Ooof, don't really want to (like to) share my PC hobby on my main account so much....guess I have to sit out on this giveaway chance.....
Ooof, don't really want to (like to) share my PC hobby on my main account so much....guess I have to sit out on this giveaway chance.....
Hi Alex,
In the end did you manage to get hold of and test a Corsair H60 in Mjolnir?
The specs say it's 2 mm too long, 157mm instead of your stated 155mm max.
I'm about to get a new cooler for my current case and want to make sure it's compatible with my NEW CASE which should arrive in May
I hope we can see some testing on that configuration soon, cause as of now I’m concerned after optimumtechs review...
His graph shows that gpu thermals are 8 degrees (!!) hotter than similar (cheaper) sandwich style cases, like the ghost and dan case. 65 vs 73 degrees. it’s closer to phanteks evolve shift, which has notoriously bad gpu thermals.
According to OT, gpu thermals can be improved a bit in standard orientation, but this sacrifices cpu cooling.
hopefully this layout is more efficient and we can see better results, but otherwise this isn’t the right case for higher end gaming with 2080+ when you could go Dan or Ghost for much better thermal..
Every case isn't perfect, there are trade offs you might have to live with. You need to figure out what's the most important thing, synthetic benchmarks which can't predict YOUR SPECIFIC use case or something balanced which isn't perfect but perfect enough for how your going to use it.
Sure, totally, I agree there are trade offs for every case. That said, I personally think the performance gap is flat out too large given the price of this case. Sure if it was a smaller thermal gap, fine, but almost a 10 degree difference than similar cheaper cases? If someone’s willing to spend $300-400+ on a pc case, I’d imagine they’re more likely to buy higher end components, like 9700k/2080/ti configurations. You can’t effectively cool these components compared to other cases in the category.
In my personal opinion, Some minor changes (increased holes) could be made before release to improve thermals and close the gap. Maybe won’t be perfect, but at least not unusable for people who want top of the line/hotter components
Seems this is almost more a problem of giving too many options than it is a real problem. At least in the way you've framed it. Ali explains in the video the temperature delta is largely due to the GPU being upside down and exhausting towards the bottom of the case. Dan Case and Ghost show better thermals because they can't be put in that orientation. The proof of this is the 68 degree reading when in standard orientation. The obvious solution is not to use the optional flipped orientation and put the case in standard if your priority is GPU thermals. (Which for gamers and probably most people it will be. Which I imagine is why it's "standard".)
So in theory a side panel redesign can give a benefit of between 1-3 degrees. (68 standard vs. 65 open bench) The question is now... is 1-3 degrees worth a panel redesign? I personally lean towards no, because I value the aesthetics over ~4.5% greater thermal performance, but I'd be open to a small change if it made the full 3 degree difference. On the other hand. Ali had both of the fans as exhaust on the bottom. The mobo fan blowing cool air up and over the GPU could already be what makes that 3 degree difference!
Between the Tempered Glass, O2 panels, flipped orientation, and now flipped PSU this case actually has too many combinations for it's own good! Finding the optimal thermal configuration has become a bit of a Gordian Knot.
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I will be using the window panels and upside-down configuration, which is supposed to be the worst for an open-air GPU. Still, I am not really concerned about thermals. GPUs can easily run at 85°C without a problem.
AlexTzone
I design minimalistic – but not boring – PC stuff
Original poster
THOR ZONE
Silver Supporter
GPU thermals in Ali’s case are mostly affected by the way the core is orientated, not where the dust filter is placed (only minor change). So flip it the way it works best for your use case
If you use performance panels you won’t even see the difference ?
If you use performance panels you won’t even see the difference ?
AlexTzone
I design minimalistic – but not boring – PC stuff
Original poster
THOR ZONE
Silver Supporter
MJOLNIR + Tundra TD02-SLIM = NOPE!
