Discussion New build not posting / advice needed

[K3nshiro]

Hi All,

We had promised a PC to our son after his good results at school. He wanted a white themed PC with LOTS of lights...
Since I think that I do not have yet the option to share links here goes the HW used :


Case : Coolermaster NR200P
Mobo : Asrock B550 Phantom Gaming ITX-AX
CPU : Ryzen 5600X
SSD : Lexar NM790 2TB
RAM : Corsair Vengeance RGP Pro SL 32GB (CMH32GX4M2E3200C16W)
Cooler : Thermalright Assassing King 120 SE ARGB (fits perfectly)
GPU : Gigabyte Geforce RTX 3060 WIndforce OC 12GB GDDR6 Rev2
PSU : Thermaltake Toughpower SFX 550W 80 Plus Gold Modular
Additional ARGB fans : Thermalright TL-C12CW-S X3
Total Estimated Wattage : 329W

Now, being new to small factor builds it took us some time to have everything put in place and do some proper cable management. For the most part it's done, but still need to find a good way to hide all that clutter from those ARGB fans...

Anyway.

Everything was properly connected, PSU pins, motherboard pins, Front Panel pins, Audio pins, GPU pins.
Then the most expected moment, pressing the power button. Nothing. Only the ARGB from the RAM and the GPU was blinking, but not from any fan.
Both were deceived, but imagine the looks on my sons face..."Daddy...what's going on ?"

I have to say that I was aware when picking the RAM that it wasn't on Asrock's QVL, but I searched completed builds on PcPartPicker using the same motherboard and some people had used that RAM and also other RAM not on the QVL and all seemed fine.

What I have done so far :
- Reseated CPU (all fine)
- Checked all connections (all fine)
- Cleared CMOS
- Tried only one RAM stick on A1, then on B1 slot. Inverted them. 4 possible positions.

Still nothing posting. No fans turning, neither CPU, case, nor GPU fans. ARGB blinking on RAM and GPU.

Tried to isolate the issue...

1. Front Panel Connector : On page 14 of the manual (https://download.asrock.com/Manual/B550 Phantom Gaming-ITXax.pdf) it's number 11. The 8-pin combined cable that comes from the front panel was placed into the 8 pins, starting from the bottom. There's a single pin which is not being populated (top right). There are no 9 pins on the cable, just 8, so I assume that I placed it right.

2. CPU : All placed fine, fan connected to PWM header.

3. GPU : Also all well connected

4. Motherboard : There's a sticker saying P2.30. I have to assume that the BIOS version is correct, which means that I can use the 5600X out of the box. I nevertheless have read about cases where the real BIOS version did not coincide with the "sticker" one. I can't even get into BIOS to verify this.
NOTE : On the mobo box outside I can read : For California only, and I live in Spain. So I'm just wondering... Prior purchase I asked the seller if they could update the BIOS for me since I do not own a previous generation ryzen, but they told me that I shouldn't worry, since they get the motherboards always with updated BIOS...

5. SSD : The Lexar NM790 is a rather recent PCI 4.0 drive. Not sure if that is the issue. I did find a very recent article (24th of July 2023) on Asrock's website about limited support on M.2 SSD's for certain motherboards due to pin mismatch. Lexar SSD is mentioned, but fortunately not my motherboard (https://pg.asrock.com/support/qa/Limited Support SSD List.pdf). I have another PCI 4.0 M.2 in hand (WD SN850X) - maybe I could try that one out. Just wondering if can re-use the thermal strip that was provided for the Lexar.

6. DDR4 RAM : Since nothing is working I have to deduct that the culprit is the RAM in my particular case. I've spent the last 2 hours checking on Asrock's Vermeer DDR4 compatibility list (QVL) and I've come to the conclusion that half of the DDR4 listed there are not even sold anymore....
For even more irony on this, they add a part number and then sometimes a version number behind, for example (CMW16GX4M2Z3600C18 version 3.31). How am I supposed to find this in Amazon ? This is getting ridiculous. Furthermore, as per specification tab for the Vermeer it says that it supports down from DDR4 5100 (OC) , until 3600(OC) / 3466(OC) / 3200 / 2933 / 2667 / 2400 / 2133.... Does this mean that I can't even pick a 3600 Ghz DDR4 RAM unless it gets Overclocked ? I guess that the sweetspot is 3200 Ghz then...just assuming things here.
From the initial 32GB RAM I had planned, I think that I will need to step down to 16GB. Would someone please let me know if I'm ok to go with Corsair P/N CMW16GX4M2Z3600C18 , even though I don't know which version I'm buying ? Or if possible recommend a working RAM out of the box so that we can finally get this little devil to post ? I'm really starting to think that I should have gone for AM5, but for ITX, prices were too expensive imho.

