Log Playing with the team red

[Elaman]

# Playing with the team red​

**Disclaimer**: This is my idea of a build log. I like my whys and my rationales, so I add an explanation for everything. I'd try to summarize and maybe I can use spoilers that allow to hide big chunks of post.

During the summer I started to grow a fascination for this little SFF world, and in a matter of days I was searching this forum and just looking at one build after another. I don't quite understand why I like this so much. I realized that at some point I wanted to be a spectator no longer and make a build myself.

What I expect from this PC:

• * There shall be **learning**. This is my first build, so we are here to to play, and get in trouble.
• * Finished and benchmarked, this build should showcase the **advantage of desktop over laptop** to some degree, to a long time laptop user like myself. And I think, so many others like me in 2021.
• * It shall run **Linux**, if it runs at all.
• * It shall have **water cooling**.

Too many options, so my planning goes as follows: SFF limits the components that you can have (unless you are @petricor). The case limits cooling space, the cooling space limits the components' power that you can use within reasonable temperatures. I also thought that the case since SFF is rather custom, would be the last component to arrive. So, just choose the case first!

 

[Elaman]

# Choosing a team roster: Case and cooling​

Spoiler: Package from REVOCCASES

## RCC-BIG1​

If you were with me, looking at cases on the internet, you would feel like you went shopping for handbags with your girlfriend, I can spend an entire afternoon and not decide on anything.
Really I like most of the styles too: sandwich is amazing, console is really cool and vertical cases in general. In the end I went to https://comparesffpc.com/ and spent a lot of time just observing how the cases look like on a table. (https://comparesffpc.com/ is such a great resource, I recommend it to any new builders.)
Finally I realized I like the look of vertical cases the most. The BIG1 is slightly smaller than the NZXT H1, it's from @REVOCCASES who participate actively in the forum. As a little consumer of the Covid era, I want to support the more open alternative.
And I mean, just look at this thing:

## GxR-ONE DC-DC power supply​

## BRICKMOD550 AC-DC adapter​

## BIG1 RADBRACKET80​

As said earlier, the build will have water cooling. How, I don't know. Hopefully you were not under the impression that I know what I am doing. But I know these elements give me the possibility of water cooling in this case.
The brick itself is such a great thing to have. This can be useful for saving space in any build!

With this, I have a space budget and also a power budget: I should stay within <550W.

Spoiler: Case and accessories

## Alphacool Nexxxos X-Flow 80mm radiator​

## Tube, filling kit, coolant, etc.​

@REVOCCASES was clear that one should use an 80mm radiator for this case, so I am limited in surface. Thickness doesn't help as much as surface in heat dissipation, but it's better than nothing; might as well get the thickest one I can find.
My only preliminary check was whether this chonky boi was actually fitting in the CPU side of the case.

Radiator goes on this side. It seems to fit, in fact I still wonder if I couldn't have used a 90mm one. Still, I suspect that this "X-Flow" shape may give me some trouble. But so far, I only want to know if my build is "doable".

## Alphacool Eisbaer LT solo​

I will try to do my water loop as simple as possible. This fits within the CPU cooler height allowed by the case, and it gives quite the flexibility. I probably don't have to worry about memory stick dimensions. All in all I am really fascinated by such a compact solution that one could reuse for so many other use cases...

This is the first time I do this and I am already quite invested, in terms of time, money, and attention. I don't even have air cooler to default to. In fact, I don't even know if the components are compatible! I am already having fun.

 

[Elaman]

With the cooling, one question that comes to mind is whether it is possible to turn on the pump without having the loop connected to the motherboard, just to test that there are no leaks.
The Eisbaer's connector has three pins, one is clearly ground and the other most likely VCC, I wonder if it could be turned on with something like a battery, but still keep all that liquid away from the motherboard for a while.
I have some adapters for the pump connector that came with the refilling kit, but they all go to the motherboard.

There is also Alphacool's leak testing tool, which includes a pump. Maybe that could be enough...

 

[REVOCCASES]

With the cooling, one question that comes to mind is whether it is possible to turn on the pump without having the loop connected to the motherboard, just to test that there are no leaks.
The Eisbaer's connector has three pins, one is clearly ground and the other most likely VCC, I wonder if it could be turned on with something like a battery, but still keep all that liquid away from the motherboard for a while.
I have some adapters for the pump connector that came with the refilling kit, but they all go to the motherboard.

There is also Alphacool's leak testing tool, which includes a pump. Maybe that could be enough...

you can use one of your bricks to do this (maybe 9V Battery might also work) ...

 

[Elaman]

you can use one of your bricks to do this (maybe 9V Battery might also work) ...

That would be the best testing I think, closest to the real thing! I need to find some cables like those.
This can be anyway first checkpoint:

with manual pump, and of course I have to keep it vertical...

 

[REVOCCASES]

need to find some cables like those

Maybe you could re-purpose one of those? Just cut one end and strip the insulation?

 

[Elaman]

While I wait for parts, I can rehearse something like this for now, without an actual loop and without actually turning it on. Perhaps I could improve a little bit on the "how to hold the loop vertical":

 

[Elaman]

# Choosing a team roster: Silicon wishlist​

The CPU/GPU market had some pretty exciting launches at the end of 2020. That has in part excited me to make this build, but at the same time made this build so much slower. Thus I call this more a "wishlist" than a proper parts' list.

## ASRock B550 Phantom Gaming-ITX/ax​

The original idea is that of a "Team Red build" ( * ), so I went for B550 chipset in anticipation to the new Ryzen 5000 series launch, which I naively thought was a good idea to wait for, as if I would be able to "just buy" one. I also made sure to get the firmware update service, again really thinking I would make use of the board with the new Ryzens.

+ ASRock for good reputation in motherboards
+ Phantom Gaming because reasons.

( * )

Spoiler: Linux and the Team Red meme

Many in the Linux community are grateful to AMD for their efforts on 2020 (e.g. [AMDGPU stats]).
Support for the Radeon RX6000 series has been excellent for Linux since release, with changes being merged to the kernel [way before release].
As a developer myself, I have to respect when somebody have the courage to put their software out there. Especially drivers that perform as well as these.

​

## Corsair Force MP600 1TB​

This is one of those many things where I just look at [Linux benchmarks] and cross my fingers.

## G-Skill Trident Z DDR4-3200 CL14 2x16GB​

Here I looked into benchmarks as well, and was not convinced about the improvements that I was seeing on Linux with higher frequencies. But got RED memory sticks because reasons.

Spoiler: TR memory

## AMD Ryzen 7 5800X​

In the thread for BIG1, the most benchmarked setup features a 3800X (BIG1 benchmark). I am of course, very interested in the water-cooled setup. Not reinventing the wheel here, so I want something with similar power envelope. Linux benchmarks for 5800X came up, et voilá:

https://openbenchmarking.org/embed....&sha=841afc2735b4ad27868500ca284db12c715715e6

Reference

I know that this CPU might still be too much for this cooler and maybe I need to consider eco mode. But I am not going any lower than 5800X, either. Here is a sneak peek of what my poor overworked laptop cores look like, on a regular weekend...

Spoiler: Poor cores

 

[Elaman]

Choosing a team roster: hunt for a GPU​

I went back and checked AMD's presentation from the end of October and I made a guess of which GPU to pair with the already decided 5800X:

Spoiler

Once again the test system for BIG1 had a 3800X and a RTX 2080 Super. Once again I am interested in the power envelope in [benchmarks], and it puts the 6800 in a very similar power consumption to the 2080 Super (mostly lower consumption, mostly better performance).

But as if my own pickiness wasn't enough limitation, there are also the dimensions of the case itself:

Oh, but one doesn't "just" get a GPU now, does he?
If the plan is "go go AMD", I want to get my GPU and CPU through non-Ebay channels. That is joining some queue in some local enough vendor. This is OK enough for the CPU which I could pre-order and just wait but, here where I live, we had no information on when the RX6800s will be launched and when the reference cards were sold, you could not really join any queue. Soon I realized, that my only real chance was to get one of the AIB cards. Combine that with a strict interpretation of the case dimensions and we really don't have any options. Looking at the SFF master list, there are only two that almost fit the bill:

To the point where one has to wonder "just a few mms... Isn't there something we can do here?".
And here is the very interesting response from our illustrious case vendor @REVOCCASES:

Now even the Sapphire looks possible.

Spoiler: Surely, there is something I can do about it?

I still need to see if/how we can get those 3 mm:

I think we "can":

Considering how long it takes for the cards to disappear from the shelves, I didn't have much time to decide. Only thing I want to know is whether to pull the trigger. Sapphire it is, let's get this going...

 

[Kubunteando]

Possibly some good news. Measuring the pictures from Sapphire website it seems that the measures on the specs are the maximum dimensions of the card. So those seem to include the bracket and the PCIE connector.
So if the bracket is not counted in the case maximum size of the GPU you may save there those 3 millimeters you seek.

 

[Elaman]

Possibly some good news. Measuring the pictures from Sapphire website it seems that the measures on the specs are the maximum dimensions of the card. So those seem to include the bracket and the PCIE connector.
So if the bracket is not counted in the case maximum size of the GPU you may save there those 3 millimeters you seek.

Yes. As risks come, 3mm extra may not be the biggest. Now as I get my hands dirty, I have happily found many more new things to worry about!!

 

[REVOCCASES]

many more new things to worry about!!

what happened?

 

[Elaman]

Mounting the motherboard and GxR​

From now on, my time is better spent just putting components together and figuring out as I go.

The first thing to do is mounting the motherboard and the GxR solution. This is fairly well illustrated in the [BIG1 thread].

I will now remove the cover of the case, and something tells me I won't put it back for quite a while... You can see in the background I closely follow the documentation...

... Passing the cables through and fixing them...

... Mounting the motherboard, checking how the power cables will be attached.
Here I have to admit, this GxR solution looks like magic so far. I wonder where's the catch.

Now that I'm at it, I will insert the SSD as well. I am so naïve that I think I am going to finish this today.
After inserting the SSD, I notice it comes with its own heatsink and after putting back the screw, some degree of wiggle room remains with respect to the heatsink under it (on the board). I can't imagine that heat will spread well if there is almost no contact to the sink. I can use a nut to get rid of the wiggle in the following way:

Since I am a first time builder, I am still wondering if this is

• orthodox?
• helpful?
• downright wrong?

Now I will also mount the bracket for the radiator...

At this point I tried to screw the radiator below and I could immediately see two problems:

• The four extra millimeters that I added have caused that the radiator bracket is also displaced up. Now I will need similar margin for the radiator to fit below the bracket. This margin will need to be exactly the same in the 4 screws, so the radiator will remain parallel to the bracket.
• These screws will not do for mounting the fan. I need some with a flat head, extra length, but also not so long that they actually sink into the radiator.

So all that's left is wait for reinforcements.

 

[REVOCCASES]

some degree of wiggle room remains with respect to the heatsink under it (on the board). I can't imagine that heat will spread well if there is almost no contact to the sink.

This really looks strange somehow. Maybe that heatsink is not compatible with your motherboard? Was there a thermal pad included?

Now I will also mount the bracket for the radiator...

from your picture it looks you are using the wrong screws / screw holes. But that one is on me for the missing documentation and I guess you can't see how its supposed to be in the BIG1 thread... apologies for that.

hopefully below picture will help: the outer holes are supposed to fix the rad-bracket to the fan/psu bracket, the inner holes are supposed to fix the rad to the rad-bracket. If your rad uses M3 threads, I should have included enough suitable screws.

Edit: you'll probably have to un-screw the 120mm case fan a few times. Once when installing the rad and later when you close the case and need to tighten the thumb screws on the panels (which will be another challenge).

 

[Elaman]

This really looks strange somehow. Maybe that heatsink is not compatible with your motherboard? Was there a thermal pad included?

Yes it looked strange and yes, the motherboard's own sink does include a thermal pad. However the mounting of the SSD is instructed in two ways in the manual, and one of them doesn't include putting the heatsink back on. The SSD is pretty well connected and tightly fixed though.
I'd say this is a problem and like Homer Simpson would say, this is a problem for Future Homer.

I have noticed some flat screws included in the box, only they don't match as closely that length that I am expecting there marked in green, which is very peculiar for my particular scenario.

 

[Elaman]

Attaching the radiator to the bracket​

Reinforcements have arrived:

From last time, I made sure to get a pretty accurate measurement of the screws I need. Too short, and the radiator doesn't fit. Too long and it sort of intrudes on the radiator and could damage it. Now here you can see what I mean:

And this is what it looks like in the case:

On the other side of things, there's the Eisbaer. First thing I notice is that Eisbaer cannot be mounted on the supports that come with the motherboard for air cooling. But it includes its own mounting plates for AM4 and instructions. So first I will remove said supports. I will not mount the Eisbaer yet, but I want to place its plates and Eisbaer itself over the CPU socket.

Radiator and Eisbaer placing is mainly so that I can measure the length of the tubes that I need from the Eisbaer to the radiator. I bought two rotary fittings and two straight fittings. Very quickly, I realize that I need to use both my rotary fittings for one of the tubes, otherwise it cannot bend enough to go over the memory sticks, all the way back to the opposite side of the radiator and yet bend again to vertical position. This leaves me with the other two straight fittings to connect the other tube.
It is doable, but I am already guessing that I will need more fittings. I will anyway cut the tube in the meantime, and rehearse.

Don't do this at home, folks:

If you are an experienced builder, you probably noticed something odd in that picture already, but for the rest of us noobies, here's the "loop":

Probably most people have noticed by now. These are 16/10 fittings and tubes.
Now to dissipate any doubt, look at what this thing looks like if holding the two ends in place:

The mechanical tension alone that I need just to keep these two in place gives me a very bad feeling. This will not hold. Not to mention the more straight cable is slowly slipping out of its fitting due to the tension. What I need is not one extra fittings, but altogether 13/10 fittings and tube.
Big bummer. But won't risk it. Such is life. More waiting ahead.

Epilogue: Evil Piece from the Underworld​

Calling it a day and wrapping up. While moving the motherboard back into a vertical position, suddenly a piece feels loose under it. Then it slides down over the case's chassis, through the small space that remains between the motherboard and the chassis once the motherboard is fixed. The piece lands on my palm.

It is the piece underneath the motherboard where the screws would become attached. After removing the air-cooling side supports, it got loose but was not noticeable while the motherboard was horizontal. It took me a while to figure out what this even is. Just double-check that everything is OK.
Phew...

 

[REVOCCASES]

only they don't match as closely that length that I am expecting there marked in green, which is very peculiar for my particular scenario.

Now I got it after seeing the new pictures / update.

 

[Elaman]

Now I have been already tinkering with the case for a while, but I guess it's never late for a team photo, is it?

 

[owliwar]

this is interesting cant wait to see how you resolve the watercooling bend there

 

[Elaman]

this is interesting cant wait to see how you resolve the watercooling bend there

Spoiler alert: I went so far as to fill the loop. Then I did the montage as in post #7 of this same thread, with the idea of making water circulate, eliminate any remaining bubbles.

But this time, I connected the red cable to the negative side, and the black cable to the positive side.
There was some sound in the loop. Some seconds after, a really nice smell of cooked rubber inundated the kitchen.
I disconnected the cables quickly, but the damage was already done.

Nearly half an hour later, poor Eisbaer is still smelling like burned rubber.
By the time I'm finished, I will have figured out all the different ways in which you can do this wrong :S