CPU The CPU topic

[Phuncz]

Every board should have these general topics ! It's like bread. Who doesn't like bread ? I like bread.

Discussion ideas:

• Intel or AMD
• max TDP vs realistic usage
• OC'ing and/or quiet builds
• wait for the next gen or go with current gen
• etc etc.

3, 2, 1, GO !

 

[Phuncz]

So, first off: most people tend to revolve around the i5-4670K or i5-4690K and i7-4770K or i7-4790K, even without overclocking. Like me.
Why ? Various reasons I guess, the main ones being we like to keep the OC'ing door open and because they have the highest clocks.

Now, Intel is making it much more difficult (with our current limited info) with the Core i5-5675C and i7-5775C Broadwell chips launching mid-June, along with the Intel Intel Core i5-6600K and Core i7-6700K Skylake chips launching (probably) in August, albeit on the new Intel 100-series chipset and new socket.

What does seem to be interesting is that the Broadwell seems to overclock nicely on air. And it will probably be the last update for the Socket 1150 platform.

So we have the new Core i-5xxx series which might be able to offer the highest performance on Socket 1150 platforms, while Skylake will include DDR4 and the latest chipset, although it has to be a proven it's a step-up from the current high-end i7.

I will probably be getting an i7-5775C because my socket 1150 Maximus VII Impact already has the max M.2 spec possible and I already have 16GB of memory which holds me over for a while. It also has plenty of USB 3.0 ports, so I really don't see the point for me to go for the Core i-6xxx series.

"But why Phuncz, why even bother at all to upgrade from the i5-4670K you have ?" Well, because I still have some plans for that CPU with another mITX board and two GPU's Otherwise I would not have changed it.

 

[jeshikat]

Hopefully this doesn't devolve into name calling like every AMD vs Intel thread on every other forum

I'm excited for Skylake for the extra PCIe 3.0 lanes off the CPU. Supposed to be 20, so 16 for GPUs and 4 leftover for a PCIe based SSD, whether M.2 or addin card. I wonder when we'll finally see 6-cores on the mainstream socket, maybe Cannonlake?

 

[Phuncz]

That's indeed the main reason to go with Skylake: the extra PCIe 3.0 lanes. But that's mainly useful for mATX to keep SLI working with a PCIe 3.0 x4 SSD (either M.2 or PCIe x4 card), for mITX it doesn't really matter in reality. But ofcourse this is good news for Nova, as the minimum costs for hardware will go down if X99 is not needed for Nvidia GPU's and a PCIe SSD.

I am curious what this means for the X99 platform this summer. I'm not expecting a new chipset, but I think we may expect new CPU's.

Personally I have no issue with people going Intel or AMD, as long as they aren't blind to reality and don't have emotions factored into the decision-making. For SFF high-end gaming it seems Intel is the prefered choice, altough AMD has a very nice low and mid-range solution with their APU's. I am curious at their 2016 lineup but that's too far away.

 

[jeshikat]

I am curious what this means for the X99 platform this summer. I'm not expecting a new chipset, but I think we may expect new CPU's.

Broadwell-E looks like Q1 2016: http://www.legitreviews.com/intel-l...adwell-skylake-broadwell-release-dates_162722

Probably will be just a slight clock speed bump, Skylake-E is probably going to be mid 2017.

 

[PlayfulPhoenix]

That's indeed the main reason to go with Skylake: the extra PCIe 3.0 lanes. But that's mainly useful for mATX to keep SLI working with a PCIe 3.0 x4 SSD (either M.2 or PCIe x4 card), for mITX it doesn't really matter in reality.

Multiple M.2 slots, maybe? Only possible thing I could think of. Maybe some other on-board PCI hardware, like wireless...

Personally I have no issue with people going Intel or AMD, as long as they aren't blind to reality and don't have emotions factored into the decision-making. For SFF high-end gaming it seems Intel is the prefered choice, altough AMD has a very nice low and mid-range solution with their APU's. I am curious at their 2016 lineup but that's too far away.

I've happily used both in the past. Present day I would agree with your analysis - AMD performs well at budget prices, and there are certain specific workloads that their midrange CPU's perform admirably at. But for SFF and the high-end, it's pretty much always Intel, either for power or performance purposes.

