preview. I was concerned about driver and gaming compatibility, but everything was pretty smooth. I really did try and look for things to pick apart, but I couldn't find much. I loved 7, and willingly moved to 8 when I had a chance. I know the start screen was the target of a lot of hate, but I didn't mind it. 10 combines the best of both worlds for me.

Yeah that's really what 10 is. A combination of 7 and 8. You get everything you got from both OS' plus a load of additional stuff.

BTW, continuum (automatic switching between the touch- and desktop-UI) works brilliantly! As soon as my laptop disconnects its keyboard, windows switches to the way windows 8 apps worked and does that for every app, even the ones running on the desktop. To make it a really pleasant experience, you have to turn off "Hide program icons from the task-bar in tablet-mode", but then it's a flawless and seamless experience.
And it seems that Tablet-mode can't even be started on PCs with no touchscreens. Makes sense to me. I wonder what would happen if I had a touchscreen connected with a multi-monitor setup.

 

[jØrd]

i'll be upgrading my VM to windows 10 once things have settled down. Will need to find a new solution for NFS though since it got baked out w/ v.10 enterprise :|

 

[iFreilicht]

Um, SMB? I don't know anyone using NFS anyway. Everyone I know uses SMB and Samba, I think because that allowed user authentication way before NFS.

 

[Phuncz]

I'm still curious about Windows 10. It seems they are going to be collecting massive amounts of user data, more so than with older versions. It seems obvious with the push to get as many people as possible on the Windows 10 band-wagon. Since I'm against people being a product and the whole advertisement industry being 30% of our media experience, I'm not so sure yet I'll be upgrading before I find some more information about the subject.

I'm wary of Google's products for the same reasons as I don't like the idea that everything is free but my experience is flooded with ads.

 

[jØrd]

Um, SMB? I don't know anyone using NFS anyway. Everyone I know uses SMB and Samba, I think because that allowed user authentication way before NFS.

thats fine, you dont have to, im yet to decide weather to install and config smb for all of two VM's or to look for new windows tooling, up until win10 it has been moot, nfs for two VM's that see low use was the path of least resistance

 

[EdZ]

I'm still curious about Windows 10. It seems they are going to be collecting massive amounts of user data, more so than with older versions.

It's effectively the same amount of data as collected with past Windows versions, the toggles have now been made more explicit, more granular, and tagged with descriptions.
With the massive number of ways in which information can be gathered about you, both passive and active, your choices are pretty much use Tails (or another disposable semirandomised VM with all connections tunnelled through Tor), or accept that information is going to be gathered on your by multiple parties. e.g. You're clearly browsing SFF Forum. Google Analytics is enabled, so unless you are explicitly blocking it (e.g. through NoScript or similar) your visit to SFF is logged (via IP, session cookie, and browser fingerprint) along with visits to any other sites using Google Analytics (many), and also linked to with any Google services you have logged into (e.g. Gmail, Youtube, etc). Facebook do exactly the same (every Facebook 'like' button is tagged with a little bit of javascript that does the same logging), as do many other companies. If an off-site image is embedded, the image host is getting the referrer (the site you're browsing), you IP, and a browser fingerprint, even without any scripting going on, due to the way the internet and WWW function at a low level! Then there's your ISP possibly using deep packet inspection and injection to replace other's adverts with their own, mobile networks where everything is tunnelled through the blackbox OS living on the SoC within your SIM card (to which the phone's own OS is beholden for many communication encryption features), nation states who can budget to log etc.
The pervasiveness of data gathering, and the broad language of ToS documents (because everything a computer does relies on copying information, and legislation has not kept up with this, requiring either blanket permission to duplicate and transmit your person information or risk a technically valid lawsuit if anyone ever entered personal details into a .txt. file and hit save) it's a very fine line between privacy awareness and paranoia. If you turn off the features you don't like and still don't trust the OS to follow those choices, you have bigger problems than not upgrading to a newer version of Windows.

 

[Phuncz]

I do believe Windows 7 and before were not as information-gathering as Windows 8 or 10.

I do indeed use NoScript, I'm scarsely using Google's services and don't even use Facebook or any other social media. I do know there is no way to be completely untraceable and I don't want to be. But I don't want to make it too easy to completely log my personal, professional and private life. People don't need to know what I searched for 5 minutes ago by seeing an ad on my computer's browser.

Companies shouldn't make us the product by using automation, I don't see it as a sustainable market.

 

[iFreilicht]

I do believe Windows 7 and before were not as information-gathering as Windows 8 or 10.

I do indeed use NoScript, I'm scarsely using Google's services and don't even use Facebook or any other social media. I do know there is no way to be completely untraceable and I don't want to be. But I don't want to make it too easy to completely log my personal, professional and private life. People don't need to know what I searched for 5 minutes ago by seeing an ad on my computer's browser.

Companies shouldn't make us the product by using automation, I don't see it as a sustainable market.

