Log Sliger CL530 - Tame RTX 3090 FE?! (Build Log)

Kommando

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This video shows another reason to just turn off depth of field / motion blur. --> Better image quality and more frames. :)
PS: Wow, that hit on translucent reflections is insane.
 
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MarcParis

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This video shows another reason to just turn off depth of field / motion blur. --> Better image quality and more frames. :)
PS: Wow, that hit on translucent reflections is insane.
yes indeed...it will be perfect timing for second run of this excellent game...testing improved riser airflow (and maybe tweak cpu...if time allows..;))..;);)

Digital foundry is not mentionning also some very CPU intensive area in the Medium..:)
 

MarcParis

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update 14th February 2021 : RTX 3090 FE & R7 5800X are tamed! (CL530+ is born!)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's start with RTX 3090 FE inside CL530.

First thanks to @Kommando for inspiration on CL530 riser mod!
I decided to follow his example...mod is pretty simple & straight forward...but I was unprepared to final outcome of this mod!

Here is final assembly result :
BEFORE : Riser is creating a wall!


AFTER : Riser lines split & grouped by 2. Make sure to keep all flex on extremities, not in the middle


I didn't encounter any issue to put back RTX 3090 FE in position


Important : Before powering it ON, you have to check that all back fans are free to spin freely!

That's a pretty mod, isn't it? But what its benefit ??!!

Long story short RTX 3090 FE potential thermal throttle is fully gone inside CL530!!!
Cherry on the TOP, R7 5800X is also cooler as exhaust is working better!


I saw important temperature drop on either RTX 3090 FE Core & GDDR6X, meanwhile back fans temperature remains approx the same
  • Core : From 77°C/76°C to 71°C/72°C (in peak)
  • GDDR6X : From 110°C (thermal throttle) to 102°C (104°C in peak)
  • Back Fan temperature : 62/63°C
  • R7 5800X : From 71°C to 67°C
On top of that, RTX 3090 FE fans are spinning slower than previously, reaching now 1200 rpm with 300-310W load (better than in my Cerberus-X stock)!

Any evidence?!
Of course, just compare those 2 CONTROL runs :
BEFORE :
  • In 10 minutes
  • RTX 3090 Core : 76°C
  • GDDR6X : 110°C
  • Back fans temperature : 62°C
  • R7 5800X : 71°C

AFTER :
  • In 15 minutes
  • RTX 3090 Core : 71°C
  • GDDR6X : 102°C (104°C Peak)
  • Back fans temperature : 62°C
  • R7 5800X : 67°C

By the way I first tested Cyberpunk 2077 with this mod, after one hour of gameplay I just realized that GPU temperature was no longer rising...Thus I decided to test apples to apples with a new Control run!


Let's proceed now with R7 5800X paired with Noctuaed IS-60 EVO inside CL530.

I insist that Noctua AM4 backplate (from L9i/a) is a must to properlly compress heatsink on CPU IHS.

On CPU, I simply tweak 92mm bottom fan curve (damnit this small 92mm 14mm (2500rpm version) fan is noisy!..it should be called NF-A9x14 PPC as it's sharing their noise level..;))

To compare cooling & CPU performance I ran several time Intel Burn Test 2.54, Very High Profile (like in Cerberus-X) :
  • Stock R7 5800X RAM @ 3200MTS (CL530, Noctuaed IS-60 EVO), average all cores clock of 4250Mhz :
    • IBT 2.54 Very High : 789.41sec (13.8% faster than R7 3800X OC 4.3Ghz)
    • Max temperature : 86.3°C
    • Max CPU Package Power : 133.36W
  • Overclocked R7 3800X 4.3Ghz @1.3125v RAM @ 3800MTS (Asetek 645LT Intake, Side Exhaust) :
    • IBT 2.54 Very High : 915.72sec
    • Max temperature : 78.9°C
    • Max CPU Package Power : 120.03W
  • Overclocked R7 3800X 4.3Ghz @1.3125v RAM @ 3800MTS (Noctua C14S Push/Pull Intake) :
    • IBT 2.54 Very High : 915.80sec
    • Cinebench R20 (multi) : 5120
    • Max temperature : 73.9°C
    • Max CPU Package Power : 119.23W
  • Overclocked R7 3800X 4.3Ghz @1.3125v RAM @ 3800MTS (customed 92mm watercooling, push/pull) :
    • IBT 2.54 Very High : 917.12sec
    • Max temperature : 79.5°C
    • Max CPU Package Power : 118.33W

