Production Lazer3D LZ7 - Quiet Gaming Cube PC Case

[K888D]

Summary of Survey results:

SYSTEM CONFIGURATION

• 45% of those that filled in the survey are interested in buying a case, a further 38% of people may be swayed if the price is right or design changes are made
• Europe is the biggest market at 45% of people followed by the USA with 31%
• The majority of people would use the LZ7 as a Desktop Mini Gaming PC
• 72% of people would use a CPU with a TDP greater than 71W
• The vast majority of people would use high end or enthusiast grade GPUs
• 66% of people would use motherboard mounted storage and 52% of people would make use of double 2.5" drives
• Most people will use a modular PSU with a power rating above 451W
• The majority (76%) of people will run the system on Windows 10
• Wired Keyboards and Wireless Gamepads are the preferred methods of input
• Desktop and Gaming Monitors are the preferred displays of choice. Full HD TV's are more popular than 4K TV's
• Stereo Headsets is the preferred audio output followed by desktop stereo speakers
• 72.4% of people feel that a quiet system is very important
• Most people prefer a cool and quiet running system than a maxed out performance system

CASE CONFIGURATION

• Black Matte is the most popular colour for the Main panels followed by White Matte with a combined 73.3%
• Black Matte is the most popular colour for the 3D printed parts with 50%, followed by White Matte and Red Polished
• Smoked side panels are the most popular with 64%
• The majority of people would prefer Black screws
• A complete cutout for the side fan is preferred with a 50% share closely followed by a slotted vent configuration with 40%
• The general consensus is that USB 3.0 are important for the front I/O
• The Audio ports importance are of a mixed opinion weighted towards not very important
• The reset button is heavily weighted towards not being very important
• 70% of people would prefer to keep the current design and compatibility

PRICING OPTIONS

• 43% of people are OK with the price point, 37% of people feel it is too expensive, and 20% of people would like fewer features to reduce the price
• Most people would prefer to keep the front I/O features rather than save £10 without it, a 60/40 split
• 80% of people would prefer the case is supplied flat packed as a kit, also shaving around £4 off the price
• 63% of people prefer hex bolts instead of more expensive countersunk screws
• Most people feel that the rubber feet should be included by default with 73% of the vote
• 60% of people would prefer the metal filter to be included by default

 

[MarcParis]

Nice stats! Most people want gaming computer..

Otherwise I've checked temperature of my 950 pro in my NFC S4 mini, in vertical stand.
After OS boot : 48°C (room @20°C)
After checking Evil with in (60Go) + Pillars of eternity (19go) folder in steam : 59°C
After benchmark in magician : 62°C
After 5 min cooling down : 57°C

So passive cooling is effective in S4 Mini, in vertical stand, at least..

 

[GuilleAcoustic]

No wonder I can't find any suitable case, I'm the narrow dark blue slice almost each time .

Cool and quiet workstation, no front io, no front USB, no reset, sub 40w tdp CPU, etc.

 

[iFreilicht]

The majority of people would use the LZ7 as a Desktop Mini Gaming PC

I marked that option as well because I'm spending a little more time gaming than working, but it would definitely be used as a workstation as well.

Also I think i misread the CPU TDP question for total TDP, I'd not be using a 100W+ but a 45W-65W CPU. Sorry!

 

[K888D]

The Survey Results and summary are complete, they are displayed in posts #258, #259, #260 and #261.

Thank you to all who participated, as I mentioned before the SURVEY is still open for any straddlers, you can also register interest in a prototype at the end of the form. The data collected will be used to tweak the design, decide what the main configuration will be and which extra options will be made available when the final version goes on sale.

Hopefully this information may also prove useful for anybody else who is developing their own case to be sold.

My next focus will now move onto arranging a short run of the LZ7 prototype v0.2. So far there are around 10 - 12 people interested, I will be sending out some emails over the next week to get the ball rolling on this.

 

[onVacation]

I just found your project while looking for different ITX, gaming capable cases and I have to say, I love the design so far.

I was originally going to wait for the DAN A4 to be available, but since Daniel said that it's going to cost even more than on Kickstarter (which is completely fine) I'm not too sure.

However there are two reasons I want to make the switch to ITX (I'm using a Fractal R5 right now): 1) It doesnt take up as much as space and looks better and 2) (and this is the important one) I will need to transport my PC in the future, maybe like 6-8, but most likely under 10 times a year.
For this purpos I would put my PC inside a Peli-style case with internal dimensions of 500x355x200mm. Empty space will be filled with plastic foam.

Do you think the LZ7 would be able to withstand that or is the risk to high? I saw the picture of you daughter stepping on it, so it seems to be sturdy enough overall, but I'm still skeptical since I've never seen (or owned) a case made of Acrylic.


