Log Streacom DA2 - trying something different with air cooling

[Mr Whippy]

I've not really seen many DA2 builds using the glass panels, performance panels and fans blowing bottom to top in this case, so I'm going to have a go and see where I end up.

I've already hit the "breaking the acrylic panel" issue just testing how hard they are to remove ahead of upgrading to the performance panels. There is obvious a knack to it but I think it's a bit of a poor solution.


However my first proper snag is one that I've not seen documented so I thought I'd post up here for the benefit of others.

Corsair SF750 being attached to the Streacom PSU support plate, the power button shroud is touching creased edge of back plate (marked in red)
This means the PSU back plate is offset by about 1mm from SFX spec.

Spin the back-plate around (how I'd have it in my final build), and the cable tie prong part also touches the button surround (marked in red)
This is also offseting the back-plate and screw holes by about 1mm.

This means none of the holes align.
So I decided to file away the low part to just get the PSU fitted for testing. To remove the material on the area under the cable tie lug to get it fitted the right way would take a pillar drill or similar to just take away the part needed.

Now I try align the back plate. Success on the power switch.
But uh oh. None of the holes still line up. SFX requires two at one end, and the centre one at the opposite end.

I line up the Streacom DA2 back plate against the ATX > SFX adaptor plate from Corsair at one end. All lines up. Great, all to spec.

But the other end. Hmmm.

A quick measurement across the Streacom DA2 PSU back plate. This should be 113mm. It's actually 114mm (214mm - 100mm).

So right now it looks like the SF450, SF600 and SF750 won't fit the Streacom DA2 PSU back-plate properly because of the U section pushing into the space required at one side, and the U section running into the vertical cable tie support at the other side.

Even if you do adjust the back plate to give clearance, then the PSU back-plate still won't fit correctly because the SFX 113mm spec isn't adhered to, and is actually 114mm.


The end result is that you fit the PSU rotated to clear the power button, which also nicely aligns two of the holes.

However in my view this is completely unacceptable. I can accept that the SF series PSU have a unique power button position, but for Streacom to run outside the SFX spec for the spacing means you can't support the PSU straight or with 3 screws if you make suitable adjustments to the PSU back plate so it fits.

Quite frankly the 'Streacom' precision and high build quality image has totally gone for me now.

This is a bodge at the first step. This should be perfect.

Do I have a bad PSU back plate here? I'm sure I'd read someone else hadn't managed to get more than two screws in.


Anyhoo, using the brass risers I've now got plenty of room for a fan at the top once I get the performance panels. Once the mobo is in and I can get a feel for things, I think there will be room for two 12x25 up here, mounted as far to the side from the motherboard as possible.

Next job, fit the Strix B550-i, 3950x, noctua u9s, 64gb Corsair ram, 2tb mp600 ssd, my GTX1070 strix oc, and then get win10 on there and make sure everything is working as it should.

Then performance panels, glass panels, and two nfa12x25 on the bottom (if they'll fit in place of my Strix fans) running off the Strix fan headers... and hopefully two nfa12x25 at the top... then a few hours setting it all up in Speedfan or Argus Monitor so that in essence, the GPU and CPU suck in what they need, the top fans blow out just enough to keep a positive pressure position.

And a 3D printed duct from the back-panel intake onto the u9s fan haha, that seems critical in this case.

 

[August]

Nice work with those standoffs! I'm always happy to see folx playing with the rails like this. I arrived at a similar solution to try and make room for a radiator up top, and this fella just threw the entire bracket out the window and side-mounted the PSU in order to fit fans up top.

The DA2 has definitely been dogged by some initial impressions of poor airflow, but I'd argue that it just isn't quite as plug-and-play as people expect. A bit of tinkering goes a long way!

Keep us posted. ✌

 

[Mr Whippy]

They're pretty interesting.

