S4 MINI Classic (S4M-C)

Curiosity

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That's a nice keyboard you have there!
Is that a Leopold?
I'm rocking a brown cherry TKL Camo Filco Majestouch :p
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard/...enkeyless-nkr-tactile-action-usa-keyboard.asp
It's a Pok3r, with clears. :)

Also, so far the USV14 is doing a terrible job. It's quieter, but has some odd noise characteristics and a hum vs the L9i's louder but smoother woosh. And it was much hotter, we'll see if I did a shit job with my thermal goo application when I take the C7 off though.
Results soon, after I get the stock C7 fan tested.

Edioting this post to not spam the thread too bad:

I'll personally be sticking with the L9i.
Also pictures taken during testing will be up in just a moment.
 
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Josh | NFC

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Jun 12, 2015
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I sound like a broken record, but the NHl9i just does it for me.

1. It's super quiet and the noise it does make is not annoying to me.
2. It performs very well--the curve is perfect, and at full bore it still is quiet. Maybe not the BEST performance, but dang it is right up there with the best.
3. It has the best mounting solution of any cooler I've ever used and it works because of the extremely tight tolerances of the machining.
4. It comes with thermal paste I can trust, and a generous amount.
5. It is beautiful and a step above most other coolers in finish. I'm not saying it matches or blends in, but it is a beautiful piece of hardware on it's own.
6. I used to think it was expensive, but I've changed my mind after buying a boxload of $60 cooler failures.

But here is the thing....it has ALL those points. You can buy a cooler that might exceed it in one or two of those points...maybe...but the NHl9i has ALL those points. So while you might be able to buy four coolers, hack them up, combine them, and get something that works a little better...maybe...you can just plop down 40 bucks and know you are going to get something that gets a A in all categories.

For me, the LP53 has too many compromises, and for the price it should be at least as good out the box.

And STILL no sponsorship from Noctua. Come on guys...you could send me a sticker or something...

XD
 
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Bruman

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Feb 24, 2017
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cant see your screenshot?

But yeah bro, playing the New Zelda in CEMU at 4K on my S4 mini is a DREAM! Once April 2nd rolls around the the new build of CEMU fixes almost 99% of the bugs and physics glitches, I'll be starting a new game and it's going to be GLORIOUS!

Also... I saw this post on reddit today:
https://www.reddit.com/r/sffpc/comments/61poc5/my_s4_mini_came_in/
A guy was able to fit a Cryorig C7 into his S4 mini with a custom xt140 fan... I had no idea this was possible!


Now I'm left wondering and browsing the web to figure out if the C7 with that fan can outperform an NHL9i or the LP53 even. If I find indications that it can... well I know what I'll be buying next. XD I am SUCH A WHORE for low CPU temps, dear GOD what is WRONG with me. XD

Oooh I really like that internal USB 3 header to external USB port thingy. It's got screw holes... If I had known about this one I would have bought it and cut holes along the S4's rear vent holes (by the GPU's Rear I/O) kinda like how you showed everyone how to reposition the DC/DC power port for an "easier" Gigabyte GTX 1070 mini fitment. Then I'd have like... a really slick custom additional USB ports! But I'm happy how mine is so far, my usb parts are just loose inside the case, containing 2 wireless adapters for my wireless peripherals, freeing up USB ports on my rear I/O. :D

The guy says in the Reddit thread " The fan is held by the heatsink squeezing it onto the case lid", what does that do for temps? Nothing good I bet since having the fan hard up against the case has had bad results for others in this thread, with smaller fans though so who knows.
 
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Curiosity

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Yeah, the L9i Is the definitely the winner here.
Scratch the pics of the testing process, i forgot to take one or two so there's no real use in the pictures.
 

CubanLegend

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Dec 23, 2016
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So over on the LP53 thread on the [H]ardOCP forums, like I mentioned someone tested it on the Z270i and noted having to remove both VRM heatsinks and possibly the first RAM stick to fit it with the fins parallel to the RAM... BUT he also left me with this amazing google sheet of Dan A4 thermal results:

The preview below I filtered to only the 7700K results and ordered them from lowest load temp to highest (after 10 mins of P95 26.6)... but just keep in mind that some of these are running stock C7 and stock LP53 fan configs that WONT FIT in the S4 mini. the original link to the google sheet is here and containts WAY more coolers AND CPUS and details and you can filter out the results nicely.
From these results you can see where one user "Kreyyr" uses a mix of the C7 and the NHL9i using the stock A9x14 fan, and you can see he tries various frequencies, fan RPMs, but he achives the HIGHEST temp drop to the CPU core under load, after removing the rear I/O shield, and the 2 VRM heatsinks to improve the CPU HSF's airflow. But notice how his NHL9i config almost EXACTLY matches his C7 configs at the same clocks. WOW! The NHL9i certainly seems to be the clear winner over the C7.