And the second question:

I'm sorry if I overlooked the final decision on this, but reading the thread, I remember that there was the idea of drilling holes in the bottom panel for those who may want to use something different than stick-on rubber feet. Has this idea been discarded? If so, would it still be possible to get these holes (for a small fee, maybe)? I would most likely use LianLi screw on feet, but unfortunately I don't have the tools (and the knowledge) necessary to drill holes into Acrylic and since you mentioned in the e-mail you sent out that countersunk holes and screws would be possible if wanted, I hope that pre-drilled holes for different feet are also possible.

 

[K888D]

Welcome to the forum and thank you for the feedback.

I will need to transport my PC in the future, maybe like 6-8, but most likely under 10 times a year.
For this purpos I would put my PC inside a Peli-style case with internal dimensions of 500x355x200mm. Empty space will be filled with plastic foam.

Do you think the LZ7 would be able to withstand that or is the risk to high? I saw the picture of you daughter stepping on it, so it seems to be sturdy enough overall, but I'm still skeptical since I've never seen (or owned) a case made of Acrylic.

It's a tough question to answer really, I guess it depends on how much abuse it will receive whilst it is being transported!

If you are going to transport it in a Peli-style case with appropriate padding, then I don't see why it would not last unlimited transportation.

The case is strong, but not as robust as a metal case would be. If you drop the Acrylic case then it will break, if you whack it with something hard like a hammer then the panels will crack, but if you put a large weight on top of the case it will withstand the force no problem. The case design is strong, but Acrylic is a bit brittle meaning it doesn't like point impact or being bent.

A Peli-style case should protect the LZ7 from impact, so I don't see it being a problem, but I can't make any guarantees as its a difficult thing to test when you have a limited budget!

I remember that there was the idea of drilling holes in the bottom panel for those who may want to use something different than stick-on rubber feet. Has this idea been discarded? If so, would it still be possible to get these holes (for a small fee, maybe)? I would most likely use LianLi screw on feet, but unfortunately I don't have the tools (and the knowledge) necessary to drill holes into Acrylic and since you mentioned in the e-mail you sent out that countersunk holes and screws would be possible if wanted, I hope that pre-drilled holes for different feet are also possible.

Yes this would be something I would like to add to the case as a default feature.

I've not had chance to properly look into what is available in terms of 'screw on' feet. I assume that all is required are 4 holes, 1 in each corner, and the screw passes through the case panel and screws into the foot? Or are you talking about thread forming the holes in the case panel?

If a simple straight through hole is all that is required, do you know what size diameter hole would be sufficient to cover most off the shelf screw on feet?

 

[onVacation]

I've not had chance to properly look into what is available in terms of 'screw on' feet. I assume that all is required are 4 holes, 1 in each corner, and the screw passes through the case panel and screws into the foot? Or are you talking about thread forming the holes in the case panel?

If a simple straight through hole is all that is required, do you know what size diameter hole would be sufficient to cover most off the shelf screw on feet?

Yes, all that would be required is a simple hole, no threads or anything. Most aftermarket feet (like the LianLi ones) use simple nuts and bolts and just have a hole themselves.
I couldn't find the exact spedifications for the screws that LianLi provides, but in fact, this doesn't even matter as you can use pretty much every screw that fits.

From looking at the pictures I would guess that they use M3 bolts and nuts, but they seem rather small (correct me if I'm wrong), so I would most likely use M4 screws, which would require a hole of 4.5mm in the bottom panel. I don't really know anything about other brands, though.


EDIT: One more question (since I never built an SFF PC before): Will I be able to cool a Xeon 1231v3 in there? It has a TDP of 85W and I'm planning to use the Cryorig C7. Is it possible? Switching to a Skylake i7(/i5) would cost a lot since I would not not only need a new mainboard and PSU, but also a new CPU as well as new RAM. So basically a completely new system.

 

[iFreilicht]

From looking at the pictures I would guess that they use M3 bolts and nuts, but they seem rather small (correct me if I'm wrong), so I would most likely use M4 screws, which would require a hole of 4.5mm in the bottom panel. I don't really know anything about other brands, though.

It would make sense to provide M3 holes only, though. Most feet I've seen so far were using M3 bolts and if you really want M4, you can always drill them out a little bit.

Alternatively have two sets of holes, but that seems a bit excessive when most people will use the included stick-on feet anyway.

 

[onVacation]

It would make sense to provide M3 holes only, though. Most feet I've seen so far were using M3 bolts and if you really want M4, you can always drill them out a little bit.

Alright, that makes sense. As I said, I don't know a lot about this and I saw people complaining about the LianLi's screws being too small, so I thought M4 might be a better idea, but if M3 is the standard that's probably, because it works just fine.

So, M3 (~3.5mm) would be ideal then.