I saw some users were reaching 90°C (at stock) with AIO 240mm...I don't even know how they can manage to do so!
Basically I'll keep stock R7 5800X (love seeing boost clock at more than 4.8Ghz..:))
While gaming R7 5800X is within higher 60°C (65-67°C in modded CL530) (you can check Control Runs video).



I'll finish with some phtos of the external, especially with my HI-FI feet assembled with magnetic tape :



Only advice : never use Acetone to remove glue on paint (I just managed to whitened one corner of CL530..:( )


As a conclusion, modded CL530 is really astonishing! Reaching those temperature is such case size with such power angry components is a feat!
When buying CL530 I thought it was just average on temperature management, however, it is one of the best suited case to feat new RTX 3080/3090 GPU!

Now it's time to enjoy playing with it!

PS : I hope this feedback will be helpful to @KSliger @shadowfear & @riba2233 for CL520/530 and P/N ATX cases
 

Kommando

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Awesome and wholesome report of this tweak! I like it, especially with the pictures showing everything in detail. Those results are better than i expected; I didn't compare it side by side. 👍 Also those tapes look much better than cable ties.

It's nice to see that the IS-"74" Evo is doing magic in your Conswole as well.

PS: I wonder if you did check out AMDs PBO2 feature, undervolting the voltage curve? It looks like it uses a pretty high voltage for the clock speed. You might squeeze out a bit more performance while maintaining the same power target and temperature.
(I'm running the 5800X at less than 100 W, until i got my SF750). It peaks at 4850 MHz with no additional overclock.
 
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MarcParis

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Awesome and wholesome report of this tweak! I like it, especially with the pictures showing everything in detail. Those results are better than i expected; I didn't compare it side by side. 👍 Also those tapes look much better than cable ties.

It's nice to see that the IS-"74" Evo is doing magic in your Conswole as well.

PS: I wonder if you did check out AMDs PBO2 feature, undervolting the voltage curve? It looks like it uses a pretty high voltage for the clock speed. You might squeeze out a bit more performance while maintaining the same power target and temperature.
(I'm running the 5800X at less than 100 W, until i got my SF750). It peaks at 4850 MHz with no additional overclock.
Thanks..:)

Sure Noctuaed IS-"74" EVO is working great..:)

Yes I checked PBO2 but basically I would prefer using all cores OC, way easier to test..:)

But for now i'm testing case orientation..:)
 

MarcParis

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I've just checked horizontal stand (with HIFI feet, approx 2cm height) with CL530+ (modded riser) with either back exhaust fans towards up or down.

Basically none of horizontal stand (up or down) are good. In any situation, case is overheating very quickly. Airflow is blocked with horizontal stand.
Results are simple : in a Control Run I'm reaching 76°C-78°C on RTX3090 FE & 108-110°C in less than 5 min (cold start).
With back exhaust fans towards top, it's taking a little bit longer to overheat (1-2 min more).
 
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Kommando

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Did you also check the difference between certain vertical orientations?

Btw. the orientation of the power supply is really strange. I'd prefer to have it exhaust upwards. Away from the GPU. Not towards it.
 

MarcParis

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Did you also check the difference between certain vertical orientations?

Btw. the orientation of the power supply is really strange. I'd prefer to have it exhaust upwards. Away from the GPU. Not towards it.
Well you are right..psu is exhausting towards gpu but also back exhaust fans.
It will be interesting to swap psu orientation and also vertical stand
 

MarcParis

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New lesson learned while using 120 hz monitor/TV.
I found a game, Twin Mirror, whose FPS management (just Vsync inside menu) was just awful. Basically I was reaching 335W of RTX 3090 power consumption (despite undervolting), 110°C on GDDR6X, easily reached, 77°C..a a few minutes (faster than Control, Cyberpunk, TheMedium).