I don't think this requires a very detailed document as the results were very clear, the Tundra is not worth it compared to Corsair H55 + 120mm fan under the motherboard. Quick comparison with i7 8700 at 107W in Prime95 Small FFTs (30 min):
SilverStone Tundra TD02-Slim (240 mm AIO)
- 2 x (120x25) mm fan / Testbench: 57°C
- 1 x (120x25) mm fan / Testbench: 61°C
- 1 x (120x25) mm fan / MJOLNIR Core: 63°C
*120x25 fan: Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM
Corsair H55 (120 mm AIO) + 120x15 mm fan (motherboard)
- 1 x (120x25) mm fan / Testbench: 60°C
- 1 x (120x25) mm fan / MJOLNIR Core: 61°C
- VRMs: 22°C COOLER than with SilverStone Tundra TD02-Slim
*120x25 fan: Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM
*120x15 fan: Noctua NF-A12x15 PWM
On average the Tundra with one fan was performing 2°C worse than the H55, but with a LOT hotter VRMs. What's the point of having a good freezer when your house is burning. I strongly recommend a good 120 mm AIO and a fan under the motherboard.
Speaking of something much better, just redesigned the panels. Now they will be a lot easier to use and still be super sturdy ? They latch on from the outside. The case will appear exactly the same as before but there will be no RGB leakage around the panel gaps, I remember this was something @wolfatpno was worried about. From a production point of view, this will be a smoother experience as well!
We also improved the case feet, adding greater stability and removing "wobbliness". Quite simply, they are flat now. Previous use of radius (rounded from all sides) was very hard to get even, despite tight tolerances.
Let me know what you think guys
Out of curiosity how tall are the case feet? It's another example of a form vs. function trade-off as with the panel vents. The lower the case is to a desk surface the better it looks, but the harder (and possibly noisier) it is for fans to pull in air. My personal feeling here is having the gap the same height as the thickness of the case would be visually pleasing and probably sufficiently roomy. Maybe the feet are already this height? (5mm)
I worry slightly about the new magnetic panels being less stable than 4 screws, but eliminating lightbleed is a pretty great perk. If it's cheap I think I would feel better about them with a magnet on each side.
So the 240 AIO is, as was predicted, a disaster and no one should do it under any circumstance. Absolutely not surprised there. As a result though I think you should eliminate compatibility for it completely. It's not a situational option; It's a BAD option and given the ability to choose poorly, people always will and then complain about it. An even greater reason to do so though... I saw comments regarding Ali's review video on Reddit and Youtube about the evident wear and tear on the PCIe riser cable as a result of sliding it in and out repeatedly. Maybe he could've been more careful, but most of the community trusts that Ali puts in atleast above average effort into building SFFPCs and furthermore there's no longer a reason for the riser to be that close. IIRC, an early revision of the Mjolnir had the mobo lower in the case and it was raised for the purpose of adding 240mm compatibility. Now that we've established using a 240mm AIO is definitively a bad idea the mobo can be lowered to its original position giving a couple mm's of leeway back to the riser cable. (If the raised mobo improves compatibility for particularly long 120mm AIOs maybe it's still worth keeping.)
I worry slightly about the new magnetic panels being less stable than 4 screws, but eliminating lightbleed is a pretty great perk. If it's cheap I think I would feel better about them with a magnet on each side.
So the 240 AIO is, as was predicted, a disaster and no one should do it under any circumstance. Absolutely not surprised there. As a result though I think you should eliminate compatibility for it completely. It's not a situational option; It's a BAD option and given the ability to choose poorly, people always will and then complain about it. An even greater reason to do so though... I saw comments regarding Ali's review video on Reddit and Youtube about the evident wear and tear on the PCIe riser cable as a result of sliding it in and out repeatedly. Maybe he could've been more careful, but most of the community trusts that Ali puts in atleast above average effort into building SFFPCs and furthermore there's no longer a reason for the riser to be that close. IIRC, an early revision of the Mjolnir had the mobo lower in the case and it was raised for the purpose of adding 240mm compatibility. Now that we've established using a 240mm AIO is definitively a bad idea the mobo can be lowered to its original position giving a couple mm's of leeway back to the riser cable. (If the raised mobo improves compatibility for particularly long 120mm AIOs maybe it's still worth keeping.)