Any hint is highly appreciated, and I do apologize for the long post, but I'm completely stuck right now.
Please also excuse my grammar mistakes since english is not my first language.

Cheers,
Ken

 

[tinyitx]

Systematic diagnosis is the way to go.

1. Front panel connector
I imagine the cables are pre-arranged in a bracket (as shown in the pic below) which is supposed for an easy insert into the mobo front panel pins.

I would remove the cables from that transparent housing and double check the pre-arrangement with the diagram in the manual (page 14)
Pay attention particularly to the Power Button (PWRBTN#)

2. BIOS
The sticker on the mobo BIOS chipset should be the installed version. And 2.30 does support Ryzen 5000 G-series CPU.

3. SSD
Should not be the cause of not booting up into the BIOS. Even without an SSD, you can still get into BIOS.

 

[ignsvn]

Usually, before I build inside the case, I'll try (build) the main components outside of the case just to be sure.

So that means PSU - motherboard - CPU - CPU cooler - RAM - GPU. This should be enough to display something to the monitor (usually like missing boot drive, since we're not attaching the drive yet). But that means at least the main components are OK.

 

[K3nshiro]

Systematic diagnosis is the way to go.

1. Front panel connector
I imagine the cables are pre-arranged in a bracket (as shown in the pic below) which is supposed for an easy insert into the mobo front panel pins.

I would remove the cables from that transparent housing and double check the pre-arrangement with the diagram in the manual (page 14)
Pay attention particularly to the Power Button (PWRBTN#)

Thanks, didn't think about that. Will remove that transparent housing and double check their pre-arranged position.

 

[K3nshiro]

Usually, before I build inside the case, I'll try (build) the main components outside of the case just to be sure.

So that means PSU - motherboard - CPU - CPU cooler - RAM - GPU. This should be enough to display something to the monitor (usually like missing boot drive, since we're not attaching the drive yet). But that means at least the main components are OK.

Will keep that in mind for the next time, that would have saved me some time. I just assumed that everyhing would work.

 

[K3nshiro]

Thanks for all your replies so far guys.

Regarding the DDR4 RAM do you think that the one that I posted above will work, even if I don't know if it is the version number as posted on the QVL ?

 

[ignsvn]

Thanks for all your replies so far guys.

Regarding the DDR4 RAM do you think that the one that I posted above will work, even if I don't know if it is the version number as posted on the QVL ?

This is an optimistic assessment, but these days I believe that QVL matters more only when you start overclocking the RAM.

IMO, if you're just using the RAM at it's default speed & as long as the motherboard support that speed, it should be fine.

 

[tinyitx]

I seldom consulted the mobo's QVL in all my years of building PCs. First, it is usually not updated much. Secondly, as you have discovered, many on the list are just hard-to-find or out-of-stock or EOL.

Using Pcpartspicker to check on other people's system is, inded, a smart way. Additionally, I would use memory manufacturer's Compatibility Check. Here is G.Skill's RAM Configurator for your motherboard. I think Corsair has its own version too, if you are a Corsair fan.

RAM Configurator - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.

Find compatible memory kits for your motherboard. Just select the motherboard from the dropdown list and click on Search for a list of compatible G.SKILL memory kits.

www.gskill.com

Further narrow the choices by choosing the capacity, speed and latency.

For RAM choosing, read this article, especially the last few paragraphs and the FAQ at the end.

Best RAM For Ryzen 5 5600X: RGB, Budget, & Gaming [2024]

We have gathered the 5 Best RAM For Ryzen 5 5600x processor based on the CL Latency, Speed, Timings and Performance.

tech4gamers.com

 

[BaK]

According to the CPU support list from Asrock, the Ryzen 5000 series should even be compatible with the P1.20 BIOS from 2020. So you should be ok with that.

ARGB blinking on RAM and GPU.

Then the Power Switch (2pin out of the 8 of the front panel header) should be correctly inserted. Others don't really matter now.
(You could even power on the motherboard by removing the cables and shorting the PWRBTN and the GND pin next to it with a screwdriver).

