The VR thread!

[EdZ]

I doubt it; looking at my accounts I think I've blown ~£3000 on VR equipment already (some of which like the STEM and Cyberith have yet to arrive, and not counting Rift CV1 or Vive). Not that I ever expected to, and not drinking or smoking pays off eventually!

Much as I'd love to quit my day job to do VR Stuff full-time, I'd only have about a year at best before I ran out of savings to support myself, and realistically that's not long enough to train myself up on Unreal/Unity and release a polished product solo, and nowhere close to enough for hardware prototyping costs (bespoke optics are NOT cheap). I keep handing out the "freelance VR Engineer" cards anyway, just in case.

 

[|||]

If you're in the UK, you probably want to check out Gameface Labs. It's a completely untethered VR unit with only an external battery pack (that you can carry or strap on). With the processor built into the unit, they do not have the latency transmission issues that Oculus, HTC, Sony, and others have. When I met their CEO and tried their hardware out, it was still in early development (looked good, still) and they had yet to add external cameras for better motion detection and other capabilities.

 

[iFreilicht]

The Gameface looks very interesting, and the appeal of a completely untethered VR experience is extremely appealing, but right now it's just an android device, and if you want to connect it to a PC for high graphical fidelity, you've got extraneous processing power on your face that will tire your neck muscles faster.
Additionally, I fear that their goal of putting a processing power equal to two Xbox 360s in there is a bit too ambitious and in the end the headset might be a lot heavier than the current development unit is. Not to talk about the ludicrous price you'll have to pay for it.

 

[|||]

I was rather impressed with their early demo, so I'm going to hold off on any judgement until they get to their launch. It wasn't very heavy, especially with the battery remotely contained.

 

[EdZ]

With the battery already sitting outboard (they missed a trick by not using a LEEP VR-style 'counterpoise'), it would make sense to also move the Tegra core (and it;s heatsink and power delivery components) outboard as well, and keep as much weight as possible off of the face. Though at that point, it'd just be a regular HMD connected to a battery-powered Shield Console.
While the Rift's Constellation tracking system is not immediately suited to a fully self-contained large-volume tracking setup (you'd need a 'tracking server' like in current optical systems - e.g. Vicon - directly connected to the cameras which streams coordinate data to mobile clients) a portable self-powered Tegra (or other GPU-heavy SoC) box would work well for the Vive with a bunch of extra Lighthouse basestations thrown about. Easier than building a genuine battery backtop, far cheaper than a laptop with a 980 MXM module, and more powerful than an Android phone. The main limitation would be content: At the moment you have games targeted at the very low performance of phones, or at beastly desktop rigs, with little in-between. PSVR will be at a lower performance level than a desktop PC, but is still fairly powerful compared to any ARM-based SoC (and a different architecture to boot).

 

[|||]

They use Wearality optics for wide field of view optics. The games will be not only phone games, but also those ported over to the Nvidia Shield.

 

[IntoxicatedPuma]

I'm a little bit worried about VR as a game developer. I spent the last two years talking about how we should anticipate them but nothing ever got done, it was like they felt this was something way off in the future that we can worry about later. Suddenly VR headsets get released to the public and marketing is telling us how we should make our game (which is completely not made for VR) into a VR game. Now they're going to want every single game to be VR no matter if VR actually adds anything to it or not.

 

[Phuncz]

That is indeed not the way to go, first-to-market isn't important when the headsets cost a high-end GPU, but I can see Marketing eating it up like it's 20% guaranteed extra sales.

 

[CC Ricers]

Dev kits for the Oculus have been out for quite some time. I don't know exactly who is pushing to make VR an extra feature for all games but it does sound ridiculous. The kind of game really does depend on whether VR is worth it. It's like trying to add multiplayer to everything. You won't see any benefits of VR playing a 4X game or a indie 2D platformer game.

I'll get either the Oculus or Vive when I am able to afford it, but would also need to upgrade my rig first. I'm not a professional game developer but I do like messing around with 3D programming and hopefully finish one game soon.

But long term use is something I'm wondering about. I don't know how heavy these headsets are. That weight will add a lot of artificial fatigue. The next generation of headsets will probably be lighter but at least the immersion factor is already here.

 

[EdZ]

You won't see any benefits of VR playing a 4X game or a indie 2D platformer game.

There was a 2D platformer demo made oft he DK1, where the level wrapped around you and the goal was to 'climb the tower', but I don;t think it got any further development than a proof-of-concept.
4X and RTS would work well though. Top-down 2D plays out like an interactive live-updating 'map table'. Volumetric 3D can be a Lensman-esque 'tank' that provides increased spatial awareness of how objects are arranged. Or you have Flagship, where you direct the battle from the bridge of a ship, and can see it playing out around you.
Either way, games need to be developed with VR in mind. Trying to make a game that plays well on both flat monitors and Vr is difficult enough, retrofitting VR to an existing game is much worse.

