Concept SFF Case (15-20L) that fits mATX boards & ATX PSUs

[Nouvolo]

Just wanna gather your thoughts and interest on a larger SFF case (target 150-20L) that fits mATX boards. Since mini ITX board prices are getting to ridiculous levels I am thinking maybe this can lower the overall cost of the build. There are also other factors:

• cheaper and more choices mATX boards
• cheaper, more choices, and higher power ATX PSU
• GPUs getting bigger, need a bigger size PC case anyway
• may support 280mm radiator for better cooling

Lets have a discussion.

15-20L "SFF" PC case design draft features

• supports mATX (mini DTX & mini ITX)
• supports ATX PSU (shorter form), and SFX, SFX-L
• Orientation - vertical (Meshlicious) or horizontal (Steck) - please suggest
• Internal layout - standard (no riser) or sandwich (need riser) - please suggest
• supports 240 (up to 280mm) radiator

I may decide go ahead with this project, only if I feel that there is enough interest in this.

Oct 2022 - First Draft Designs

1) Boxy Mesh too similar to SSUPD Meshroom D
2) Rounded Corners with mesh panels

 

[Gotmachine]

Since the main keyword / distinctive feature here seems to be "cheaper" :
- No riser cable
- Orientation/internal layout focused primarily on aircooling perfomance
- ATX PSU support is debatable. My suggestion is either do primary and comfortable 160 mm (ideally 180 mm) ATX PSU support, or don't do it at all and have only SFX-L support.

 

[Arboreal]

A well designed and thought out 15L mATX case would be useful. It would need to have good airflow, probably no TG side panel.
I think its footprint would be important to consider, so that it would compete well with ITX cases on the desk space front.
mATX motherboards need to be chosen carefully for their onboard features , compared to ITX boards.
A PCIe 1x slot may be needed for a WiFi card, (plus other of the '3' possible slots - a GPU will be 2 slots minimum) so a sandwich design may not be
ideal for maximising flexibility.
Risers also seem to be a potential pitfall for sandwich designs with PCIe 4 being more demanding.
Not sure about ATX PSUs, SFX-L should be sufficient
I would prefer horizontal orientation, but vertical may be more suitable for others

 

[GuilleAcoustic]

My 2c suggestions (mostly already said above):

• No riser, just classic layout
• No TG
• Massive front to back airflow
• Either ATX with generous length or SFX-L (no short ATX please)
• As vented of a front panel as possible, with low airflow restriction (I'm thinking about you, dust filter)
• I'd even leave the back as opened as possible to help with air recirculation, just push that air out

 

[Nouvolo]

So far seems like riser cable can be crossed out, and assume we focus on traditional layout (i.e. no )

I have done some back of the envelope calculation on the volume based on the following:

• mATX dimensions : 245x245mm
• Up to 4x slot GPU on mATX can stay within 245mm
• Using one of the biggest & "common" cards Asus ROG Strix RTX 4090, Dimensions: 357.6 x 149.3 x 70.1mm
• GPU total height = spec height + 15mm, to account for the rear metal bracket (sticking out at the bottom)
• GPU height clearance : add another 30mm for the power adapter

Absolute minimum volume, just to house the main hardware, excluding fans and other accessories :

36 (L) x 25 (H) x 18 (W) cm = 16.2L

My guestimate will be closer to ~18-19L, to include accessories and other structural parts.

BUT there is a big concern for any creator. This kind of case will be very similar and compete with NR-200 and the likes, which are selling at lower prices and with wider availability. One way to stand out is to work on the aesthetics and styling, but that is very subjective and may not beat a low price tag. What other value proposition do you think is there to offer?

Really need to pool you SFF big brains on this one... If it is going to be another (bigger) NR-200, then I would just probably get that instead. Lets have your thoughts.

Note:
Cooler Master NR200 Specs
376 x 185 x 292 mm = 20.3L , that's based on external measurement, internal probably tad smaller

 

[alfdpw]

My guestimate will be closer to ~18-19L, to include accessories and other structural parts.

BUT there is a big concern for any creator. This kind of case will be very similar and compete with NR-200 and the likes, which are selling at lower prices and with wider availability. One way to stand out is to work on the aesthetics and styling, but that is very subjective and may not beat a low price tag. What other value proposition do you think is there to offer?

Really need to pool you SFF big brains on this one... If it is going to be another (bigger) NR-200, then I would just probably get that instead. Lets have your thoughts.