 

[MarcParis]

EDIT: One more question (since I never built an SFF PC before): Will I be able to cool a Xeon 1231v3 in there? It has a TDP of 85W and I'm planning to use the Cryorig C7. Is it possible? Switching to a Skylake i7(/i5) would cost a lot since I would not not only need a new mainboard and PSU, but also a new CPU as well as new RAM. So basically a completely new system.

As you will have 60-65mm cpu cooler clearance, you can go for thermalright AXP 100 muscle...this could handle all socket 115X cpu easily and quietly

 

[K888D]

As you will have 60-65mm cpu cooler clearance, you can go for thermalright AXP 100 muscle...this could handle all socket 115X cpu easily and quietly

I think I need a bit of help on this subject as to what I can safely specify as the CPU cooler clearance height.

The case is 155mm tall, 10mm of this is taken up by top and bottom 5mm thick panels. There is then the 6mm motherboard standoffs, the thickness of the motherboard itself (1.6mm), the height of the SFX PSU (63.5mm) and a 1mm gap above the PSU to the top of the case.

This leaves a maximum distance from the top side of the motherboard to the underside of the PSU of 72.9mm.

BUT, there is also the height of the CPU socket to consider which is different depending on which socket type you choose. You will also need at least a 5mm gap for the CPU fan to breath.

With the above assumptions I would currently say that 60mm is a safe number to specify for maximum CPU clearance.

EDIT: One more question (since I never built an SFF PC before): Will I be able to cool a Xeon 1231v3 in there? It has a TDP of 85W and I'm planning to use the Cryorig C7. Is it possible? Switching to a Skylake i7(/i5) would cost a lot since I would not not only need a new mainboard and PSU, but also a new CPU as well as new RAM. So basically a completely new system.

Taking 60mm as your maximum clearance there are a few options to choose from which will provide sufficient cooling for an 85W CPU. When the side fan is configured as an intake it is blowing cool air directly into the CPU fan, this significantly helps with CPU cooling as well.

I'm using a Noctua NH-L9i to cool an i5-6500 (65W), the cooler can keep the CPU under 68C with the fan spinning under 1700rpm when the whole system is being fully stressed, meaning there is plenty of cooling headroom left. Bare in mind this is a very low profile cooler and taller more powerful CPU coolers are available under 60mm height which will give even better cooling, such as:

Zalman CNPS8900, its 60mm tall, Zalman claim it can cool 130W CPU's, it also features a 110mm fan:

​

The Thermalright AXP-100 is 58mm tall, its got very good feedback in reviews, however I've built one into a system and I was disappointed with its idle noise as it was slightly audible at low RPM, it was for a HTPC where silent while idle is essential. If this is an important factor for you then the Silverstone AR-06 is quieter while idle:

The Silverstone AR-06 is 58mm tall, rated for 95W CPU's and performs very well from my experience:

There is the Gelid SlimHero with a 120mm fan at 59mm tall, it seems to have good reviews but it doesn't fit all motherboards:

​

The Scythe Big Shuriken 2, its 58mm with a 120mm and rated for LGA2011 CPU's, I've heard good things about Scythe, but I've got no personal experience with this cooler:

It would make sense to provide M3 holes only, though. Most feet I've seen so far were using M3 bolts and if you really want M4, you can always drill them out a little bit.

That makes sense, I will put 4x M3 clearance holes in the bottom panel for anyone who would like to add their own screw on feet.

 

[MarcParis]

K888d, with 60mm cpu cooler clearance you have enough room to cool cpu.

Now, some trials should be done to know what is the best compromise : lower cpu cooler with better airflow or taller cpu cooler with less airlfow..

From start, I'll give its chance to id cooling id vc 45.. vapor chamber design that is working quite well in nfc s4 mini on a core i7 6700k (slightly undervolted)

There is also a very competitor with prolimatech samuel 17, 47mm without fan.

 

[onVacation]

Now, some trials should be done to know what is the best compromise : lower cpu cooler with better airflow or taller cpu cooler with less airlfow..

That's what I was thinking. 5mm seems to a very small gap, considering that the PSU is not like a vented side panel, but a solid object.

Although this might work, because the case fan also directly cools the CPU, I'm not really sure. That's why I thought the Cryorig C7 is a good choice as it seems to be one of the best super low profile coolers.

Is it possible for you to get your hands on a CPU cooler close to 60mm in order to test how much cooling performance you gain?

 

[K888D]

The PSU only covers half of the CPU cooler (depending on socket location, could be more, could be less).

Below is a screenshot from above of another LZ case based on same PSU position:

But yes 5mm is not very much clearance and will limit the full potential of the cooler, as @MarcParis has pointed out, it will be interesting to see which type of cooler performs better, a low profile cooler with 30mm clearance, or a 60mm tall cooler with 5mm clearance. the side fan being right next to the CPU cooler does help with this configuration because it forces cool external air into the gap and into the CPU cooler path.

