SFF projectors?

[zovc]

Hey!

Still figuring out my travel stuff, and portable projectors seem more practical than trying to cart around a display that's more comfortable to use than my laptop's 15.6" screen. Like, where am I going to put a 22"+ display in a bag I'm trying to carry-on?!

But, looking into smaller projectors, I've run into a lot of question marks. And after a recent probe on Reddit I'm even more confused.

First, it seems like "pico" projectors--I'm specificially referring to ones that have similar volume to a smartphone--are limited to resolutions of ~x480, which is probably less ugly than it sounds but I'm a modern user who is spoiled by 1080p+ being everywhere. My interpretation of their specifications when I read that their "Native Resolution" is ~x480 is "the image that comes out of this unit will always be scaled down to this resolution." So, when these units list that they "support" 1080p, to me, that means they accept an input signal and image that is at 1080p, but there's processing/scaling that happens in the projector before the image is shown at the native, ~x480 resolution.

A user on Reddit contested this, saying that the built-in Android OS runs at the native resolution, but when you use the unit as a projector, it projects a 1080p image at 1920x1080. This is contrary to my intuition, but I'm hopeful that I'm wrong.
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Second, I got into that conversation because I was trying to ask about what I think is called oversampling. I forget where, I think it was in a LTT video, but I saw that it's possible to convince your computer to render things at a resolution that is much higher than what your display can actually present, and then your GPU/CPU scales the image down for your display's actual max resolution. This sounds a lot like what my interpretation of the projector does, but I was wondering if there was a way to go above and beyond what the projector is doing on the side of my laptop. In emulators, I know I've done this by setting the emulator's graphics plugin's "native resolution" to a very high setting--4K or even 8K--and then just running the emulator full-screen on my 1080p display. There's a noticeably large increase in visual fidelity (and GPU load) when this is done. Am I able to do this either through Windows 10, or through Nvidia's drivers on my laptop so that it affects everything?

Third, it's really hard to tell what's actually different about a lot of these smaller projectors. Amazon seems like a decent source for a large variety of these, but it's hard to find actual information about the products on their page, and sometimes it seems dubious at best. Like, nearly all of the projectors say they're 1080p projectors, but end up just "supporting" 1080p when you're looking at their description and low-key admitting the native resolution somewhere far down in the description. If you have any particular model suggestions, it would definitely help me focus my search or at least have a point for comparison.

Thanks!

 

[ChainedHope]

1. The pico i've used (Aaxa "brand") would accept a 1080p signal but it was indistinguishable between 480p and 1080p. I'd assume your correct about it downscaling the image to fit the native resolution. Thats not always a bad thing tho as can be seen from scaling 4k to 1080p, but when your blowing it up to a 55''-70'' or even bigger screen at that low of a resolution its noticeable and not really ideal.

2. The feature is called OGSSAA (form of AA). It renders at a higher image and downscales it to the native resolution. To my knowledge the Windows app that used to let you do this (can't remember the name) is no longer available but you can DIY it. The old way was to use a desktop virtualization program that would run as a virtual monitor which you could set to 4K and then it would be downscaled to fit your physical monitor. Other than this you can only really use it in games. I know you can get it working with Nividia (700+ series) and AMD GPUs (200+ series). As to if a pico projector can do this, maybe a Nividia tegra based projector but to my knowledge thats not a thing. Intel and ARM cannot do this to my knowledge with their iGPUs so im going to side with the skeptics outlook and say no.

3. A lot of the chinese / no-brand pico projectors are the same OEM just repackaged. I'd go and look at the more highly rated ones and see how they turn out.

 

[zovc]

1. That user did some more of their own digging and seems to agree with my original stance. And, yeah, I'd be less bothered by a downscaled image on a smaller display, but like you said, the whole point is to be viewing a larger image with a projector. Meh. They actually pointed me to a 720p projector that is still quite small looking, so that might be the best I can do without looking to the larger options like LG's short throw, which is like 7" x 4" x 4". (And I've determined that that is way too big to travel with, unfortunately. A lot more expensive, too.)