I'd have mounted my PSU a little like the 2nd build, so flatter towards the front, but wanted the PSU exhaust to point up. To mount it that way requires two of the short rails at the top closer than 120mm together, which then blocks space for a fan.


I downloaded the Streacom 3D model for this case, along with roughing out the PSU (just 2d textured box, so I didn't spot the issue I noted above haha), the C14S (not right for this case in my view) my GPU with fans removed and so on.
I've tried quite a lot of variations to figure out something that might work. It's all still based on 3D modelling and printing a duct for the U9S CPU cooler though.


Ambient air right onto the GPU and CPU, then get rid of the hot air asap.
Also it has to look good with the glass panels, so that removes water radiator and C14S type solutions right away.



On this PSU mount plate error.

I just measured the Streacom DA2 3D model that you can download, and even they have it at 13.7mm, not the 13mm that the SFX spec appears to be (as is the Corsair PSU and it's back-plate which I have to assume are correct)

What the heck Streacom?

 

[tinyitx]

On this PSU mount plate error.

I just measured the Streacom DA2 3D model that you can download, and even they have it at 13.7mm, not the 13mm that the SFX spec appears to be (as is the Corsair PSU and it's back-plate which I have to assume are correct)

What the heck Streacom?

Ah, Streacom has this wrong in their database!
No wonder why I (and some others as well) had a lot of trouble (the bench frame hitting the Corsair SF600's power switch button housing) in aligning the PSU screw holes of my BC1 Mini.

 

[evadne]

With SF600 specifically you could remove/replace the four M3 screws from the PSU, and mount it vertically using 2 vertical brackets, at the risk of voiding your warranty. This might give you some more room.

 

[Mr Whippy]

With SF600 specifically you could remove/replace the four M3 screws from the PSU, and mount it vertically using 2 vertical brackets, at the risk of voiding your warranty. This might give you some more room.

Yes if you didn't use the Corsair screws, you could use risers to get the brackets above the PSU switch etc, and then use the vertical (or horizontal) brackets to place the PSU where you want.

However it's easier to just email Streacom and ask for an SFX compliant bracket for your SFX PSU complaint case haha. Lets see what they say.

If they're willing to machine a bracket with the holes a bit closer, and trim out the bits for the SF Corsair PSU clearance while they're there, I'd be happy.

 

[Mr Whippy]

Ouch.

Performance panels from Streacom (with VAT and postage), £44.42
Glass panels from Quiet PC (with VAT and postage), £47.26

Total cost of case so far:

£200 + £44 + £47 = £291

And that doesn't include fans yet.

Foolishly I trusted my interpretation of the English in their email which suggested the postage was included in the quote for the panels, but seemingly not. That was £15. Had I known I'd have bought the glass panels from them too, perhaps it'd have been cheaper.


So far I've been let down on:

PSU tray
Unavailability of performance panels from a UK reseller to keep postage costs down


I went into this build with my eyes wide open, but Streacom are failing on the premium experience... the only premium experience so far has been cost. Lets hope they redeem themselves.

 

[Mr Whippy]

Streacom support are looking into the dimension issue on the PSU back plate.

On the Corsair SF PSU compatibility issue, they provide washers in the case packages which they suggest can be used to space the PSU away from the PSU back plate sufficiently to clear the PSU power button surround.
However this advice sheet isn't in the case package/manual, I'm not sure where you're meant to find this unless you ask... so it's not an obvious thing to do.
It does look like the provided Corsair screws have enough length to be spaced with washers and still fully engage with the threaded part of the PSU.

However while the overall dimensions of the PSU back plate are incorrect it still doesn't help you fit the PSU properly.





I managed to throw everything in and get Win10 on there for testing.

Glass panels arriving tomorrow.
Performance panels late in the week.
Once the perf panels go in I can see where the holes sit and determine what fans I'll fit. I have a feeling that the Noctua 12x15 are going to be the sensible choice at the top, and then a pair of A12x25 on the GPU and running on the GPU and also running at a moderately high base speed to get some cross-flow through the case.