I hope that changes, though - AMD's Bulldozer and subsequent revisions to the architecture have positively maimed the performance of their FX chips, and Intel has demonstrated in the past that it needs a competitor to suppress pricing.

 

[Phuncz]

Yeah, the lack of competition in high-end is something we have felt for years. Intel's lackluster improvements seem to be mainly about keeping margins high through various binning stages. We would all benefit from an competent high-end AMD lineup and maybe even a third competitor but I don't think we'd see that last one happen.

 

[Phuncz]

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/core-i7-5775c-priced-at-479-99.html

OMFG, $480 for the in-between i7 ! I'll go look for something else for my Socket 1150 I guess.

 

[jeshikat]

That's insanity, you're almost to a 5930K at that price!

Actually, you could get a 5820K and 2x4GB of DDR4 2400 for less than that. Crazy.

 

[Phuncz]

I guess that's the price you pay for Intel's "APU", since it will undoubtibly be marketed with the much-improved iGPU.

 

[PlayfulPhoenix]

...which almost nobody who buys it will care about, since at that point you're with people that will spend plenty on good discrete options.

Ah well It's perhaps wise to wait until reviewers get to play with it, though. Even marginally better OC performance (although not expected) could help with the value proposition considerably.

 

[Phuncz]

I find it especially frustrating that it is more beneficial and cheaper to have upgraded my motherboard from an ASRock Z87E-ITX to an Asus Maximus VII Impact for the improved sound solution and M.2 socket than it seems to be to upgrade from the i5-4670K to an i7-5775C or i7-4790K. Now I know why Intel wanted to stop selling desktop CPU's for a socket a few years ago, they were already contemplating their lack of improvements would make people realise that upgrading a CPU is wasted these days.

If I had known then, when Haswell launched, that the best they could do in two years was rip me off for 5% more performance, I would have gone with the i7-4770K instead, which still costs the same as it did back then.

 

[PlayfulPhoenix]

The performance scaling for stock clocks just isn't there anymore - not only is it getting harder to attain, but Intel is investing all of the improvements in lower TDP and improved graphics. But they do it because they can get away with it... so, you know, what is one to do, other than just sit on their hands and wait?

 

[Phuncz]

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/flagship-intel-skylake-s-core-i7-6700k-cpu-benchmarked.html

If this is correct, Skylake is another small bump in performance. So if you're on socket 1150 it probably isn't worth the price for a new board and CPU.

 

[Vittra]

Skylake itself isn't anything special, but the update to the chipset (/southbridge) is significant.
8x PCI-E 2.0 lanes being replaced by 20x PCI-E 3.0? Fantastic for M.2 / SFF 8639 storage possibilities. No mucking about with PLX chips. The CPU will remain at 16x lanes. It really depends on each individuals situation and whether their Skylake build is going to carry forward for a few years or not. Cannonlake is more appealing to be due to die shrink + native USB 3.1 (supposedly), along with hopefully some refinement to how they will tackle NVMe on motherboards at that point.

 

[Vittra]

Broadwell:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9320/intel-broadwell-review-i7-5775c-i5-5765c

 

[jeshikat]

6 months ago they would have been somewhat interesting options but this close to Skylake I don't know what's the point.

CPU performance isn't that much better Haswell, and they're more expensive than the Haswell equivalent. I suppose if for whatever reason you absolutely cannot have dedicated graphics it's a good choice but that seems very niche.

 

[Vittra]

With used Z97 boards getting pretty cheap and DDR3 prices on the fall, it can be a very cheap upgrade for some people, especially once Skylake launches.

Other than that, yeah, it performs admirably as an all in one chip, good for the Lone Industries L1 (which I still have) and the like.

EDIT - Apparently further drivers and BIOS optimizations may be coming out next week for Broadwell. Will be interesting to see how that changes things, if at all.

 

[Phuncz]

I'm glad the price isn't too far off the Haswell equivalents, the power consumption also seems very low for its power and the amazing iGPU performance is nice.
But when you have a dedicated GPU, it's less interesting. Maybe DX12 can offer us more performance with the extra iGPU ?

Conclusion: I was wrong to make an early assumption on a leaked price. This is one might become interesting if the iGPU is useful for something.

 

[Vittra]

DX12 is what I am thinking about, but realistically we are a long ways from that type of usage scenario, if it even happens.