As @ignsvn said, connect the main/minimal components only first.

Page 7 of the motherboard manual, position 1, did you plug the 8pin (or 2x 4pin)connector from the PSU for the CPU 12V?

Page 7 of the motherboard manual, there is a speaker at position 16. Do you have one connected there?
If so you want it to beep one time only at startup for a confirmation that your hardware is fine.
Other kind of beeps should inform of the issue.
You can make a test with CPU/CPU cooler and 1 RAM stick only. And add the GPU next for a second test if you get a single beep on the first test.

Did you connect the 8pin connector from the PSU on the GPU?

Do you have a multimeter at hand to check the voltage outputs of the PSU?
Or another PSU to test your system with?

Good luck!

 

[K3nshiro]

I seldom consulted the mobo's QVL in all my years of building PCs. First, it is usually not updated much. Secondly, as you have discovered, many on the list are just hard-to-find or out-of-stock or EOL.

Using Pcpartspicker to check on other people's system is, inded, a smart way. Additionally, I would use memory manufacturer's Compatibility Check. Here is G.Skill's RAM Configurator for your motherboard. I think Corsair has its own version too, if you are a Corsair fan.



Further narrow the choices by choosing the capacity, speed and latency.

For RAM choosing, read this article, especially the last few paragraphs and the FAQ at the end.

Thanks, I've checked the links. I have been reading that GSkill and ASrock are not good friends, so in the end I went with a 16GB (2 x 8 GB) from Corsair, which should work, considering its release date (2018). If it doesn't then there's something wrong with the motherboard. Time is getting tight, only have 14 days for a RMA, I'm on day 8 now. I'll get the memories on Monday 31st, so I will be able to test it then.

@tinyitx I also checked the pre-arranged cabling in that transparent housing and all looks fine.
(Imgur link : )

Now, there's something I did NOT mention. When building it together, the PSU fell (whilst within NR200P's cage) from where hit hangs to the bottom of the case. It's an approximate height of 10 cm....not sure if that may have caused some internal damage ? The RGB lights are working.

Should I try to RMA it as well and get a 600-650 psu ? Which I think is overkill, as I believe that with 550W we have enough. This is just to rule out possible root causes. Unfortunately I do not have any other AM4 system at home so that I could double check components...

 

[K3nshiro]

According to the CPU support list from Asrock, the Ryzen 5000 series should even be compatible with the P1.20 BIOS from 2020. So you should be ok with that.


Then the Power Switch (2pin out of the 8 of the front panel header) should be correctly inserted. Others don't really matter now.
(You could even power on the motherboard by removing the cables and shorting the PWRBTN and the GND pin next to it with a screwdriver). Good, got that right then.

As @ignsvn said, connect the main/minimal components only first.

Page 7 of the motherboard manual, position 1, did you plug the 8pin (or 2x 4pin)connector from the PSU for the CPU 12V? Yes, see picture below.

Page 7 of the motherboard manual, there is a speaker at position 16. Do you have one connected there? No, don't have anything, wasn't provided on the NR200P. Will try to get one a computer shop or order it via Amazon (not sure if they sell these tiny thing...)
If so you want it to beep one time only at startup for a confirmation that your hardware is fine.
Other kind of beeps should inform of the issue.
You can make a test with CPU/CPU cooler and 1 RAM stick only. And add the GPU next for a second test if you get a single beep on the first test.

Did you connect the 8pin connector from the PSU on the GPU? No, the correct 6pin pci connector is plugged in.

Do you have a multimeter at hand to check the voltage outputs of the PSU? No, don't have it.
Or another PSU to test your system with? Didn't think about that, but I have a standard Seasonic Gold unit 650W, still in my old HTPC which I need to upgrade next. Will take it out this afternoon to see if the PSU is the culprit.

Good luck!

My previous message overlapped with yours. Let me add some answers (in blue) into your comments above.

8 pin CPU connection picture :

 

[BaK]

Page 7 of the motherboard manual, there is a speaker at position 16. Do you have one connected there?
No, don't have anything, wasn't provided on the NR200P. Will try to get one a computer shop or order it via Amazon (not sure if they sell these tiny thing...)

Did you connect the 8pin connector from the PSU on the GPU?
No, the correct 6pin pci connector is plugged in.

