Production VALKPC VF-1

VALKPC

Cable Smoosher
Original poster
Jun 15, 2021
10
12
Hello again, from Singapore. :)

We are a ITX-focused PC case maker and would like to share our design here.

Sorry, not trying to spam but here's an overview video:

We have heard feedback that it's too big for ITX and some says it's too small and cannot fit the big-arse new GPUs. Would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks!
 

VALKPC

Cable Smoosher
Original poster
Jun 15, 2021
10
12
(seems like I can't edit my post)

Did a bit more reading on this forum, seeing some scary comments about 12L being too big. LOL. Before we're roasted, I thought we'll share a bit about the background of the design.

The original concept came many years back when seemingly laser cutters and 3D printers would be abundantly available to everyone. Together with the fact that we're not a rich startup, designed the case to be easily manufacturable. The idea is also extended to the fact that it can easily be modified. All the panels are sheet material (3mm) and replaceable with many options as long as you can cut it.

Being a non-sandwich design, we're not going to beat world-conquering sub-10L cases. But our experience building tiny cases have been more frustrating than enjoyable. So we prefer a bit of breathing space. :)

Thanks for having a look.
 

srekal34

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Oct 1, 2019
132
127
It's an interesting concept but I can't see you competing with the likes of NR200p/TU150. In order to do that, you would have to find yourself a niche - focus on watercooling maybe, make case 30mm taller to fit another rad on bottom + maybe make dedicated mounting for pump+res? something like EK FLT120 on top off PSU. This would appear to wider audience and be something new. Inverted ITX is always nice to see. Having space for 2 radiators would also solve GPU compatibility issue(2 slot, 300mm is not enough for today's standards), but with the focus on watercooling it's not a problem.
With traditional design you wont be able to compete with sandwich, but that's fine.
 
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Valantar

Shrink Ray Wielder
Jan 20, 2018
2,201
2,225
Welcome to the forums!

(FYI, new users can't edit posts until they reach a minimum number AFAIK.)

As for your design, while it's interesting, I think it has some issues that ought to be addressed (in order of severity as I see it):
  • The GPU+radiator mounting setup is sub-optimal for cooling. Having the CPU rad and GPU in line means the only sensible radiator fan orientation is as intake (unless you want the rad to fight the GPU for air, harming the thermals of both), and you're then exhausting the heated air from the CPU directly into the GPU, heating it up. Of course this air won't be that hot unless you're running a 200W+ CPU, but it'll still hurt GPU thermals, and given modern GPU boosting algorithms, bring performance down somewhat. (Also, your renders seem to be showing a bottom-to-top airflow layout, which would result in the GPU and top radiator fighting each other for air. Reversed motherboard mounting and bottom-to-top airflow aren't really a good match.)
  • Those aluminium extrusion beams inside of the case seem to unnecessarily impede compatibility. I assume they are there for structural rigidity (and the middle one perhaps for GPU support?), but I can't quite imagine that this is the best possible solution for this. GPU support could, for example, be handled by an adjustable bar going front-to-back across the case (screwed in from each side, perhaps in a slot rather than single hole to allow for adjusting the position as needed), and structural support could be handled more along the sides of the case. This would allow you to open up the inner volume of the case more and thus allow for fitting more hardware, such as mATX motherboards or ATX PSUs.
  • An extension of the above point, the part of the side support bracket that surrounds the PSU area looks like it would make PSU installation a pain. I hope it can be (safely) removed while installing parts. Also, are those slots in it drive mounts? Fan mounts? Something else? There's a ton of free space next to the PSU after all. Looks like there would be room for 3.5" drives there, though they would be flimsily mounted from just one side.
  • (It looks like there would quite easily be room for a sandwich GPU position next to the motherboard, allowing for both reasonably thick GPUs and much better airflow. With a cutout in the back and an upside-down sandwich GPU (backplate facing the side panel) it would have access to plenty of cool air from the bottom intakes while allowing for bottom-to-top airflow and much thicker top radiators.)
  • SFX-L PSUs look like they would be problematic in terms of motherboard clearance - from the looks of it, the modular cables will be facing the motherboard, meaning they will be coming out exactly where the 24-pin and any I/O is on most motherboards. I see there is a gap, but remember that cables stick out quite a bit. I don't think it would break compatibility, but it would be a mess and likely difficult to build in.
All that being said, it's an interesting design, particularly the aspect of affordable and (relatively) simple production. The combination of laser-cut panels and aluminium extrusion seems smart if adjusted a bit. Still, you're essentially at the same volume as the Cooler Master NR200, have a reasonably similar aesthetic, and it has a much more flexible layout than your design without the conflicting airflow issue. I can't see you beating them on price, which means the potential market for the case would likely be very small.
 