The XT140 is probably quieter, but I can't directly test that.
I can test the C7 + a USV14 though. Which I'm about to do after I basline my L9i.
Here's my test setup:

It's a Pok3r, with clears. :)

Also, so far the USV14 is doing a terrible job. It's quieter, but has some odd noise characteristics and a hum vs the L9i's louder but smoother woosh. And it was much hotter, we'll see if I did a shit job with my thermal goo application when I take the C7 off though.
Results soon, after I get the stock C7 fan tested.

Edioting this post to not spam the thread too bad:

I'll personally be sticking with the L9i.
Also pictures taken during testing will be up in just a moment.
holy crap! Thank you! :D Man, I really gotta hand it to the NHL9i... wow! Yeah... that sucks how the C7 isnt better with a fan that'll fit inside the S4 mini. Did you happen to test the C7's heatsink with the NHL9's fan? or will that not fit inside the S4 mini?

By the way bro, what did you use to do your load temp tests? :D
I sound like a broken record, but the NHl9i just does it for me.

1. It's super quiet and the noise it does make is not annoying to me.
2. It performs very well--the curve is perfect, and at full bore it still is quiet. Maybe not the BEST performance, but dang it is right up there with the best.
3. It has the best mounting solution of any cooler I've ever used and it works because of the extremely tight tolerances of the machining.
4. It comes with thermal paste I can trust, and a generous amount.
5. It is beautiful and a step above most other coolers in finish. I'm not saying it matches or blends in, but it is a beautiful piece of hardware on it's own.
6. The price is kinda expensive, but I've changed my mind about that after buying a boxload of $60 cooler failures.

But here is the thing....it has ALL those points. You can buy a cooler that might exceed it in one or two of those points...maybe...but the NHl9i has ALL those points. So while you might be able to buy four coolers, hack them up, combine them, and get something that works a little better...maybe...you can just plop down 40 bucks and know you are going to get something that gets a A in all categories.

And STILL no sponsorship from Noctua. Come on guys...you could send me a sticker or something...

XD
Dang, you pretty much seal it right there, you should link to this post in your OP of this thread, it feels so definitive. But the numbers and facts of the build quality and ease with which the NHL9i performs over it's competitors... it's too definitive to ignore it. I do feel like some coolers MAY outperform it in some ways. But you're right, there will be sacrifices made in other areas, you're ABSOLUTELY RIGHT on that front.

I mean even with the LP53 im getting later this week I can TOTALLY see your point now, that i'll have to remove both VRM heatsinks, maybe even one ram stick to get it to fit how I want for optimal airflow (fins parallel to ram) to dissipate CPU heat. And I dont even know HOW BIG or HOW SMALL the decrease in temps may be over the NHL9i once I get the LP53 inside the S4 and close the side-panel. But, even if the temp decrease is BIG, like 5-10c big (from inside the S4 mini with side panel on) it's still going to come at a cost. :( But honestly, I can live with moving from 2x8 DDR4 to 1x16GB DDR4 and removing the VRM heatsinks, just to eek out space to mount and clearance for airflow of the LP53, if it's in the name of a significant CPU temp decrease, because that temp decrease will give me a HUGE headstart on reaching even lower operating temps once I delid this 7700k. and it will even allow me for more overclocking headroom once it's all said and done, if I ever want to push the CPU in the future to sqeeze more performance out of it.
The guy says in the Reddit thread " The fan is held by the heatsink squeezing it onto the case lid", what does that do for temps? Nothing good I bet since having the fan hard up against the case has had bad results for others in this thread, with smaller fans though so who knows.
Dude that is a great eye you have, I didn't notice that at ALL. Yeah that wont bode well for a C7 in the S4... dang. This and the testing @Curiosity did seal it for me in knocking the C7 w/a slim 140mm fan out of my list of possible NHL9i outperformers.
 