The Cryorig C7 should in theory be a very good choice, its only 47mm tall so you should have around 17mm clearance, but it also has 4 side intakes surrounding the fan which allow extra air into the cooler in restricted height spaces:

Unfortunately the C7 cooler isn't available in the UK, but I will try and get another cooler around 58 - 60mm in height to test out and compare with the Noctua NH-L9i.

 

[MarcParis]

@K888D i appreciate your case picture based on fury X version...

For socket-cpu height, consider 8mm for intel cpu. We had such kind of discussion on nfc s4 mini to know the maximum height of cpu cooler..
That leaves 64mm approx of clearance in total.

I have the feeling that 47mm height is the best (cryorig c7 or intel stock..).
For 65w or below : noctua nh l9i/a or zalman cnps 2x
For 95-91w : id cooling id-vc45 or cryorig c7

I'm far from convinced that taller cpu cooler will work better..

 

[Samsquamptch]

Do you plan to try a steel/aluminum production run in the future?

 

[XeaLouS]

In terms of coolers, my case (which has a similar layout to this one) easily cools a 1231v3 using a Gelid slim hero. With pancake/C-type style coolers, an idea would be to flip the fan so that the PSU and CPU fans don't fight each other.

In my case with a gelid slimhero and a noctua 120mm fan running at 500rpm(inaudible - the psu fan is louder) my temps don't exceed 50°.

I'd assume that since our layouts for cooling are very similar, a 60mm class cooler with fan blowing upwards + the 140mm intake should be sufficient for cooling 85w TDP at low rpms.

 

[K888D]

Do you plan to try a steel/aluminum production run in the future?

At this moment in time, there is no plan to look at metal panels, I'm not saying its out of the question though.

But if you are meaning to design the entire chassis from metal, then that would basically mean starting the design from scratch as its a completely different type of manufacturing. But the end result would be 0.5 litres smaller as metal sheets can be thinner than Acrylic.

In terms of coolers, my case (which has a similar layout to this one) easily cools a 1231v3 using a Gelid slim hero. With pancake/C-type style coolers, an idea would be to flip the fan so that the PSU and CPU fans don't fight each other.

In my case with a gelid slimhero and a noctua 120mm fan running at 500rpm(inaudible - the psu fan is louder) my temps don't exceed 50°.

I'd assume that since our layouts for cooling are very similar, a 60mm class cooler with fan blowing upwards + the 140mm intake should be sufficient for cooling 85w TDP at low rpms.

That is an interesting idea and perhaps something I could try out if I can get my hands on some suitable parts.

There is a vent on top of the case, the intention is for the PSU fan to face upwards and intake through this vent and exhaust out the rear.

But, if you were clever with your component choice and picked for instance the Corsair SF450 which can run fanless up to around 180 - 200 watt load, you could build a pretty powerful gaming PC and your PSU would remain silent.

Now, you could actually reverse the PSU with the fan pointing downwards towards the CPU, with the SF450 remaining fanless, the CPU would in theory draw some external air through the rear of the PSU itself cooling both the PSU and the CPU with fresh external air on top of the air provided by the 140mm side fan. That theory would also be something I would like to test out, perhaps I'll get something set up soon.

EDIT
Actually thinking about it, the positive pressure from the 140mm fan would probably fight against the CPU fan trying to draw external air in, the net result would be air exhausting through the PSU as the 140mm fan will likely be stronger than the CPU cooler fan, exhausting through the PSU isn't necessarily a bad thing.

EDIT 2
More thinking - Perhaps reversing the 140mm fan so that it exhausts and creates a negative case pressure would work in this reversed PSU setup. The negative pressure would pull air in through the PSU and down onto the CPU.

My thermal testing previously showed that using the side fan as an exhaust lowered the GPU temps as the negative pressure was assisting the GPU fan, but the downside to this setup was that the warm GPU exhaust air was then drawn across the motherboard and increased the CPU and system temps. But if the CPU can breath some cool air through the PSU then perhaps this effect will be reduced.

Basically there are many different cooling setups you could try in the LZ7, I'm sure you could put some really powerful stuff inside this case, its just finding the right balance of how to cool it quietly.

 

[MarcParis]

Ahah @K888D , what you notice is exactly the same airflow that I've experienced on sugo sg07 with intake or exhaust 180mm top fan..
By simply putting 180mm in exhaust mode instead of default intake results in gpu temp decrease by 10°c...it's making me remind also how cumbersome it was to put big c type cpu cooler on mini itx mb.. That's why i prefer nh -d9l or smaller rad that remain on cpu socket size or liquid cooling..

It's still difficult for me to come back on air cooling when I was 100% custom watercooled..