Solution was to impose proper fps limiter (60 for this game) in Nvidia driver panel directly.

That's really weird as on Little Nightmares, I was reaching 120 fps with no significant overheating.

As conclusion, 120 fps should be kept for limited games that have been optimised for it..:)
 

MarcParis

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@Kommando how did you manage to fix fan on top of sfx psu please?
Based on my latest experience, my psu is clearly recycling hot air and becoming noisiest part of my setup (more to come..:))
 

Kommando

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@Kommando how did you manage to fix fan on top of sfx psu please?
Based on my latest experience, my psu is clearly recycling hot air and becoming noisiest part of my setup (more to come..:))
I didn't fix it. It's fixed by pressure.
The distance between the SF450 and the cover plate is around 26 mm. The NF-A14x25 fits just fine if you mount the Standard plastic dampeners. NF-A12x25 should be fine, too.

The fan should make hot-air Recycling harder, at least for the PSU. But your hot graphics card won't like it much. Once my SF750 arrives, i'll have a look at the mounting mechanism again. It really is dumb to have it blast the hot air towards the GPU.

PS: The USB-Header cable does also provide some support for the fan.
 
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MarcParis

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I didn't fix it. It's fixed by pressure.
The distance between the SF450 and the cover plate is around 26 mm. The NF-A14x25 fits just fine if you mount the Standard plastic dampeners. NF-A12x25 should be fine, too.

The fan should make hot-air Recycling harder, at least for the PSU. But your hot graphics card won't like it much. Once my SF750 arrives, i'll have a look at the mounting mechanism again. It really is dumb to have it blast the hot air towards the GPU.

PS: The USB-Header cable does also provide some support for the fan.
Ok thanks a lot. Not so great fixing mechanics.:)

Anyway I think PSU hot air recycling is a noticeable concern (common with Node 202 or P/N-ATX) for PSU lifespan.
I already lost too many psu due to too hot cases (2 in Sugo SG07, 1 in Node 202), not stating it's the loudest part of the setup.


Let's see what I will do.
 

Kommando

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Oh it really is great. The fan won't move, once the cover plate is mounted. That is assuming that both PSU have the same height.

Alternatively you could fix it with zipties to the cover plate.
 

MarcParis

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Oh it really is great. The fan won't move, once the cover plate is mounted. That is assuming that both PSU have the same height.

Alternatively you could fix it with zipties to the cover plate.
OK I will check it this week end.
 
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MarcParis

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update 28th February 2021 : Additional tweaks for CL530 (long-term)!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to my first experiments/builds with CL530, I was negatively surprised that my PSU SX800-LTI (v1.0) was forced to protective shutdown! As solution I switched it by Corsair SF750 and it was working well.
However for long/intense gaming session I was hearing fan noise, that was clearly not from other fans (cases, cpu cooler or RTX 3090 FE)....it was in fact SF750 fan that was screaming...remembering me dark times from Node 202, where PSU was simply too warm. This problem is clearly not not short term.

Worst solution is to replace "so-called" noisy fan by Noctua fan (as I can read a lot of topics) without solving main root cause : case internal is too hot, leading to either lack of exhaust or intake as a direct consequence of hot air recycling!

My 1st action to test if my SX800-LTI was able to support or not RTX 3090 FE, in proper conditions. Thus I put them back to my "all-mighty" Cerberus-X (pre-production sample from early 2017!..:))



What can I say about this experience?
Well very simple..just have a look (if not already done..:)) to my video (same benchmark in Control, same parameters on RTX 3090 FE (1800Mhz @0.806v), except fan curve...no need to tweak it!)