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MJOLNIR + Tundra TD02-SLIM = NOPE!
I don't think this requires a very detailed document as the results were very clear, the Tundra is not worth it compared to Corsair H55 + 120mm fan under the motherboard. Quick comparison with i7 8700 at 107W in Prime95 Small FFTs (30 min):
SilverStone Tundra TD02-Slim (240 mm AIO)
- 2 x (120x25) mm fan / Testbench: 57°C
- 1 x (120x25) mm fan / Testbench: 61°C
- 1 x (120x25) mm fan / MJOLNIR Core: 63°C
*120x25 fan: Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM
Corsair H55 (120 mm AIO) + 120x15 mm fan (motherboard)
- 1 x (120x25) mm fan / Testbench: 60°C
- 1 x (120x25) mm fan / MJOLNIR Core: 61°C
- VRMs: 22°C COOLER than with SilverStone Tundra TD02-Slim
*120x25 fan: Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM*120x15 fan: Noctua NF-A12x15 PWM
On average the Tundra with one fan was performing 2°C worse than the H55, but with a LOT hotter VRMs. What's the point of having a good freezer when your house is burning. I strongly recommend a good 120 mm AIO and a fan under the motherboard.
Speaking of something much better, just redesigned the panels. Now they will be a lot easier to use and still be super sturdy ? They latch on from the outside. The case will appear exactly the same as before but there will be no RGB leakage around the panel gaps, I remember this was something @wolfatpno was worried about. From a production point of view, this will be a smoother experience as well!
We also improved the case feet, adding greater stability and removing "wobbliness". Quite simply, they are flat now. Previous use of radius (rounded from all sides) was very hard to get even, despite tight tolerances.
Let me know what you think guys
Looks cool, I assume while now in theory you could change the panels while the core is inserted, the idea is still to remove the core, and pop them out from the inside right? I assume the tolerances of the panels will be such that trying to pry the panel out with nails are going to end with broken nails
I'm completely happy with the flat feet
Agree with @thekinghippo, scrap the 240mm AIO compatibility, it is just not reasonable to further promote it.
Also, I think magnetic panels are generally a nice thing, but I am a bit concerned about stability. Since the case is only press-fitted (there is not a single screw holding the case together), the screwed-in side panels gave me some piece of mind about stability.
Another concern is pressure towards the side panels from internal components. What if the AIO tube sticks out a bit and exercises pressure against the panels? I think it could fall off.
Also, I think magnetic panels are generally a nice thing, but I am a bit concerned about stability. Since the case is only press-fitted (there is not a single screw holding the case together), the screwed-in side panels gave me some piece of mind about stability.
Another concern is pressure towards the side panels from internal components. What if the AIO tube sticks out a bit and exercises pressure against the panels? I think it could fall off.
In addition to everybody in January who were voicing their concerns against including the 240 mm AIO compatibility, I agree with @keepcoding and @thekinghippo about removing the support all together in favor to gain some tolerance with the GPU riser cable. Leaving enough space still for the 15 mm fan, obviously.
I guess if you had cables/tubing protruding out enough to cause issues, then you wouldn't be able to slide it into the core in the first place. The ability to seal the panels from the outside after inserting the core actually gives the builder an opportunity to somewhat improve the cable management with the core inserted into the chassis which wasn't possible before. So I think its a fair trade
Copy pasted from Kickstarter:
I guess if you had cables/tubing protruding out enough to cause issues, then you wouldn't be able to slide it into the core in the first place. The ability to seal the panels from the outside after inserting the core actually gives the builder an opportunity to somewhat improve the cable management with the core inserted into the chassis which wasn't possible before. So I think its a fair trade
Magnetic panels are perfect!
Being able to remove the side(s) during an intensive session would do wonders for the thermals. Especially with the glass panels. Well done!