I personally do. A lot of content we can enjoy on the internet only can be enjoyed for free because of ads. And as nothing is for free, you'll have to give something back for the service you're using, and that something is a profile by which you can be advertised to. That way companies know that their ads reach a potential customer, and not someone who wouldn't care about their money at all.
If you don't want that to be the case, you can of course try to evade this profiling to the best of your abilities, but you should be aware that an alternative form of exchange would be required in order to keep everyone happy. With content creators on youtube, you have that option in the form of patreon. With twitch, you have paid subscriptions.

But I do agree that this becomes a problem once it is implemented into Operating Systems. Personally, I don't know what sort of information Windows actually tracks, but I do know that it could potentially track a lot of stuff. From what I know, some of their tracking works hand in hand with the Store infrastructure to make free apps with ads viable. But some stuff is worrying. You have an option to automatically connect to WiFi networks your contacts connect to, for example.
The question is: How bad is something like this? If you want to turn the upload of this sort of data off, you can still use a local account and everything should be as it always was. The only problem is that you can't know for sure.

 

[EdZ]

The "you can't know for sure" applies to 7 and 8/8.1 too. All the same data is still being gathered (Windows has plenty of logging going on all the time), so you still have to trust Microsoft not to be uploading it anywhere.

 

[iFreilicht]

The "you can't know for sure" applies to 7 and 8/8.1 too. All the same data is still being gathered (Windows has plenty of logging going on all the time), so you still have to trust Microsoft not to be uploading it anywhere.

I don't think Windows 7 was allowing you to store settings like VPN connections and WiFi log-in data inside the cloud to be reused when you set up a new device or logged in to one. This started with Windows 8.1, and it's only a small step from there to allow the OS of contacts to access that info as well. But I think it should be possible to control that stuff better, maybe share the data explicitly with contacts or something.
You could maybe even argue that this is a bit safer because nobody except you actually knows that info so they can't tell anyone, but that might be a bit of a stretch.

 

[EdZ]

WiFi Sense (the sharing feature) is off by default, and must be enabled for each Wifi network you want to share the key for (a prompt will appear for new networks, existing networks must be enabled manually).

 

[Phuncz]

I personally do. A lot of content we can enjoy on the internet only can be enjoyed for free because of ads. And as nothing is for free, you'll have to give something back for the service you're using, and that something is a profile by which you can be advertised to. That way companies know that their ads reach a potential customer, and not someone who wouldn't care about their money at all.
If you don't want that to be the case, you can of course try to evade this profiling to the best of your abilities, but you should be aware that an alternative form of exchange would be required in order to keep everyone happy. With content creators on youtube, you have that option in the form of patreon. With twitch, you have paid subscriptions.

I'm no ignorant freeloader, I'd be happy to pay money for access to certain websites. I pay for Netflix which I only watch maybe once or twice month, but I do because I support good innitiatives that help progress. Some sites have begun with subscriptions to disable ads, but for 2 € or $ a month per website is just ridiculous. I'd much rather pay for a subscription that allows "a website directory" to be browsed ad-free and more importantly tracking-free.

With Windows 10, which I was going to need to buy retail anyway with another system in the plans, I would pay for Windows and be profiled and haunted by ads too. That's obscene, I could just as well move my private life into Facebook and live there. I'm postponing buying Windows 10 until the very loose privacy and information policy is adressed or able to be managed. If it won't, I'll be looking at MacOS X or Linux as my main OS with Windows in a VM.

But I do agree that this becomes a problem once it is implemented into Operating Systems. Personally, I don't know what sort of information Windows actually tracks, but I do know that it could potentially track a lot of stuff. From what I know, some of their tracking works hand in hand with the Store infrastructure to make free apps with ads viable. But some stuff is worrying. You have an option to automatically connect to WiFi networks your contacts connect to, for example.
The question is: How bad is something like this? If you want to turn the upload of this sort of data off, you can still use a local account and everything should be as it always was. The only problem is that you can't know for sure.

That's the problem: Windows 10's information and privacy handling seems purposefully vague and general to the point that it seems they can do just about anything.

 

[iFreilicht]

WiFi Sense (the sharing feature) is off by default, and must be enabled for each Wifi network you want to share the key for (a prompt will appear for new networks, existing networks must be enabled manually).

Ah. I personally never got the prompt, even with new networks, maybe because I turned off the option when installing windows.

With Windows 10, which I was going to need to buy retail anyway with another system in the plans, I would pay for Windows and be profiled and haunted by ads too. That's obscene, I could just as well move my private life into Facebook and live there. I'm postponing buying Windows 10 until the very loose privacy and information policy is adressed or able to be managed. If it won't, I'll be looking at MacOS X or Linux as my main OS with Windows in a VM.


That's the problem: Windows 10's information and privacy handling seems purposefully vague and general to the point that it seems they can do just about anything.

Yeah that may be an issue as well: I'm looking at Windows 10 as a free operating system, because I either had a full licence of 8 on my PC or the Technical Preview, which can be upgraded for free as well. You are right in that microsoft should communicate better what's actually happening behind the curtains.