RTX 3090 FE is simply so cool on both Core (64°C, time to fan to kick up, -8°C vs best setup in CL530) or GDDR6X (100°C, -6°C/-8°C vs CL530).
This experience was shockingly good as it's proving one more time my cooling concept inside Cerberus-X (rear 92mm AIO intake simply rocks for gaming!!).
I also try to overclock my RTX 3090 FE but with no great success as coil whine was increased due to higher power draw. Balance (Performance/noise-cooling) reached with 1800mhz @0.806v is really good on RTX 3090 FE (still higher clocks than by default!)

Anyway at the end of experience, I was seriously considering to get rid of CL530 for a case similar to Cerberus-X (like NR200P). But thanks to @Kommando with his additional fan on top of PSU in CL530, I decided to give it another try!

My decision to give another try to RTX 3090 FE in CL530 was also motivated by my experiment of my MSI GTX 1080 ti Gaming X inside CL530...not so "cool" as you will see in incoming lines.







Unfortunately results were not so great (to stay polite) :
  • MSI GTX 1080 Ti Gaming X : 83/84°C....at stock settings! As comparison same GPU in Cerberus-X with massive overclock (+17% power) is reaching 76°C....
  • CPU : Another side effects of opened air GPU...its hot air is warming also CPU...it's reaching 80°C with NF-A12x25 spinning at max speed!
  • Geforce sharpened filter : well only positive output from this experiment : I ran Control in 1080p (high details) on 4K TV (LG CX 55) and to be honest it was looking good! I also tried it on my 27" monitor, even on 1080p it's looking surprisingly good...it will be good to see if I see any massive difference with DLSS 2.0...maybe for another day!
With both issues (PSU overheat & GTX 1080 Ti very bad cooling performance) it was clear CL530 has reached its last trial...if not succesful CL 530 was doomed to be replaced with no remorse.

Here are changes of the last chance build for CL530 :
  • Addition of a 120mm x 25mm fan on top of SFX PSU (thanks @Kommando) :
    • I used Fractal Design Venturi HP-12 PWM fan (really goods I'm using since 2016 as far as I remember)
    • I appreciate a lot their Rubber corner
    • Fan is fixed with cut power cord from PSU plug
  • Replacement of Noctua NF-A12x25 by a second Venturi HP-12 PWM fan...but why???!!!
    • 1st reason : vibration! IS-60 EVO with 2 fans tends to vibrate a lot. Rubber corner of HP-12 PWM have proven to be quite effective so far
    • 2nd reason : design! HP-12 are not as gray as photo
  • Case orientation :
    • As stupid as it seems, putting GPU on top (vertical stand) is leading to better overall temperature. Thus I'm back to this setup.


What about results?
For a change, I decide to use Control...;) However in this trial run I decide to focus more on more demanding areas (compared to first run) where RTX 3090 FE was using about 320-330W (max consumption reached with 1800Mhz/0.806v)


Cooling results :
  • RTX 3090 FE:
    • Core : 74°C with spikes to 75°C with fan around 1420 rpm
    • GDDR6X : 106°C with spikes to 108°C
    • Compared to 1st trial temperatures are higher by 2°C approx
  • R7 3800X:
    • 73/74°C with HP-12 fan around 1100/1200 rpm (easy comparison versus GTX 1080 ti trial...:))
    • Compared to 1st trial, CPU was reaching barely 70°C. +3/4°C degress with similar fan speed
  • PSU:
    • Trial is too short to hear screaming..:)) Let's move to longer trial

Now time to do long trial...3 hours of Cyberpunk 2077! This should be very representative of new setup performance!

Here are focus on RTX 3090 thermals


Average values are the most interesting one :
  • RTX 3090 FE :
    • Core :
      • Max : 75°C
      • Average : 70°C
    • GDDR6X :
      • Max : 106°C
      • Average : 98.3°C
    • Power :
      • Max : 326W
      • Average : 271W
    • Fan speed :
      • Max : 1443rpm
      • Average : 1313rpm
First point : SF750 fan didn't scream during this gaming session! I'm convinced that this additional fan is essential in CL530!

CL530 was very close to anticipated retirement! With this build CL530 won some time!
I'm amazed with my Cerberus-X (4 years later...) but I'm still doubtful with CL530...