6pin?
Specs page says: 8pin*1
Gallery also:

I have a standard Seasonic Gold unit 650W, still in my old HTPC which I need to upgrade next. Will take it out this afternoon to see if the PSU is the culprit.

Did you have the opportunity to test how it goes with this other PSU?

 

[K3nshiro]

6pin?
Specs page says: 8pin*1
Gallery also:


Did you have the opportunity to test how it goes with this other PSU? YES ! I will provide an update in this thread now.

Hi Bak,
Yes sorry I meant 6-pin from PSU into 8-Pin GPU, all fine.

 

[K3nshiro]

UPDATE :

Sorry for the wait, took me a while to dissassemble the psu from the old HTPC and detach everything on the old and the new PC.
The Seasonic Gold unit is still working after 12 years... so, to cut it short :

- It didn't have a 8-pin connector to the GPU, so I couldn't test the GPU
- I only connected motherboard and CPU and everything was spinning, well only the CPU fan, since I did not connect the remaining case fans.
- What surprises me more is that the fans from the GPU also started to spin like crazy, as if it was a drone, ready to lift-off.
- PC didn't shut down or anything, I had to manually shut it down by pressing power button for 5 secs

With this I can assume that Thermaltake's PSU is faulty, or ? I already initiated the return.

I have 2 additional questions here:
1. I hope that once the GPU has its proper 8-pin connector, the fans don't spin like I epxerienced yesterday. How come that those fans were spinning without the 8-pin connector ? Is it because they get some juice from the pci-slot, which also enables the energy for the RGB lighting ? That GPU was advertised to not spin at lower loads, but this is unbearable. I really hope this is due to the fact that it had no 8-pin connector plugged in.

2. I need a power supply now. Will go for a 650W. The current only available option is a CoolerMaster 650W SFX unit. Corsair is far too expensive.
EVGA GM PSU's are out of stock. Seasonic and Fractal also have SFX's PSU's, but they are SFX-L, which does not allow me to add 2 exhaust fans on top of the case, so no SFX-L PSU's for me.
Does anything speak against the CoolerMaster ? (https://www.coolermaster.com/catalog/power-supplies/v-series/v650-sfx-gold/#overview)

Any hint is highly appreciated.

Cheers,
Ken

 

[tinyitx]

1. A PCIe slot typically supplies up to 75W. This could explains why the GPU fans and RGB work even without the 8-pin connector.

And, the GPU fans spinning at max speed is not a concern at this moment. It could be normal. For some mobos/GPUs, the fans would spin at max speed before the OS/GPU driver is loaded. It might last for a few seconds and is normal during bootup. Once the relevant software is loaded and controls the fans, speed will follow your custom curve settings.
At this stage of your build, I would not worry about this phenomena.

 

[BaK]

- I only connected motherboard and CPU and everything was spinning, well only the CPU fan, since I did not connect the remaining case fans.

That's promising!
Good for you if the issue comes from the PSU rather than the motherboard. I only had bad exp when I had to RMA some...

2. CoolerMaster 650W SFX
80+ Gold, modular, semi-passive and 10y warranty, looks good!

Cooler Master V650 SFX Gold 650W Power Supply Review

Check out our review of the Cooler Master V650 SFX Gold 650W Power Supply and see if this SFX sized power supply is just right for your system.

www.thefpsreview.com

Cooler Master V650 SFX Gold PSU Review

Have you ever heard the saying "Go Big or Go Home"? Ya..I know a bunch, right! As you may have noticed Small Form Factor (SFF) builds have been gaining more and

www.funkykit.com

And oh, if you end up ordering a little speaker, you could also go for a PSU tester

 

[K3nshiro]

The PSU was just picked-up by the freight forwarder. They're going to check it and will let me know if it can be repaired...(!!!).
I don't want a repaired PSU I want a new one that works when I connect it. I plugged in everything at least 5 times, nothing.
Then I took the good old 650W Seasonic Gold X Series and it posted immediately.

I'm now thinking : What if it wasn't posting because the wattage was too low ? Seller said that a minimum 550W power supply was needed and the wattage use in pcpartpicker was 329W (https://pcpartpicker.com/list/XHz2Q6). I really hope it is broken, because if not, I'm not looking forward to what they're going to say. They will insist that it's not faulty and that all is fine blablabla...and I already ordered a new one via Amazon yesterday.