But long term use is something I'm wondering about. I don't know how heavy these headsets are. That weight will add a lot of artificial fatigue. The next generation of headsets will probably be lighter but at least the immersion factor is already here.

The Rift CV1 is 470g without the cable.
The Vive Pre (effective the Vive CV) is 555g without the cable, and without headphones.
The Rift has a thinner integrated cable (custom single plug at HMD end), while the Vive uses three separate cables in a fused 'ribbon' that splits into HDMI, USB and power at either end.

 

[Phuncz]

Do you see games with overhead or birds-eye-perspective cameras make good use of VR ? I would imagine something like DOTA2, League of Legends or Heroes of the Storm have a better competitive edge because of the better perception of scale and possibly greater field-of-view, but the mouse 2D input seems like a obstacle hard to overcome.

 

[K888D]

Gear VR (sort of) Review:

Last week I upgraded my phone contract to a Samsung S7 Edge, there isn't really much else to rival it at the moment (you might start seeing slightly better quality photo snaps on my design threads, the camera is awesome!).

My deal came with a free Gear VR headset, which I wasn't that fussed about as I assumed it would just be a bit of a crappy gimmick. I mean how can be it be any good when we are told by various companies you need a super powered PC and a £600 headset to get a decent experience?

Having never experienced VR before and my expectations set to rock bottom I gave it a go not knowing what to expect. I put the headset on and adjusted the focus, my first thought whilst it was loading was how pixelated your view is, I was surprised by this considering how high the resolution of the S7 phone screen is.

When the loading had finished after a couple of seconds I was transported into some kind of computerised relaxation ZEN type room, my instant feeling was being in that room at which point you forget about the pixelation, it totally took me by surprise how immersive it felt. I've got a 3D TV and when you watch a good 3D film it does feel like it pops out of the screen to give it some extra depth, but the 3D effect of a VR headset combined with peripheral vision and head movement actually feels like your in the virtual room rather than watching a stage show on a TV screen.

A menu pops up in front of you, your first instinct is to try and reach out and touch it, once you've finished laughing at yourself over the fact that your phone has convinced your brain to try and touch an imaginary floating menu, you realise that you have to look at the menu options and manually press a button on the headset to select it, its extremely accurate and responsive.

There is so much content to browse through, most of which you have to pay for, but there is quite a bit of free stuff as well. Its powered by Oculus software and the whole thing feels very intuitive and well thought out. I was expecting the VR software to feel like an awkward toolbar addon to the phone, but it actually feels more like a game console type interface with lots of things to do and explore, its very complete and polished.

The first app I tried was a roller-coaster simulation called Rilix Coaster, its a fully 3D rendered application rather than a VR enabled video. It loads up and your sat in an open top carriage in an underground cave. The first thing you notice is how basic the graphics look compared to a PC game, but you soon forget this from the sense of scale you get inside this massive cave, they have really done a great job at nailing the 3D aspect. I looked down and noticed my virtual arms and legs holding onto the carriage bar, its such a surreal moment as it does feel like its your body but your limbs don't follow your movements! It starts by taking you slowly up the track, there is a real sense of fear as you climb up, the cave feels massive and the ground so far beneath you. As you approach the top and prepare for the first drop you get a genuine sense of height and your stomach drops as you plummet over the edge, I was stood up at this point and nearly fell over forward!

Over the weekend I've had a few family get togethers and I took the Gear VR along with me, there is nothing funnier than watching your Grandma screaming on a virtual roller-coaster! The whole family loved it, everyone was laughing and eager for a second go. Even my 3 year old twins had a go, my son loved it with his head moving around as the roller-coaster twisted around, but my daughter hated it saying she felt like she was going to fall off!

Other stand out experiences included a Jurassic Park Dinosaur thing where your in a photo real Forrest and a giant dinosaur walks up to you and starts sniffing you, there is an Avengers app where you are in the Iron Man Suit being attacked by Ultron's drones, the suits holographic HUD is so cool, I can't explain how good it feels, I can imagine this kind of HUD working great in an FPS game. I also watched a short VR movie called SONAR about a submarine investigating an incident deep under the ocean floor, its very creepy and immersive, more of this please!

To sum it up - I was blown away by how good this experience was, especially considering the Gear VR is only powered by a smartphone, yes the graphics of 3D apps are limited by the phones capabilities and the resolution isn't great, but if basic graphics can deliver this level of immersion already, then it can only get better and even more immersive as technology progresses.

The whole thing has got me really excited for the possibilities of a full blown VR kit such as the Vive or Oculus coupled with a high end PC, I can't wait to try one out, and perhaps once the prices have settled down I will buy one for myself. In the meantime I'm looking forward to enjoying more experiences on the Gear VR. Not bad for a free phone accessory!