On the Noctua U9S with PBO off and XMP profile on with my ram (1800/3600), and everything as standard/automatic as I can figure out, it's running near expected values.
Cinebench score is 508/8936

It looks like it throttles after 5-10 mins and cycles up/down around 3.9/3.8Ghz on all cores, bouncing between 75-80degC, dropping from about 240w package power to 220w. On single cores it's hopping around 4.4-4.5Ghz across a few cores most of the time, but max readouts get up near 4.7Ghz and 1.45v ish range.

It's obviously quite noisy with the 92mm fan at full tilt with no case sides.

Feeling the heatsink and heatpipe tops, it's pretty cool. The exhaust is warm. The PSU back is hot. The CPU back plate is very hot.

I certainly think that even with no sides on the case, it's suffering from stagnant air. It'll be better with the glass sides on and fans top and bottom running a constant flow of air in the bottom and out the top. The smooth glass sides should hopefully aid in the chimney effect.

I plan to feed the CPU with air from the back vent area... either a 2nd 92mm Noctua fan, or a duct. I think I'll be getting some kind of temp probe to measure the air temp at the CPU cooler intake so I can determine the efficacy of a fan there, or a duct.


The SF750 cables are pretty nice, but cripes they're long for most needs. I think I'll be getting some custom cables made up specifically for the runs needed.


I'll post more pics once the new parts arrive and I start swizzling things around.

 

[Mr Whippy]

Well I got some more bits.

I managed to get hold of a vertical GPU kit and latest USB cable to fit the fast 3.2 port on my mobo.

A nice feature of the new USB cable is it's just one slightly thicker wire rather than two, so nice and clean in the case.

I won't use the vertical GPU kit unless I run a water system later. Ultimately I don't want to nerf my CPU and have a noisy machine if the air cooling doesn't work out... but at the same time, I don't want to run side rads because I think the DA2 is a bit ugly with the standard side panels.
However one seeming downside of the VGPU kit is the need to use a horizontal bar across the bottom of the case to support the GPU, which basically blocks the bottom of the case for a 280mm rad and fans with a custom loop. I assume you could 'do something' to support the GPU, maybe something off the back of a radiator... but not something I wanted to get into now, especially because I don't think I can find a decent water block for my 1070 Strix OC.

I managed to get a pair of NF14x25 chromax to sit under this GPU which I've seen done, so I started to strip off the shroud and fans.

But all these bits (marked in green) really make sliding the card in over the fans a real nightmare. After a bunch of test fittings of the GPU my NF14x25 fans got a bit scratched up... and at one point I didn't think I'd get the card out!

Trimming these notches (marked in green) down.

Still scrubbing when test fitting, so taking them right back to flat, filing these off upside down was hard work but kept the dust out of the graphics card.

Old USB 3.0 header cable unwilling to come off, which took the plug surround off the mobo!

Easy to remove like this, with it's tiny little catches visible. Definitely a good idea to file these little claws down before fitting your USB3.0 cable as you'll never get it off once it's on with them present.
Thankfully the new USB cable just pops on and off like you'd want. Also half as much cable to manage too which is nice.

All in and ready for testing, fans blowing in at the bottom past the GPU and then the CPU fan on 'suck' to pull the hot air to the back of the case where it can rise away.
I tried the fan both ways, and a totally open top to the case, and once the glass sides were on it just got hot. CPU up at 80degC and just not good.

More bits. Fans for the top of the case and a way to mount the CPU cooler in an up/down orientation.

Shell off the case, now I can get at everything much better, but it's still a faff!

The NF14x25 now on suck duty under the GPU. I'd seen the recent Optimum Tech video showing suck worked ok over a GPU, and I thought it better to run air top to bottom to direct air down onto the mobo. Also now these are on suck and mounted at the bottom, there is no real need for the filter or filter panel, so that gets you a few more mm of clearance.
Also I thought it better to keep the case orientated this way because the internals look better, rather than spinning the whole setup and having the NF-12x15 visible at the bottom of the case which look less interesting than the GPU/NF14 combo.