Note:
Cooler Master NR200 Specs
376 x 185 x 292 mm = 20.3L , that's based on external measurement, internal probably tad smaller

A major difference is that NR200 supports only mini-ITX motherboards and those are getting ridiculously expensive. And GPUs are also getting ridiculously big and NR200 supports only 330 mm in length with up to 3 slots.

So in my opinion with better aesthetics (please not another generic box) this case will be competitive compared to NR200.

 

[Bubba]

This is my ideal small-form-factor PC case.

* Max dimenions 255x255x155 (or 260x260x150) = 10 litres
* Supports small micro-ATX because small micro-ATX are the cheapest motherboards.
* Uses TFX or SFX PSU (because they are cheap/available and have good cooling). Otherwise use external brick.
* Absolutely no riser cables.
* Metal is preferred. No need to see inside case.
* Forget about watercooling. Forget about RTX 4090

This is my ideal internal PSU. It is only 300 watts but the size is ideal.

TFX TGS

Seasonic Industrial TFX TGS

seasonic.com

Mount PSU at top/front/right. Alternatively, at bottom/front/right.
Be careful that PSU (and PSU cables) do not block GPU, or ram, or cpu cooler.

new-computer-case-size1 hosted at ImgBB

Image new-computer-case-size1 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

 

[Nouvolo]

This is my ideal small-form-factor PC case.

* Max dimenions 255x255x155 (or 260x260x150) = 10 litres
* Supports small micro-ATX because small micro-ATX are the cheapest motherboards.
* Uses TFX or SFX PSU (because they are cheap/available and have good cooling). Otherwise use external brick.
* Absolutely no riser cables.
* Metal is preferred. No need to see inside case.
* Forget about watercooling. Forget about RTX 4090

This is my ideal internal PSU. It is only 300 watts but the size is ideal.

TFX TGS

Seasonic Industrial TFX TGS

seasonic.com

Mount PSU at top/front/right. Alternatively, at bottom/front/right.
Be careful that PSU (and PSU cables) do not block GPU, or ram, or cpu cooler.

new-computer-case-size1 hosted at ImgBB

Image new-computer-case-size1 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

We would like to try to pack the high end stuff into the smallest possible form factor.

There are many solutions out there already if you are not concerned about performance. e.g. nuc , mini PC (with integrated GPU)

 

[Bubba]

We would like to try to pack the high end stuff into the smallest possible form factor.

There are many solutions out there already if you are not concerned about performance. e.g. nuc , mini PC (with integrated GPU)

If a person has enough money to buy a new RTX 4090 and new 1000 Watt ATX PSU and huge watercooler, then they also have enough money to buy a new ITX motherboard. Your proposed micro-ATX case with ATX PSU will not be smaller than existing ITX-only cases that already support ATX PSU and already support RTX 4090 and already support watercooling.

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

 

[Nouvolo]

I may be wrong, but most current sff cases can't fit RTX 4090? Maybe only FE version? Those AIB cards are thic.

Lets list some cases with high compatibility here as reference.

 

[alfdpw]

There is thread on the forum with very comprehensive list for SFF cases and their compatibility: SFF Master List

 

[Timeless]

You could wait for the RX 7900 XT which hopefully will be smaller than the RTX 4090.
I would like to have at least 2 USB A ports in the front and no glass, please. We need all ventilation possible to handle a 13900k + 4090.
Also with 19L can we fit a 360 rad?

 

[Nouvolo]

You could wait for the RX 7900 XT which hopefully will be smaller than the RTX 4090.
I would like to have at least 2 USB A ports in the front and no glass, please. We need all ventilation possible to handle a 13900k + 4090.
Also with 19L can we fit a 360 rad?

Definitely will take my time until the latest round of hardware is all released and dust settles.

360 rad will be a stretch I think, but 280 may be more realistic. General rule of thumb, any rad size needs to +35mm to its length i.e. 360+35 ~ 400mm case length. The extra length is required to account for the ports at the end.

 

[Nouvolo]

There is thread on the forum with very comprehensive list for SFF cases and their compatibility: SFF Master List

Thanks, seems we can go anything <20L and still be regarded as SFF

 

[Nouvolo]

You could wait for the RX 7900 XT which hopefully will be smaller than the RTX 4090.
I would like to have at least 2 USB A ports in the front and no glass, please. We need all ventilation possible to handle a 13900k + 4090.
Also with 19L can we fit a 360 rad?