 

[IntoxicatedPuma]

I have been trying to get others to try out the Gear VR. I think phone VR is the real future of VR. Many see it as a gimmic or only for games, but after trying I think they can quickly realize its more than games. I asked my sister to get one andsoon I will buy a LG 360 camera. I want to show my mom what china is like but simple pictures and even video isnt always enough. Seeing a video where you can look in any direction and trick your mind into thinking you are somewhere else is amazing.

 

[K888D]

Many see it as a gimmic or only for games, but after trying I think they can quickly realize its more than games.

The Gear VR isn't perfect, but it's certainly more than a gimick!

I want to show my mom what china is like but simple pictures and even video isnt always enough. Seeing a video where you can look in any direction and trick your mind into thinking you are somewhere else is amazing.

Have you tried the Google Street View app in VR? Its very strange to be 'virtually' outside your own house!

 

[IntoxicatedPuma]

Havent tried but Google is banned in China so I wouldnt be able to see the streets here anyways

 

[Soul_Est]

I read this article that could help with ground up VR application development. It would cut down on the hardware requirements significantly. http://www.tomshardware.com/news/vr-tessellation-vertex-displacement-cardboard,31844.html The original talk is here:

 

[IntoxicatedPuma]

I read this article that could help with ground up VR application development. It would cut down on the hardware requirements significantly. http://www.tomshardware.com/news/vr-tessellation-vertex-displacement-cardboard,31844.html The original talk is here:

Nvidia Pascals cards do this I think. It was part of where nvidia was getting its "2x GTX980" number from.

 

[Phuncz]

This seems weird but if it works, it would help VR progress further.

 

[K888D]

Have any of you seen this new VR device called "NOLO VR" that was shown at CES?

It basically turns your existing Smartphone+VR Headset (e.g Samsung S7 + GearVR) into a fully fledged room-scale PC powered VR System similar to the Vive, but at a much lower price of around $100 - $150, its compatible with SteamVR and includes some motion controllers.

It's about to launch on Kickstarter for $100 and should be shipping around May:

http://www.nolovr.com/

What do you think? I'm unsure whether to go for it, I want to experience PC powered VR, but I can't justify the price tag of a Rift or Vive!

I had a play around with 'Trinus VR' last night on my Samsung S7 and Gear VR which streams VR to your phone from your PC.

The results were a bit hit and miss as I think my PC was struggling (i3-3240), but I only messed around for an hour or so with plenty more setting to try out.

 

[EdZ]

What do you think?

Like every other system that streams imagery from a host PC to a smartphone for VR (e.g. TriniusVR), it's going to be a pretty abysmal experience for one reason above all others: latency.

What could be considered a 'critical number' for VR is a "20ms motion-photons latency", or that the time between your head moving, and the image on the screen being updated to have the correct view for that new position is 20ms.
Within that 20ms, you must sample your tracking system, perform all game engine computations (e.g. loading and playing back audio, character animations, physics, netcode, etc), then render the image, then warp the image, then scanout that image to the display, then have the display readout that to the pixels, and finally those pixels start emitting photons and you stop the clock. Another way to think of it is you have a 20ms 'budget' available. You can spend this budget on rendering, or on moving the rendered image around.

The problem comes in that WiFi has both an extremely unreliable link latency, and the minimum latency is pretty huge. In many cases the link latency will be above 20ms and the system is totally nonviable from the start. But even if the latency is within 20ms, every ms you waste on link latency is a ms you lose for actual useful rendering tasks. For example, if you have an WiFi network in a Faraday cage (no external interference) with no clients other than the smartphone and PC (no network conflicts), you might be able to get under 20ms reliable. But even if you could hit 15ms, that means you have spent 15ms of your 20ms budget on transmission latency, and have left a mere 5ms for the host PC to complete all rendering tasks. Or to put it another way: to get the same level of functional performance, you need a PC 4 times as powerful. Even an extremely good 10ms transmission time would still need a PC to double in performance to deliver the same image.

But that's not even the whole story. No WiFi link has sufficient bandwidth to carry uncompressed video for VR (even if your smartphone only handles 1920x1080x60FPS that's 3 gigabit/s for uncompressed 8bpp video). So you need to slap two extra stages on the end of the rendering pipeline: video compression on the Pc end, and video decompression on the smartphone end. Neither are really optimised for latency, so you have two extra chunks of wasted time taken out of your 20ms budget, on top of the transmission latency itself. As well as a loss in quality, with VR already starving for every pixel you can get.
This is also a problem with any RF video transmission protocol available for consumers, which is why I'm extremely sceptical of the current crop of 'wireless VR' devices (e.g. the TPCast) that repackage the old SiBeam WirelessHD modules that were designed for remote AV receivers.


tl;dr: I wouldn't touch it, let alone spend money on it. You're fundamentally limited to it being a bad VR experience, and bad VR just isn't worth trying.