VALKPC

Cable Smoosher
Original poster
Jun 15, 2021
10
12
Thank you both for the insightful reply. To address some general points...

We are not kidding ourselves that we would be THE mainstream case. I mean, everywhere we looked, it's Meshlicious. And honestly, it's a compelling proposition with great flexibility in the layout. Personally I won't buy it because it is a dust magnet and steel cases are out. 🤣

That said, if we only look at how saturated the market is and give up, there won't be any new products.

We are focused on water cooling. If not, there won't be at least 80mm of space above the GPU water block for radiator/fan. Plus we like to not design until the last mm...

It's an interesting concept but I can't see you competing with the likes of NR200p/TU150. In order to do that, you would have to find yourself a niche - focus on watercooling maybe, make case 30mm taller to fit another rad on bottom + maybe make dedicated mounting for pump+res? something like EK FLT120 on top off PSU. This would appear to wider audience and be something new. Inverted ITX is always nice to see. Having space for 2 radiators would also solve GPU compatibility issue(2 slot, 300mm is not enough for today's standards), but with the focus on watercooling it's not a problem.
If we're not using the top space for rad/fan, a 3 slot card like the 3090 FE would actually fit. Practically, I don't imagine anyone would buy the case for air cooling.
With traditional design you wont be able to compete with sandwich, but that's fine.
We're not fans of using risers and given how low cost we want the product to be, it was never an option to begin with.
Welcome to the forums!

(FYI, new users can't edit posts until they reach a minimum number AFAIK.)

As for your design, while it's interesting, I think it has some issues that ought to be addressed (in order of severity as I see it):
  • The GPU+radiator mounting setup is sub-optimal for cooling. Having the CPU rad and GPU in line means the only sensible radiator fan orientation is as intake (unless you want the rad to fight the GPU for air, harming the thermals of both), and you're then exhausting the heated air from the CPU directly into the GPU, heating it up. Of course this air won't be that hot unless you're running a 200W+ CPU, but it'll still hurt GPU thermals, and given modern GPU boosting algorithms, bring performance down somewhat. (Also, your renders seem to be showing a bottom-to-top airflow layout, which would result in the GPU and top radiator fighting each other for air. Reversed motherboard mounting and bottom-to-top airflow aren't really a good match.)
Actually I'm not quite understanding this point, perhaps the overview video is misleading. In a typical full watercooling build, this won't be an issue? Not sure if it helps but here's our recent build.

We kept getting questions on how tight the space is for the rad fan but in actual fact, there is a 30mm gap there and we took the opportunity to ran tubing in the space purely for aesthetics. A monster 280 x 45mm radiator would actually fit comfortably there.