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CubanLegend

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Dec 23, 2016
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I think the only way to beat the L9i is to make something pretty similar in copper.
Isn't the NHL9i copper but nickle plated? Oh thats right it has aluminum fins are , well... aluminum. lol hmmm, I wonder if Noctua ever made a full copper NHL9i? id kill for one with double the heatpipes or maybe direct contact heatpipes, in full copper.
 

CubanLegend

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Dec 23, 2016
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Yeah exactly that. Aluminum fins, and copper everything else with full nickel plating.
I remember reading about some aluminum SFF heatsink that had limited editions released in full copper, but I dont remember which one. :(

Anyways... found something interesting here: https://hardforum.com/threads/dan-a...in-the-world.1799326/page-259#post-1042901057

Once again it's a post from the DanA4 thread at the [H]ardOCP forums, i found the post from the guy who got a 6c temp drop by using a fan duct on his 7700k & NHL9i! Here's what he did and the post he wrote about it, including this results. Pre-delid, post delid, post-delid with fan duct, and then his post-delid/fan-duct/custom fan curve. AMAZING!

Hi guys, first time poster here, have been lurking for a while, ever since I placed my order on kickstarter.

Thank you Daniel for this amazing case.

I am new to the SFF crowd, coming from the silent PC world (silentpcreview.com), having spent quite some time and energy on minimizing the noise coming from my PC. My whole setup resided in a Fractal Design Define R5 before. All I did, was to get another mobo and PSU and move everything over into the Dan Case. To be honest, I was a bit sceptical, if this would work out for me, as the R5 setup is just quiet. Never heard a thing of it. It did work out in the end, but it took a few measures.

A few words on airflow:
The main idea about airflow in the silent PC world is to create a path for the airflow, which is as unrestricted as possible. No obstacles (HDD cases right behind the intake fans), no corners, which the air has to move around (intake fan blowing into the case horizontally, exhaust fans sitting in the top, blowing out vertically). Air is so light, we do not feel it normally. Nevertheless, every molecole in the air is subject to inertia and thus does not want to change the direction of it's movement. This is not to be underestimated.
So the ideal build from this point of view creates an airflow in one straight line. For example: 1 intake fan in the front panel (with no HDD cage behind), 1 cooling fan sitting on the heat sink, 1 exhaust fan at the back. All three of them in one line. This will create the maximum effect, with the minimum of effort and noise. Quite simple, actually.
If you want to maximize this effect, you will create a duct (tunnel), to avoid air moving astray.

The concept of positive and negative pressure setups:
A regular PC case offers multiple spots to mount a fan. Some of them will act as intake fans, others will operate as exhaust fans. There will also be cooling fans inside the case, sitting on your heatsink and GPU.
If you only mount intake fans and no exhaust fans it is called positive pressure setup. Pressure will build up inside the case and the (hot) air will be forced out of the case. Upside of this setup is, that you will have a nearly dustfree environment inside the case, if you combine this with dustfilters at the intakes. Downside is, at equal temperature levels it will be a bit louder than a negative pressure setup.
If you only mount one or more exhaust fans, without any intake fans, it is called negative pressure setup. There will be a very slight vacuum inside the case, so air will be sucked into the case at every possible gap. Downside of this setup is increased dust buildup inside the case. Upside is, it is mostly a quieter setup.
Most people will build a mix of intake and exhaust fans to create a slightly positive or negative pressure setup, which will work out as the best balance between maximum cooling at minimal noise. If you combine this with a good airflow in mind, you will end up with a pretty silent setup.

Now, to get to the actual point of this post:
What makes the Dan Case so special to me, is that each fan operates at the same time as intake fan, cooling fan and exhaust fan. The suction side of the fan is it's intake function, the pressure side is it's cooling and exhaust function. To make this work, you have to strictly separate the suction side from the pressure side. Otherwise, a certain amount of hot air will be recycled through the heatsink. Again, quite simple.

Here is, what I did: Create a small duct for the CPU fan, which separates the suction side from the pressure side. A cardboard strip (cereal box in my case) of 20mm width, is enough for the NH-L9i.

Here is what I gained:



Granted: Delidding the 6700K brought down the temps by 17° (delta from 67° to 50°), but the fan duct reduced it by another 6° (delta from 50° to 44°).
I created my custom fan curve in SpeedFan (I could do the same in BIOS actually), which settles the fan speed @ 1800RPM creating a delta of 51°. Which to me is quite bearable, acousticly as well as thermally. It is not as silent as my R5 of course, but good enough to trade 48 liters of volume (the R5 is lovely, but big).