I probably won't go glass panels for new models, even as optional add on. It's one more item and hassle to handle in terms of operation and logistics, and not worth it that is getting even less desired by users.

 

[XNine]

In my not so humble opinion, there's too many cases that tell us that we have to use such a limited range of hardware on the market. I bought in to the Protolyth Slate simply because it actually caters to high end builds with custom water-cooling and doesn't limit me nearly as much as pretty much every other case out there in SFF territory.

I haven't built a personal rig that had air-cooling in over a decade. Give it 20 Liters of space to accommodate custom loops, and a layout that isn't a vertical tower (or at least had the option to go horizontal) and you'll already have a lot of attention on it, especially given the size of newer gpus

 

[Nouvolo]

In my not so humble opinion, there's too many cases that tell us that we have to use such a limited range of hardware on the market. I bought in to the Protolyth Slate simply because it actually caters to high end builds with custom water-cooling and doesn't limit me nearly as much as pretty much every other case out there in SFF territory.

I haven't built a personal rig that had air-cooling in over a decade. Give it 20 Liters of space to accommodate custom loops, and a layout that isn't a vertical tower (or at least had the option to go horizontal) and you'll already have a lot of attention on it, especially given the size of newer gpus

Lets share your thoughts of your preference between horizontal vs vertical layout. I would have thought vertical layout can save some foot print size? Or a big put off from difficult to access IO ports?

 

[XNine]

Lets share your thoughts of your preference between horizontal vs vertical layout. I would have thought vertical layout can save some foot print size? Or a big put off from difficult to access IO ports?

Difficult to reach I/O is the bane of my existence, lol. I also prefer the looks of a horizontal layout. That doesn't mean it can't do both, though, like the Slate does. I ordered the feet for it so I can do a horizontal build.

Footprint is the least of my concerns, personally.

 

[hrh_ginsterbusch]

My favorite calculations are based around a riser-based, 280 mm radiator focused custom case, so just a few thoughts of mine strewn in:

a) Stowing away the PSU for mATX: An option could be Densium 4-style, ie.positioned below mainboard + GPU, with a raised floor; ie. SFX + SFX-L, thats just 64 mm + feet, and with ATX, its 85 mm + feet. This would also solve the issue of blocking ports - although my calculations and mockups for my Mesh-mATX build show, that if done RIGHT, one would be able to not block the PCIe sockets by moving the PSU to the RIGHT side instead of the "original setup", ie. on the left. Still, having the PSU out of the way from the very start feels like a much better way to go about than the "gracefully moving around and hopefully not blocking anything" option.

b) My original test calculation with this set up was 42 x 27 x 12 cm ~= 13.6L; smaller options could be 39 * 27 * 12 ~= 12.6L, and the smallest still somehow usable was 36 * 27 * 11.5 ~= 11.1L, but thats really stretched it a bit far (as in: being cramped AF). With the last one you would also be stuck with only a 240 mm radiator, probably a thin one (max decent AIO would be smth like the be quiet! Silent Loop 2 240 with 27 mm thickness).

cu, w0lf.

ps: sorry for being slighty too talkative, have worked through the night

 

[Nouvolo]

My favorite calculations are based around a riser-based, 280 mm radiator focused custom case, so just a few thoughts of mine strewn in:

a) Stowing away the PSU for mATX: An option could be Densium 4-style, ie.positioned below mainboard + GPU, with a raised floor; ie. SFX + SFX-L, thats just 64 mm + feet, and with ATX, its 85 mm + feet. This would also solve the issue of blocking ports - although my calculations and mockups for my Mesh-mATX build show, that if done RIGHT, one would be able to not block the PCIe sockets by moving the PSU to the RIGHT side instead of the "original setup", ie. on the left. Still, having the PSU out of the way from the very start feels like a much better way to go about than the "gracefully moving around and hopefully not blocking anything" option.

b) My original test calculation with this set up was 42 x 27 x 12 cm ~= 13.6L; smaller options could be 39 * 27 * 12 ~= 12.6L, and the smallest still somehow usable was 36 * 27 * 11.5 ~= 11.1L, but thats really stretched it a bit far (as in: being cramped AF). With the last one you would also be stuck with only a 240 mm radiator, probably a thin one (max decent AIO would be smth like the be quiet! Silent Loop 2 240 with 27 mm thickness).

cu, w0lf.

ps: sorry for being slighty too talkative, have worked through the night

PSU below motherboard, for mATX boards it will look something like below, which will be quite large:

The layout I have in mind will be something like: