Log Playing with the team red
- Thread starter Elaman
- Start date
At first I would imagine that there could be some kind of fuse that goes off with the wrong polarity, but the sudden stop and the smell seemed somehow more serious.
So this is a good question and I was thinking about finding the answer, out of curiosity if nothing else. "Figuring things out" is some people's strange idea of fun.
It turns out that Alphacool actually provides the model files for lots of their components, including Eisbaer LT.
Pretty cool (pun not intended) to have,
although difficult for me without any CAD experience to figure out how to really disassemble the cooler.
But with that and some testing and prodding, I came to some kind of disassembly...
And when finally figured out how to un-screw the Eisbaer itself:
Difficult to see at first, because the "Eisbaer LT" panel covers the screws.
Which allows us to get down to the pump and disassemble the pump itself:
From up to down, one can almost follow the disassembly steps. Notice how the cover of the pump is also kind of burned? No, my fingers are not that hot.
And if there was any doubt, here is an even closer look at the pump:
Bang!
I bet you can smell it from over there.
It is funny how still nowadays connectors allow for wrong polarity connections.
I thought that was a thing of the past... fuses are not that common any more; the power supply most likely has one. Probably that is the only one.
Will you consider going air cooling for the CPU?
I thought that was a thing of the past... fuses are not that common any more; the power supply most likely has one. Probably that is the only one.
Will you consider going air cooling for the CPU?
Actually filling the loop
Air cooling seems like a sensible thing to do. I could consider this alternative...
... after I have successfully tried the water cooling.
This time I am going for 13/10 and I got straight away three rotary fittings and only one straight.
I cut the tube (which is much more flexible) to the same lengths as the 16/10 ones without putting it on the case and that might be a mistake. I am hoping that the three rotary fittings make up for it, they should give more room to maneuver.
I recall my setup which I [rehearsed], screw all four fittings pretty well, locate my loop vertical and begin filling. Immediately, one of the fittings starts leaking.
I get upset, empty out the coolant from all the parts, then I isolate that one fitting with that one tube alone. I just try to fill that part and just block the other side of the tube with a finger. Now it doesn't leak anymore. Who knows, what actually happened the first time.
I drain remaining coolant from all parts, put them to dry, and give me some time.
(...)
I have to say, even after seeing many videos, the first time one puts some money on own hardware and tries to fill a loop and it leaks, it can really disturb you.
My testing will go in two steps. First I will close the loop with just air, make sure all fittings are well fixed. Then I will put the leak tester, using the air pump to fill it just with air, and waiting for 20 mins to see if pressure drops. This is what I should have done the first time.
So. Welcome. To my kitchen.('s sink).
I observe no leaking whatsoever this time. Now a second time checking pressure, this time pretty much all the loop has is liquid:
After moving around and making sure all air comes up, that way trying to fill the last parts of the loop that still contain air.
The whole setup gives me much more confidence this time. A small win is just the right thing you need before going to bed.
Now I have been already tinkering with the case for a while, but I guess it's never late for a team photo, is it?
I'm currently looking at that exact motherboard myself, due to it has 4 USB ports on the rear I/O which is all togheter in serial. Rather than having them splitted all over the I/O, like on the ASUS ROG motherboards, which I've used for years. It also doesn't have an active cooling fan on the VRM, which the ROG boards do.
Although I've never used ASRock (sounds like your saying that the company has an rock arse... Like is it only me that is like thinking "AssRock" when saying the name?), so unsure about it.... What is your experience with it so far, if you have any?
From my experience, the easiest way to run the Alphacool DC-LT pumps without turning your computer on is just to get one of those USB to 3 Pin fan header adapters. They have step up versions for 5V to 12V if you need to run full speed to bleed the loop easier.
Don't have the ASRock B550 motherboard but have the X570 version. I actually really like ASRock specifically for ITX boards. I think they just do some fun stuff. Performance is fine too. I have no complaints.
Just spotted the LINKUP box in the team photo... did you buy a PCIe Gen 4 riser for your BIG1 build?
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You spotted right, sir. I wanted to be prepared for everything, and lots of time to wait for hardware to arrive and buy more things that I am not sure I need!
Hopefully you are not under the impression that I know what I am doing
I have not used other motherboards to compare it to, and I can't tell if my laptop's motherboard is good or bad. If/when I turn the ASSRock on, I am guessing that you will be way ahead, maybe AMD has already released new chipset.
My decision was between ASSRock and ASSUS, based on brand reputation, and it so happens that ASSRock has slightly better reviews on Linux world and less bells and whistles so more chances that it will work on Linux.
But first, let me tell you about what happened while trying to get through:
Mounting the CPU and the memory
Now I want to go ahead and fix the cooler. These (13/10) tubes are more flexible, but there is still some mechanical tension. I want to find out whether it is better to fix first the Eisbaer or the radiator. To really know that all heights and lengths are correct, now I need to actually insert the CPU and the memory.
This means I will need to get the loose plate from under the motherboard. Using a plastic pen, I try to situate the piece back under the holes again. I have to make sure that the four protrusions get through the four holes of the motherboard. I will fix it with two screws so that it doesn't move again.
Now I can try to figure out how the Eisbaer's plate is attached. If I interpret the manual correctly: the screw has one spring, then one washer, then one rubbery support, then goes the plate and underneath there is a nut.
Same should be done for all four corners. Washers and nut fall down quite easily. Getting all four in place just for testing I feel it's going to be as complicated or more than the real thing. Anyway I do it because I really want to see what looks like and if there is enough space for the tubes and the power cable.
When I am satisfied, as I am taking the Eisbaer away, the piece underneath the motherboard gets loose again, as I tilt the motherboard to put it back to vertical, another piece hits my palm.
This one is way smaller, my palm barely notices it.
It is a capacitor.
From the motherboard. That cost nearly as much €€ as the CPU.
It is difficult to describe, or imagine, how quickly and just how upset one can get in such a short time. But my blood pressure is sure going up.
I separate the motherboard from the chassis to see the scene of the crime.
The revenge of the Evil Piece from the Underworld
The motherboard CPU backplate before mentioned, has slipped down from its four holes again, has trampled its way through this capacitor while wiggling around.
I can see the marks on the capacitor itself and in the place where it was, so I can even tell in which position it was.
I have tin, soldering iron and very little patience nor the ability to think straight at this moment.
My brain only cares about three things: that the capacitor is damn fixed to its place this time, that there is conductivity to its previous connection, that there is no short circuit.
Now I will proceed to put this damn piece back.
Now I will put some duct tape all around because I don't want this to happen again. Probably will go back and put some more later.
Now I will have a tea. Maybe three teas. Chamomile.
Oh that's great. Looking forward how this one will work in the BIG1 since I haven't tested any Gen 4 Riser Cables yet.
OMG! Seems your build is kinda haunted by Murphys Law ... fingers crossed all will go well from here on ... 
Now there's two of us, with the same looking forward!Oh that's great. Looking forward how this one will work in the BIG1 since I haven't tested any Gen 4 Riser Cables yet.
As I complicate my life, I increment the probabilities of something going wrong. Some of us learn this way, by making mistakes. For example, if I succeed in booting up, I also plan on installing a distribution/family of distributions that I have never used before, something that I am not comfortable with.
I am also grateful for the logs posted in this site and that I learn from, so there is a possibility that somebody else reads this one and learns what not to do
Finally installing the closed loop
It is a new day. Taking the motherboard back to the chassis, I have decided to keep going, assuming the motherboard is going to properly function.
I try to remember the position in which the bracket was screwed to the radiator and the fan (mainly on which side do I want the power cable). Now it is time to put the cooler on the CPU.
I make a first attempt with the cooler sticker still on, put everything in place, see that my prior measurements are enough, unscrew and put thermal paste.
And here is how the cooler looks like with both fans. Although I will later relocate the cabling of the second fan and I will fix it to the board as with the GxR cable.
Now, as @REVOCCASES identified, like a good consumer I fell for the PCI 4.0 riser meme. I took into account the length of it, but oh, the shape... the shape!
I am now unfaded, as this feels like another (umpteenth) miscalculation to add to the list. I will bend it on the assumption this can be done, then compare to the cable that came with the case:
Obviously this is not a 180º cable, but the length in theory is enough...
Just in case I run out of problems, here's two that got me worried. This is how the shorter tube below ended up looking, after a while in this position:
Also, remember when I said I didn't expect I would be putting back the case cover for a while... ?
Also, note in the back there is a side view of that tube bend.
A day of super-hard work OMG how even
Above all, that tube doesn't give me any confidence whatsoever.
All in all, a bunch of questions, and things to consult with the pillow.
Now there's two of us, with the same looking forward!
As I complicate my life, I increment the probabilities of something going wrong. Some of us learn this way, by making mistakes. For example, if I succeed in booting up, I also plan on installing a distribution/family of distributions that I have never used before, something that I am not comfortable with.
I am also grateful for the logs posted in this site and that I learn from, so there is a possibility that somebody else reads this one and learns what not to do
Finally installing the closed loop
It is a new day. Taking the motherboard back to the chassis, I have decided to keep going, assuming the motherboard is going to properly function.
I try to remember the position in which the bracket was screwed to the radiator and the fan (mainly on which side do I want the power cable). Now it is time to put the cooler on the CPU.
I make a first attempt with the cooler sticker still on, put everything in place, see that my prior measurements are enough, unscrew and put thermal paste.
And here is how the cooler looks like with both fans. Although I will later relocate the cabling of the second fan and I will fix it to the board as with the GxR cable.
Now, as @REVOCCASES identified, like a good consumer I fell for the PCI 4.0 riser meme. I took into account the length of it, but oh, the shape... the shape!
I am now unfaded, as this feels like another (umpteenth) miscalculation to add to the list. I will bend it on the assumption this can be done, then compare to the cable that came with the case:
Obviously this is not a 180º cable, but the length in theory is enough...
Just in case I run out of problems, here's two that got me worried. This is how the shorter tube below ended up looking, after a while in this position:
Also, remember when I said I didn't expect I would be putting back the case cover for a while... ?
Also, note in the back there is a side view of that tube bend.
A day of super-hard work OMG how even
Above all, that tube doesn't give me any confidence whatsoever.
All in all, a bunch of questions, and things to consult with the pillow.
Unfortunately I'm not a watercooling expert and can't help much here... I just hope there are some other fittings / adapters and tubes that are more flexible / won't kink to solve this issue.
The guys from r/watercooling on Reddit are really helpful. Maybe you could post this there and ask for some advice...
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The most obvious thing is to do the measurements again and clearly I have to cut length on both sections of the tube.
Longer-term I probably have to get some further advice as you say. My assumption is that I add some 45º adapter or 45º fitting for the shorter tube, and then two 90º adapters/fittings for the longer tube, that way avoiding mechanical pressure and less problems with bending.
Then there is also the small issue that the length of the shorter tube is OK when the tube is measured, but when tightening the fitting, there is that extra twist that twists the tube a little bit. Maybe using a double-rotatable connector:
...could probably solve issues with torsion on the shorter section.
Turning Frankenstein on
As much as I don't like my current water loop, I have decided to go as far as I can, check whether I can put the remaining parts together and try to find additional blockers.
My thinking goes so that I want to make sure that I refill the loop another time, but not like **five** more times.
I am pretty sure now that I will refill the loop, as the tube looks really bent, and I don't want to use a loop like that. It doesn't seem like a good idea to reuse this tube section.
After some digging out and double-checking on the motherboard manual, I figure out which pin goes where in the power button.
These new cards are gigantic. Just look at the box compared to the whole PC case:
Time to put this damn fine GPU in my shamelessly bent riser.
Now this is the really nice thing about a case like this: the GPU has a compartment of its own and it really supports its weight. And this is another thing about the Sapphire Pulse: the actual card feels quite lightweight and easy to maneuver. I could not find the specifications, but the package for the Sapphire is roughly 1.5kg, while e.g. an EVGA 3080 is around 2kg. Anyway, no sagging even when horizontal:
It is so satisfactory when, after all this scrapping for extra millimeters, one puts the final piece on (that made the scrapping necessary) and it fits perfectly.
It lives!
And it seems to understand that it has an SSD!
What I can say from the start, is that I am very impressed that this runs at all. Despite the bent cables, the tubes, the capacitor. The first thing that I noticed, is how incredibly quiet it all is. I haven't had components like these before. This whole PC building business is really fascinating.
I guess I still have quite many things in my to-do list, but here are the two that seem immediate right now:
- The BIOS gave me an appetizer of what seem to be very bad temperatures. Right from the start, the CPU was at ~57ºC and in the time I spent looking around the menus it went up to 63ºC. At least the tubes were warm, and the fans were all spinning. Hopefully this is a consequence of the restricted flow of water due to the bent tube. Anyway, 60ºC on idle, as idle as it gets. Not a good sign.
- I do not have a 90º adapter for DisplayPort and my DP cable has been bent the whole time, pretty much holding the weight of the whole PC on its own. Not sustainable.
- Finally I have to unmount and empty this loop, measure it again and cut at least another tube section. Make sure this time there is no tension and the case can be closed.
- This motherboard looks like a circus. Gotta find a way to configure this whole RGB nonsense.
Congrats! Those signs of like are encouraging.
You are a step closer of having an operational computer.
About the temperatures rising in the BIOS do not worry so much. First the CPU will not go to lower power consumption until you have an Operating System, so it is normal the CPU runs a bit hot In the BIOS. Good temperature measures require the components to be inside the case with the case closed and an OS running.
You are a step closer of having an operational computer.
About the temperatures rising in the BIOS do not worry so much. First the CPU will not go to lower power consumption until you have an Operating System, so it is normal the CPU runs a bit hot In the BIOS. Good temperature measures require the components to be inside the case with the case closed and an OS running.
I am now so into tinkering that I think it would be almost disappointing to have the computer be operational so soon.
Certainly now I have had it running a bit longer times and I have experience that as you said, this seems to be at boot. Also after longer time, you really don't notice much increment in the number reported by BIOS, nor simply by getting your hand closer to the radiator/CPU block. I think the only part I sense somewhat hot is the backplate of the GPU.
But for now as I have been a bad boy, I have to go
Back to the kitchen
Some more online orders later (more spare tube just in case, a 90º DP adapter), and keeping the satisfaction that I could boot at least once, I take away the loop again because I cannot stand looking at that poor, mistreated, misunderstood, bent tube any more.
After emptying the loop again, I engage in a back and forth with putting the tubes and shortening them and putting them again until I am satisfied with the lengths.
In a way the real problem of the shorter tube section, is that due to it being so straight, it is really easy to twist when one is tightening the fitting.
I also made a visit to this excellent [writeup] about Eisbaer LT by @paulesko, which I wish I had paid attention to earlier. Here was everything: the tearing apart, the how-to replace the pump, but most importantly possible hints on how I could improve cooling. Unfortunately, it seems that my current orientation is already OK... ?
This time I plan on filling the loop, moving it around, getting the bubbles out, and going back and forth to connect it to is actual power connector in the motherboard to make water circulate.
In my effort to cover all possible variables, I wonder what's up with the little gaps in between the rubber corners of the Noctua, and through which some air could escape and worsen the cooling. We can't have that, can we?
I am sure this is completely unnecessary, but at least I try to match the duct tape with Noctua's color.
With all my measuring, I hadn't consider the very crucial part that is the fan below the radiator, which forces the rotary fitting to go quite to the left and consequently, the tube becomes too tense. See how it pulls the radiator if I just leave mechanics to do their thing:
The radiator is straightened (green), but the shorter tube (red) seems to threaten with bending again.
We can't have that. About the "long" tube, I know that having a longer section will smoothen the pull, but also it will prevent me from closing the case.
There is a third option, though. I have plenty of space below the radiator, and pretty long screws to choose from. What cannot be compensated in length due to curvature, will be compensated by longer screws tightened at different lengths:
I didn't leave the poor bracket in this state, but I thought it looks funny.
Now I am able to see both tubes properly open for enough water to flow (for the first time):
Behold, the circus that is the phantom GAMING in action, and that fan with glorious duct tape around.
Hopefully we can all foresee the GAMING that this motherboard is capable of.
Should be mentioned the CPU still looking at around 63º at startup. I would really like to monitor this a bit further down the line.
I don't know how to call this material, but I think you should really try to find some tubes like that:
This tubing is probably either Alphacool TPV or Tygon Norprene.
I am really digging your Worklog, keep it up
I am really digging your Worklog, keep it up
At first I used 16/10 TPV and I don't know if there is 13/10 TPV. I have now also used 13/10 PVC so there musn't be many tube types left, there is always the possibility that I can find the right one by elimination.This tubing is probably either Alphacool TPV or Tygon Norprene.
I am really digging your Worklog, keep it up
OK certainly I wasn't able manually bend the TPV like that, these tubes seem more flexible or maybe heat was applied? Especially that 180º bend in the middle, if I tried to do that with the TPV tube I have I'd probably flatten it:I don't know how to call this material, but I think you should really try to find some tubes like that:
Installing an OS
I am waiting for parts, and I made it a point that this machine will run Linux, and so Linux will be the first kernel that ever boots in this machine. But at the same time, I promised myself that I would run an OS that I have never tried before.
And what better OS to try out with my new Gaming motherboard! This is GamerOS' (and thus my build's) first boot:
Contrary to popular belief, [GamerOS] is not the name of a Mexican western movie, but more like an operating system for GAMING. Some say, "what SteamOS should have been", although I've never tried it. Hell, I've never tried Arch either (and that was the whole point).
All in all, I am impressed by how polished the installation is, and how plug and play the pretty much everything else has been. My self-challenge was not a challenge at all. So I want to shoutout the great [alkazar] for the amazing work. Let's keep in mind that GamerOS is a labor of love and for what I can see, most of contributions are currently done by one person.
Now I have been picky in the sense that I want a specific resolution/frequency combination at startup, a specific HUD, showing specific values.
If noticed in the "team photo", I do have an ASUS VG279QM which can theoretically reach up to 280Hz, and I intend to use them. Right now in the screen (AKA the Steam Compositor) the monitor HUD allows me to choose up to 60Hz and that is not cool.
If anybody finds themselves in this juncture and are interested (ignore the 'tee' log append, use '>' instead), these are the GOODMODES and GOODRATES I used in my "~/.config/steamos-compositor-plus" configuration:
In that picture, on top of the screen one can see the monitor's own FPS which reveals the monitor has 144Hz in terminal, which gives me an extra hint that those 60Hz in Steam were probably pure unadulterated bulls---.
Getting the counter up to 240Hz and even though I am not totally satisfied, I think now it is more worth putting effort on the software counterpart of the FPS meter.
For this purpose, GamerOS recently integrated a very simplified version of [MangoHUD].
Yet another FPS downgrade,
of course, difficult to believe that I am getting constant magical 120 FPS. This looks more like some kind of FPS cap and a consequence of the fact that everything in this OS is pre-configured and not so straightforward to change.
Eventually I probably want to use a full-fledged OS where I can run some benchmarks and monitor temperatures and Watts.
Now to be perfectly clear, that requirement is a bit over the top for Steam/GamerOS. This is an operating system described as "A Steam Big Picture based couch gaming OS". This is meant to be used from the couch.
Following up with my trend of looking at open-source-friendly companies, look who's been contributing to the Linux kernel recently: [a Sony employee].
The official drivers for the DualSense controller of the PS5 will be merged to the Linux kernel in [5.12].
In this GamerOS, I seem to have 5.11:
Which still, won't prevent me from trying this out, will it?
Despite not having the official driver merged into the kernel, it seems to me that Steam recognizes exactly what this thing is:
I tried this on a whim, and this is probably no new information to console fans, but... It blew my mind when I realized that the white rectangular thing above the DualSense is actuall a mousepad. Oh, now we are talking! This is amazing. As a lifelong PC user, give me a mousepad, and I can see how I could do all I need from the couch.
I thought my goal was to build a computer. My purpose now is going to be learning to play DotA2 with a PS5 DualSense.
Yes. This is very important for civilization.