  • Those aluminium extrusion beams inside of the case seem to unnecessarily impede compatibility. I assume they are there for structural rigidity (and the middle one perhaps for GPU support?), but I can't quite imagine that this is the best possible solution for this. GPU support could, for example, be handled by an adjustable bar going front-to-back across the case (screwed in from each side, perhaps in a slot rather than single hole to allow for adjusting the position as needed), and structural support could be handled more along the sides of the case. This would allow you to open up the inner volume of the case more and thus allow for fitting more hardware, such as mATX motherboards or ATX PSUs.
You are right, it was there for rigidity but more importantly to support the GPU. We are changing this to be a cantilever support on the main back frame and also should improve the aesthetics of the front.
  • An extension of the above point, the part of the side support bracket that surrounds the PSU area looks like it would make PSU installation a pain. I hope it can be (safely) removed while installing parts. Also, are those slots in it drive mounts? Fan mounts? Something else? There's a ton of free space next to the PSU after all. Looks like there would be room for 3.5" drives there, though they would be flimsily mounted from just one side.
Actually we have a timelapsed build video:

The PSU is actually very easy to install. When it comes to 3.5" drives... honestly not something we support because having ITX and older larger drives don't make whole lot of sense to us.
  • (It looks like there would quite easily be room for a sandwich GPU position next to the motherboard, allowing for both reasonably thick GPUs and much better airflow. With a cutout in the back and an upside-down sandwich GPU (backplate facing the side panel) it would have access to plenty of cool air from the bottom intakes while allowing for bottom-to-top airflow and much thicker top radiators.)
I can imagine someone wanting to fit a 2nd 280mm rad/fan combo in that space. I don't think it will do much for aesthetics or performance but the space is there.
  • SFX-L PSUs look like they would be problematic in terms of motherboard clearance - from the looks of it, the modular cables will be facing the motherboard, meaning they will be coming out exactly where the 24-pin and any I/O is on most motherboards. I see there is a gap, but remember that cables stick out quite a bit. I don't think it would break compatibility, but it would be a mess and likely difficult to build in.
All that being said, it's an interesting design, particularly the aspect of affordable and (relatively) simple production. The combination of laser-cut panels and aluminium extrusion seems smart if adjusted a bit. Still, you're essentially at the same volume as the Cooler Master NR200, have a reasonably similar aesthetic, and it has a much more flexible layout than your design without the conflicting airflow issue. I can't see you beating them on price, which means the potential market for the case would likely be very small.
Yes the SFX output is very near the ITX board and actually we used a custom 100mm 24pin ATX cable. Out of box cables would likely be too long but actually there is at least a 50mm gap.

We do realise that we are assuming a lot on the user side for making those changes to fit their need. But honestly, that's what we would do for an ITX case of our own. Again, appreciate the feedbacks!
 

Valantar

Shrink Ray Wielder
Jan 20, 2018
2,201
2,225
Ah, so you're focusing on custom water loops? That does make more sense, though nothing in your initial presentation indicated that. The fact that the initial presentation video used a 3080(90?) FE also points towards a more typical/mainstream air cooled GPU + AIO CPU target. But you're of course right that there won't be any conflicting airflow with a custom loop.

This also goes some way to explain why there's the huge open space next to the PSU, for pumps and reservoirs like in your video :) I didn't necessarily think you were supporting 3.5" drives (I completely agree they don't make sense at all), I was just trying to figure out what that space was for. So the slots in the PSU mounting plate (and in the side supports?) are for pump mounts or something similar?

Now that I understand that you're aiming for custom loops I completely agree that the space next to the PSU/motherboard makes a lot of sense for mounting a second radiator (what's the clearance there btw, from the side support to the PSU and motherboard I/O?), though it doesn't look like the current design has any way of supporting this?

It sounds like you're making good changes though, so it'll be interesting to see how this progresses :) I wonder how much of a market there is for a custom loop focused case that isn't also very premium (like, say, the Winter One), given that custom loops are already pretty expensive, but more options are always good, and this does look very friendly to modding and customization!
 
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VALKPC

Cable Smoosher
Original poster
Jun 15, 2021
10
12
Ah, so you're focusing on custom water loops? That does make more sense, though nothing in your initial presentation indicated that. The fact that the initial presentation video used a 3080(90?) FE also points towards a more typical/mainstream air cooled GPU + AIO CPU target. But you're of course right that there won't be any conflicting airflow with a custom loop.