So there you go: It is probably the cheapest and easiest mod. It is certainly not beautiful, but it brings down your temps by 6° or it relaxes your fan speeds at equal temps.

I did not do this yet to my GPU (MSI GTX Gaming 10709 but I will try it at some point.

We could totally try this with some cereal box cardboard, I'm gonna try it and vinyl spray or plastidip the peices in black, too. Hell, it might even help a bit with hiding some of the beige on the A9x14, HAHAHA! Maybe I can get some extra temp drop from using such a fan duct inside the S4 with my current NHL9i config, before I even get the LP53! :D I'll test it and post results later this week.

Also, I see a LOT of results on that spreadsheet from my last post (the DanA4 thermals sheet) that show the ASUS Z270i STRIX being run WITHOUt the 2 huge VRM heatsinks, what I'm seeing is users are installing custom MOSFET heatsinks (click the pics below to see the full posts)

like this (to fit an AXP-100):


and this to fit an LP53:



It's truly motivating to see these mods, and to have links to those mosfet heatsinks so I can swap out my 2 HUGE ones for these tiny ones in favor of improved airflow for optimal CPU cooling! :D
 
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Curiosity

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holy crap! Thank you! :D Man, I really gotta hand it to the NHL9i... wow! Yeah... that sucks how the C7 isnt better with a fan that'll fit inside the S4 mini. Did you happen to test the C7's heatsink with the NHL9's fan? or will that not fit inside the S4 mini?

By the way bro, what did you use to do your load temp tests? :D
I totally forgot to not what I used to test, you're right!
I used LinX-0.6.5 with these settings:


To be fair, it's possible the XT140 could do better than the USV14, but I can't test that. I also don't think it would outperform the L9i.
 
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Kmpkt

Innovation through Miniaturization
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So does that shroud extend over the entire heatsink or only the fan. If only over the fan, then I suppose it's just managing air leakage between the fan and the heatsink. If over the entire heatsink, then I would attribute better cooling to forcing the air to travel over the entire length of the shroud.
 

threestripevida

Airflow Optimizer
Mar 28, 2017
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I've been lurking here for a bit and following this case for sometime now, but I have a i7-6700k currently and want to move my build into the S4. Would you guys recommend I switch to the 7700? Or should I keep my 6700k and delid it to get better thermals? Sorry if this isn't the place to post this!
 

Kmpkt

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I wouldn't upgrade from a 6700K to 7700 or even 7700K for that matter as the difference between the two isn't really that substantial. As far as delidding the 6700K, I'm not sure it yields quite as strong a thermal delta as delidding the 7700K seems to.
 

threestripevida

Airflow Optimizer
Mar 28, 2017
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I wouldn't upgrade from a 6700K to 7700 or even 7700K for that matter as the difference between the two isn't really that substantial. As far as delidding the 6700K, I'm not sure it yields quite as strong a thermal delta as delidding the 7700K seems to.

I figured as much. From most things I've been reading delidding the 6700k doesn't do much like you said. While I want to keep the same performance as I do now I wouldn't be losing much from going with the 7700, would I? Like I said thermals are my big concern.
 

Kmpkt

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If thermals are really your concern, you can easily underclock the 6700K a little to significantly reduce power consumption and heat production. Honestly in most systems at resolutions > 1080p the GPU is going to be far and away the bottleneck for the system so much so that you can aggressively under clock the 6700K and probably notice little to no real world difference in the gaming experience. I've been running a 4690T (35W) chip for ages, first with a GTX 1060 and then aGTX 1050 and have never had any kind of decrease in performance tied to said chip.

What I would consider doing as a academic exercise would be to build out your system and then run something like Unigine Valley or Heaven at full clocks and then under clock and recheck and see how low you can go before you see significant loss in performance.
 
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Zero

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Jan 27, 2017
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Hey guys, I found a very solid way to mount an S4 to a VESA arm with no marring/scratching/mods to the S4 at all.

It just requires widening the outer mounting holes of the VESA mount (I used a Dremel with carbide cutter bit), and common bicycle chainring fixing bolts (here's a 4-pack for $3: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005GXPKNI/?tag=theminutiae-20)

The bolts make contact with the inside of the S4 cover, and the reverse side of the VESA mount, while the outside of the case is held flat against the soft gaffer's tape I put on the VESA arm. Everything is super strong and I can just grab and adjust the PC on the arm. Now I have one arm for my PC and one for the monitor... if only I could clean up the rest of my desk it'd look really nice!









 
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