2. I'll try to look into that, thanks. I am familiar with "custom resolutions" in Nvidia's control panel, which lets me run my 1080p desktop monitors at 1440p, even though they don't report they can do that (and their spec sheet doesn't mention it), but that's not the same thing. Hopefully it can be done, but I guess it'll still only do so much with a softer "analog" image coming out of a projector.

3. Yeah, it definitely seems like that's the case.

 

[ChainedHope]

Yeah the custom resolution thing is cool but a big drain on resources. You are essentially pushing a higher resolution after all. I know on my Nanos since the Crimson Update (a few years ago?) I have the option of supersampling my resolution to 4k which will be dropped to 1080p on my monitor. It looks really good but it also means I don't get the full refresh rate out of my monitor (144hz). Just some trade offs.

 

[chx]

1. There are several solutions to carry on monitors we have a big thread on them. I myself have a Sharp LL-S201A and two PackedPixels.

2. The absolute best portable projectors are the Microvision ones, Celluon PicoPro and Sony MP-CL1 / CL1A. It's unbelievable what they deliver for their small size. They are not quite full HD but still, 1920 x 720 is nothing to scoff at when the whole thing is about the size of a larger phone. Amazon Warehouse has 300-320 USD deals for it which is awfully, awfully tempting. Thanks God they don't ship to Canada, lest I'd buy one when I already spent a small fortune on a ThinkPad 25 and stuff for it.

 

[zovc]

I fully understand that there are monitors that can fit into a carry-on bag, but by comparison, all of the projectors you've linked are much less than a quarter of the volume and weigh much less. That's why I'm leaning towards a projector!

That Sony projector looks the most promising of those three, the other two have a lower native resolution than 720p at a similar footprint.

 

[Soul_Est]

LG has a few: http://www.lg.com/us/projectors

 

[jtd871]

 

[zovc]

Those are both really big (edit: relative to the ~30L space I'm working with) and pretty heavy for traveling. I'm trying to keep my bag under 7kg if I can and it's gotten to the point where I'm removing the 2.5" HDD in my laptop and getting a lighter power brick. haha

 

[chx]

That Sony projector looks the most promising of those three, the other two have a lower native resolution than 720p at a similar footprint.

Check again, all Microvision laser engine projector have the same in between 720p and 1080p res.

 

[zovc]

Check again, all Microvision laser engine projector have the same in between 720p and 1080p res.

What Microvision projectors are you referring to? All of the ones on Projector Central have 840*480, which would be below 720p.

 

[IntoxicatedPuma]

Xgimi Z4 Air?

 

[zovc]

I found the LG PH150B pretty well below MSRP, so we're going to give it a shot and see how I like it and how it fits into my bag. It weighs 1.4lbs, and I think the weight might end up being more of a concern than the size.

 

[chx]

I already posted the two existing microvision projectors above...

 

[Nightblade]

Here you go. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824332027

M6 measures just 7” x 7” x 2.1”

 

[chx]

Oh OK. Are we going that physical size? The projector I recommended, the Sony MP-CL1A with its weird 1920x720 res is 6" x 3.13" x 0.55". If we are going for much thicker projectors then the smallest is the Vivitek Q8, it is full HD , 7.4" x 4.4" x 1.7" (still much smaller than the Aaxa M6 and only 1.4lbs vs 2.5lbs).

 

[Nightblade]

Oh OK. Are we going that physical size? The projector I recommended, the Sony MP-CL1A with its weird 1920x720 res is 6" x 3.13" x 0.55". If we are going for much thicker projectors then the smallest is the Vivitek Q8, it is full HD , 7.4" x 4.4" x 1.7" (still much smaller than the Aaxa M6 and only 1.4lbs vs 2.5lbs).

@chx yes, but Aaxa M6 is native 1920x1080 res.

You also have to consider that at this range we are talking in size, it doesn't amount to much difference comparing the two. Yes the Aaxa M6 is is 1 pound heavier. Is it worth it? Depends on how much you want to spend and how much you are willing to carry around.