This also goes some way to explain why there's the huge open space next to the PSU, for pumps and reservoirs like in your video :) I didn't necessarily think you were supporting 3.5" drives (I completely agree they don't make sense at all), I was just trying to figure out what that space was for. So the slots in the PSU mounting plate (and in the side supports?) are for pump mounts or something similar?
Yes, we have designed a dedicated pump mount now. It sits on the extrusion cross beam. Practically, it doesn't really need too much securing as the tubing will kinda hold it in place. :)
Now that I understand that you're aiming for custom loops I completely agree that the space next to the PSU/motherboard makes a lot of sense for mounting a second radiator (what's the clearance there btw, from the side support to the PSU and motherboard I/O?), though it doesn't look like the current design has any way of supporting this?
If you have a look at the instruction manual (which we absolutely poured our hearts into :D):

It should be clear how much clearance? Wider than the SFX PSU place.
It sounds like you're making good changes though, so it'll be interesting to see how this progresses :) I wonder how much of a market there is for a custom loop focused case that isn't also very premium (like, say, the Winter One), given that custom loops are already pretty expensive, but more options are always good, and this does look very friendly to modding and customization!
I guess to some, it might be a waste of space. But we really enjoy having space to run custom loops. We do think at some point in the future, an air-cooled variant will make sense but the business have to grow first.

A bit of plug here: If you like what we are doing, please follow us. A little motivation goes a long way for newbies like us. Thanks!
 

VALKPC

Cable Smoosher
Original poster
Jun 15, 2021
10
12
Dear friends,

Can't believe it has been 4 months since we last posted here. In a way, it felt much longer. After all the feedbacks we received, we basically went back to the drawing board. Almost every part has been re-designed and every bit optimised to improve the space usage.

V2 is now 14.1L, a reduction of almost 20%. Please see overview.

More information can also be found here:

We kept the bits that worked, fully filtered intake and made much improvements to compatibility with various radiator/fan setup. Sticking to our principal of it being easy to manufacture, almost all parts are off the shelve or can be 3D printed. Panels remained 3mm sheets which can easily be laser or CNC cut.

Aligning with the above goal, we have made our case open-sourced and happy to announce that we're also OSHWA certified. :)


Please visit our github repo for more info. Thanks for looking!
 
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Valantar

Shrink Ray Wielder
Jan 20, 2018
2,201
2,225
*tumbleweed rolls by* 🤣

Just want to share our latest build video. Thanks for looking!
Looks really nice! I like the covers over the corners, makes for a very different look from most PCs made from flat sheetmetal/acrylic/similar materials. The build looks good too, love the density. Though hard-line tubing is something I will never understand :p
 

Hungrythundr

Caliper Novice
Apr 7, 2021
23
9
It looks pretty cool. I would like to see a bit more protection for it an open air case intended to display components. It you could somehow introduce a piece of acrylic behind the motherboard I think that would be a bit better and adding some mesh behind the psu would be interesting in my opinion.
 

XNine

Cable-Tie Ninja
Jan 11, 2022
180
254
It's an interesting concept but I can't see you competing with the likes of NR200p/TU150. In order to do that, you would have to find yourself a niche - focus on watercooling maybe, make case 30mm taller to fit another rad on bottom + maybe make dedicated mounting for pump+res? something like EK FLT120 on top off PSU. This would appear to wider audience and be something new. Inverted ITX is always nice to see. Having space for 2 radiators would also solve GPU compatibility issue(2 slot, 300mm is not enough for today's standards), but with the focus on watercooling it's not a problem.
With traditional design you wont be able to compete with sandwich, but that's fine.

I think this is all well said.

It's my personal opinion that you need to ignore the SFF gatekeepers. Does it fall below 20 liters? Yes? Then that's all you need. The problem with trying to please everyone means you please no one.

You need to try and target as many people as possible, and trying to cram modern GPUs and CPU coolers into a coke can is going to limit hardware to the point that only 1 or 2 configurations work, make cable management a nightmare and working in the case unreasonably difficult.

Just my opinion, of course, I'm by no means the authority on the subject.