However, since I want to upgrade my 12 year old HTPC (AM3 build), I will tell them that I want it replaced with another one, modular standard ATX.
I mean, the Seasonic is still working, it's 12 years old though and it worked flawlessly all this time, but it has only 6-pin for GPU, not 2 +6, and if I upgrade my graphics card as well, I won't be able to use it. I also read that PSU's are rated for a certain amount of cycles and if I'm going to build a new AM5 system, I want to be sure that I don't damage anything with the old, but still brilliant Seasonic PSU.

Sorry for getting off-topic myself here, but I just would like to know what you think.

Cheers,
Ken

 

[BaK]

What if it wasn't posting because the wattage was too low ?

No way IMHO, 550W is already a lot and the GPU was not stressed at all.

Aren't you in the time frame anymore for a refund of this Thermaltake PSU?


As the Seasonic PSU still works and is made out of top quality components from what I see, you could still keep it and upgrade to a 8pin GPU. There are indeed adapters available, 2x 6pin to 8pin or even 6pin to 8pin directly that could be handy.
I'm used to recycle my hardware, or buy 2nd hand, for somehow less demanding computers such as HTPCS to keep it cheap (see LiGHTPC in my sig).
But 12yo is a much decent age for a PSU and I understand you feel like it's time to change it.

 

[K3nshiro]

No way IMHO, 550W is already a lot and the GPU was not stressed at all.

Aren't you in the time frame anymore for a refund of this Thermaltake PSU?


As the Seasonic PSU still works and is made out of top quality components from what I see, you could still keep it and upgrade to a 8pin GPU. There are indeed adapters available, 2x 6pin to 8pin or even 6pin to 8pin directly that could be handy.
I'm used to recycle my hardware, or buy 2nd hand, for somehow less demanding computers such as HTPCS to keep it cheap (see LiGHTPC in my sig).
But 12yo is a much decent age for a PSU and I understand you feel like it's time to change it.

Sorry for not replying earlier, was kept busy this week.
Yeah, money was refunded for the Thermaltake PSU fortunately. I might give the Seasonic to someone, it is a fine PSU, but its cables were too thick, even as a modular PSU, time to move on

 

[K3nshiro]

UPDATE :

- Coolermaster PSU arrived, all is working fine now, thanks for all Your inputs guys !!!!

I have a couple of additional questions, they are more related to the finetuning of this build, but I'd appreciate what you think.

1. Additional fan clips for Thermalright Assassing King 120
I want to create a push-pull configuration, intaking fresh air from the rear, not exhausting. If you think exhaust is better, please let me know.
Now, the TR cooler only came with one fan and one single pair of fan clips, they look like this.
I asked TR if they have spare clips or if they sell them - all they could tell me is they're out of stock. I could find similar fan clips in AliExpress (see link), option A3 comes closest, as they're placed in the holes at the fan edge, the other option would be B3. Do you think they will hold a 120mm fan or should I just try to secure the fan with some zip-ties ?


2. The lights
For the ARGB lighting I got this : https://cougargaming.com/es/products/accessories/core-box-v3/
I have 2 options for switching lights : Either connecting the reset-pin from the Front Panel Header to the Box OR connect an included additional cable that has a button at the end, where you can click to switch - I just wonder how that would like with a loose cable hanging outside of the case. What would you do ? Looks more elegant and easier to me to add the reset pin from the Front Panel Header into the Box, but that means that I would need to remove the housing and detach the reset 2-pin cable from its pre-arranged "grouping"... hope that nothing goes wrong there.

3. Sound and headphones suggestion
@BaK : I followed your suggestion and got myself the buzzer you mentioned, but since all works, I won't use it now. I can only hear sound if I connect headphones at the moment. How do you guys do it for these tiny builds ? Do you connect something more sophisticated to those speaker pins or do you simply only connect your headphones or external amplifiers ?
Speaking of headphones : I prefer wired ones with two jacks for audio and input, I don't like the new trend with only one jack. Call me old-school, but I prefer these. Bluetooth phones only for work

To All : Would you be able to suggest a decent 2-jack headphone set that doesn't cost an eye, with good microphone and long enough cables (at least 1.2m) ? I'm already searching, but I'm all ears if you know something from the top of your head. I will get in any case one of those cable jack splitters as well.

Cheers and sorry again for writing so much...

Ken