I worried initially about clearance issues with the fans seemingly catching when doing a manual spin. But basically because the performance panels are flexible the panels were pushing up into the GPU when I sat the case down. With the perf panels 'free' from load then the fans clear the GPU ok.

Test fitting the top fans and deciding where I want them to go. Also orientating the PSU to take the air from one of the fans, and then drop it out the PSU side vents.
The problem with top fans blowing down into the case is that the only way to mount the PSU hanging from the top of the case is to have the vent facing upwards, and I think that might just get a bit nasty with regards flow and efficiency when the PSU fan kicks in.
I doubt the fan would *need* to kick in due to the case fan blowing down... but I have no idea on the PSU fan operation specifics. I think it just runs on load, not on temperature. I've not seen it kick in yet so it might not be an issue.
But in any case, mounting the PSU on the side seems a better approach, though you do have to use the side bars which are a touch less visually pleasing.
I had tried to 'hang' the PSU on very long risers (25mm stacked 7 deep) up-side down but I wasn't sure that was a good idea without triangulation etc to make it rigid.

Fitting the Noctua adaptor to spin things around. At this point I've had the cooler on and off about 5 times, trying variations since the original build, checking the paste spread pattern (using NTH2), etc... but after removing the cooler support bars the back-plate fell off... what a faff getting that back on at the same time as the spacers and the new support bars!!!
Thankfully the DA2 gives you full access all round.
Also note all the fan headers full up now (B550-i Asus Strix), using the AIO header for the bottom fans/NF14x25 pair, and the case fan header for the NF12x15 pair.

It's alive!
I quite like these fan mounts. They're annoying because they're a bit flappy, and an expensive optional extra, but they're tons easier to fit and remove, and they also allow you to slide fans around a bit. Also quite handily there is a nice channel around the edges at both the top and bottom for cable management.
My 8 core CPU power cable runs right up and out of sight across the back of the case to the PSU.
Note the eraser supporting the case bottom so the fans don't rub into the GPU... this is the downside of the flexible mounting panels and the close tolerances.

I'd been reading about PBO being maybe 'bad' and initially had it turned off until I got my system set up, but I turned it on and it really settled the CPU temps/fluctuations down.
Also I installed the latest bios for the mobo which seemed to improve things further. I still need to try under-volt the CPU a little but only once I get everything else sorted.
Note the GPU is under-volted. It's an older GPU (1070 strix oc), but it's fast enough for everything I want to do right now and has full compatibility with some older GPU renderers I use.
This is just a really quick test for temps and fan speeds and noise. Don't take this as a definitive result.

These pictures make it look like it was an easy time, but I've wanted to throw the computer out of the window numerous times haha.

It's a real faff to work in a small case, and a real faff to have to do so many custom approaches to so many elements.

Also despite the DA2 having amazing flexibility, there are some limitations. Ie:
The horizontal supports intrude into the space between the performance panels and the case interior space, so you get about 10mm of clearance for fans. You can't use these horizontal supports unless they're between where you want fans. That means fans are limited in location. The fans are also limited in location because of the holes in the performance panels. That can mean that you can't actually locate a 15mm thick fan at the top of the case where you want it. In this case it could only go in one spot at the front of the case due to mounting the PSU at the top. Among other reasons this meant moving the PSU to being mounted at the side.

The vertical supports have narrow gaps for normal screws, and wide gaps for fan screws. Streacom provide washers for the wide gap parts, but only 8 washers. Normally that would be plenty, however because I wanted to space my PSU back into the case (for ventilation) the risers were sliding into the wider gaps in the vertical bars. That means you need to use washers at both sides of the bar and use all the washers up.