Now I still need to check when gaming load is constantly at max power usage, issue I encountered with Twin Mirror, in specific scenes GPU power is reaching 330W and CL530 became really noisy...
 
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Kommando

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The 3090 is one hot beast to tame!
There are still some things to try, but the airflow management is likely the "problem" here. In a next revision of this case the position of the air-removal fans should be considered.
While intake is huge with the complete side-panel inhaling, the exhaling seems to pose a problem. Maybe there is some hot air recycling going on. PSU fires into the direction of the GPU. Especially in your case, with only the one GPU fan, it might just exhaust through the front and get back into the GPU.
Otherwise, with the big fan on top of the PSU, it might even provide some cooler air for the GPU now.

On the one hand, the design of the case seems to fit very good to the FE, with intake on the front panel and output on the other side.
On the other hand it might still be better to have two fans providing cool air to card, forcing the hot air out somewhere else than the front panel.

Also I still think it would be better to have the PSU blast upwards. Would need some modding though, since the cable looks to be too short.

Additionally some more mesh on the 80 mm thin top side would help (80 mm fan location?).

PS: I removed the rubber corner on my IS-60 NF-A12x25 fan and it was just enough to not make contact with the case. Also used the short screws provided with the cooler. Had to enlarge the upper holes by drilling though, to fit the screwdriver through that hole.
 
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MarcParis

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The 3090 is one hot beast to tame!
There are still some things to try, but the airflow management is likely the "problem" here. In a next revision of this case the position of the air-removal fans should be considered.
While intake is huge with the complete side-panel inhaling, the exhaling seems to pose a problem. Maybe there is some hot air recycling going on. PSU fires into the direction of the GPU. Especially in your case, with only the one GPU fan, it might just exhaust through the front and get back into the GPU.
Otherwise, with the big fan on top of the PSU, it might even provide some cooler air for the GPU now.

On the one hand, the design of the case seems to fit very good to the FE, with intake on the front panel and output on the other side.
On the other hand it might still be better to have two fans providing cool air to card, forcing the hot air out somewhere else than the front panel.

Also I still think it would be better to have the PSU blast upwards. Would need some modding though, since the cable looks to be too short.

Additionally some more mesh on the 80 mm thin top side would help (80 mm fan location?).

PS: I removed the rubber corner on my IS-60 NF-A12x25 fan and it was just enough to not make contact with the case. Also used the short screws provided with the cooler. Had to enlarge the upper holes by drilling though, to fit the screwdriver through that hole.
Well thanks again for your support.

I'll continue experiments with RTX 3090 FE inside CL530. After I cannot also forget results from Cerberus-X...so cool & quiet..:)
CL530 is exhausting well hot air as temperatures are decreasing pretty fast once load is gone.

Fingers crossed that my current CL530 setup will last..:)
 

Kommando

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Well thanks again for your support.

I'll continue experiments with RTX 3090 FE inside CL530. After I cannot also forget results from Cerberus-X...so cool & quiet..:)
CL530 is exhausting well hot air as temperatures are decreasing pretty fast once load is gone.

Fingers crossed that my current CL530 setup will last..:)
At this moment I'm just glad i see someone else optimizing this case. Cause I'll stick with it. It's optimal for my use case. 😊

Can't wait to receive my SF750, which has been postponed to the end of March again, yesterday.
 
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MarcParis

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At this moment I'm just glad i see someone else optimizing this case. Cause I'll stick with it. It's optimal for my use case. 😊

Can't wait to receive my SF750, which has been postponed to the end of March again, yesterday.
Your welcome, thanks to you too.
Yes it’s not so easy to find team mate to optimize a case..:) Hopefully this sff forum exists..:)
I don’t really like Reddit as people are mostly posting to share aesthetics not really good operation..:)
 
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MarcParis

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Well, here is a short feedback after a couple of weeks of usage.
I finished Cyberpunk 2077 with no overheat or deafening fan noise..:)

My concern is more related to dust as case lays directly on floor.

I’m also checking alternative case like NR200p equipped with filters. No urges for now.