You could use the holes at the ends of the vertical bars, but they have like sticky out bits where the motherboard risers would usually go. Because of that the standard screws don't go through far enough to bite into enough of the riser to feel secure. These holes are meant for a riser only, not a screw to bite into something at the other side. So you can't use the riser points at the far ends of the vertical bars, so my PSU couldn't get as high up as I'd have liked.

I also fitted the PSU fan facing towards the front of the case. The opposite side of the PSU to the fan (that gets hot) is cooled nicely by the air in the centre of the case. If you look closely you'll note that the vertical bar locations are really close to the removal notch for the bars, so you can't have bars there basically... so I ended up with the PSU a bit further forward in the case than I'd have liked... I couldn't move the PSU further away from the front of the case beyond the removal notch because then the PSU mount was fouling the GPU back-plate.

So yes the DA2 has a great deal of flexibility, but then suddenly it feels like you're restricted to quite narrow ranges of options once you start working in it.
I think a lot could be done to improve the DA2 if they worked around these weaknesses which I'm sure other people bump into when they go off-piste a bit.


I'd run some rudimentary CFD and it seems that the PSU will be happy this way around, and *if* the fan kicks in then it can draw plenty of air, however it did seem as if there might be some re-ingestion where it sucks air back around. I might run some small panels that sit between the risers just to block the flow from the PSU exhaust going back around to the fan.


Using this CFD approach it also seemed that air flow over the chipset and VRMs was really good, seemingly some of the highest velocity airflow in the case over the VRM heatsink area, rear mobo air flow was decent enough too.

Also the PSU location means a narrow area between the GPU back-plate and PSU, and with the NF14x25 end being exposed at this end of the case a really good high velocity airflow runs down that end of the case.


I'll try post some completed photos with cleaned (fingerprints!) glass sides on and also more results from benchmarking.




So far I'm happy with the noise vs temps balance.

My biggest downside is the NF12x15 are a bit of an unpleasant noise vs the 90mm and 140mm fans... I think I might run the fan above the CPU on an LNA and on the same feed as the CPU so it's tied to the CPU demand *and* crucially runs at a different rpm to the other NF12x15... I think a big part of the unpleasant tone is that they're interfering with each other's noise due to running almost the same rpm and coming into and out of some kind of sync in a cyclic noticeable fashion.


I ran all fans at 100% as a test under full benchmark loads (Heaven and Cinebench) and saw 70-75degC @ 3.85ghz all core, and 57degC on the GPU.


Finding a sweet spot for cooling and temps seems to just be a case of dropping them down and finding a nice balance. Noise balance seems quite important too. Having all three fan sizes at equal perceptible levels seems more pleasing than not. Ie, I had the 90mm fan at an un-audible level at one point, but bringing the rpm up and noise up actually added to the niceness of the sound from the other fans.

So a better 'sound' that didn't sound louder, and better cooling.






Overall impressions. The DA2 can be air cooled pretty nicely. But it's not cheap and it's not easy. I'd prefer a decent 120mm CPU cooler (like the new Noctua but it's 13mm too tall), or a Cryorig Quad Lumi/Ultra with the NF12x25 fitted... but Noctua seem to have made their 120mm cooler taller than Cryorig did, and Cryorig don't seem to be selling coolers at the moment haha.

Still to do:

PSU cables that aren't stupidly long (sans CPU power which is perfect)
Black fixings where I can.
Figure out how to make the Asus GPU and Mobo turn on their LEDs.
Cable manage the wires that run to the front of the case.
Figure out why the LED on my power button is intermittently working (it'd be great it if was red)

Well, lots of babbling. Thanks for reading this far if you got here haha.

 

[evadne]

To mount the PSU with an offset, one of my tricks is to use longer screws with washers (not bolts) as this gives you great stability. Should be 6-32 machine screws. Further this arrangement allows you to gain a bit more space (5mm extra) which is handy.

I ended up mounting the PSU vertically anyway due to how the SF600 is put together.