Also, I like that the feet are flat. Makes for a perfect surface for a user to mount a rubber feet strip or even silicone feet to. Perhaps even aluminum feet.
Being able to remove the side(s) during an intensive session would do wonders for the thermals. Especially with the glass panels. Well done!
Also, I like that the feet are flat. Makes for a perfect surface for a user to mount a rubber feet strip or even silicone feet to. Perhaps even aluminum feet.
MJOLNIR + Tundra TD02-SLIM = NOPE!
I don't think this requires a very detailed document as the results were very clear, the Tundra is not worth it compared to Corsair H55 + 120mm fan under the motherboard. Quick comparison with i7 8700 at 107W in Prime95 Small FFTs (30 min):
SilverStone Tundra TD02-Slim (240 mm AIO)
- 2 x (120x25) mm fan / Testbench: 57°C
- 1 x (120x25) mm fan / Testbench: 61°C
- 1 x (120x25) mm fan / MJOLNIR Core: 63°C
*120x25 fan: Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM
Corsair H55 (120 mm AIO) + 120x15 mm fan (motherboard)
- 1 x (120x25) mm fan / Testbench: 60°C
- 1 x (120x25) mm fan / MJOLNIR Core: 61°C
- VRMs: 22°C COOLER than with SilverStone Tundra TD02-Slim
*120x25 fan: Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM*120x15 fan: Noctua NF-A12x15 PWM
On average the Tundra with one fan was performing 2°C worse than the H55, but with a LOT hotter VRMs. What's the point of having a good freezer when your house is burning. I strongly recommend a good 120 mm AIO and a fan under the motherboard.
Speaking of something much better, just redesigned the panels. Now they will be a lot easier to use and still be super sturdy ? They latch on from the outside. The case will appear exactly the same as before but there will be no RGB leakage around the panel gaps, I remember this was something @wolfatpno was worried about. From a production point of view, this will be a smoother experience as well!
We also improved the case feet, adding greater stability and removing "wobbliness". Quite simply, they are flat now. Previous use of radius (rounded from all sides) was very hard to get even, despite tight tolerances.
Let me know what you think guys
Thank you for checking. It was an expected result but a necessary test.
It's a new more stable panel! It's lovely.
The strength of the magnet is very strong, but the reason why people are worried is also compelling.
Is it too expensive to process magnets and bolt holes at the same time?
There is a plan to add a bolt piece to the top and bottom. (or next to a magnet)
Those who want a more stable fix can even tighten the bolts.
Anyone who wants to be free will only need to use a magnet.
There is another problem to consider about magnets.
It will need a buffer.
There are two alternatives.
1. Rubber square O-ring
2. Silicon Dampers
Cracks can be caused by impact when a magnet meets.
This should be prevented.
I think we should think about whether the processing cost is not too expensive.
+
I like the new Feet.
It will be more stable than before.
Everyone will be aware of the following facts.
The "ITX system" is only small in size and very heavy when completed.
Other sandwich-type cases use sticker-type feet.
If you slide it slightly and change its position, the feet will fall off easily.
BTW
I had some ideas about Mjolnir's stand.
It is a way to finish with a design without a Feet and use a stand.
It's imagined in terms of Bertical mode, so just listen to it as a joke.
Basically, it's used as a buffer for packaging Mjolnir, and when you open the package and you finish the system, the buffers on the front and the back are combined to form a stand.
There are three modes in total.
1. Buffer mode (packaging- cover the front panel and backpanel with separation)
2. Stand mode - Support the lower part of the front panel and the backpanel separately.
3. Bertical Mode - The two buffers can be combined to serve as the Vertical Stand.
It's made of rubber.
You can add options or sell them separately later.
I am thinking about design now, but I want to be as minimal as possible.
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Thank you for checking. It was an expected result but a necessary test.
It's a new more stable panel! It's lovely.
The strength of the magnet is very strong, but the reason why people are worried is also compelling.
Is it too expensive to process magnets and bolt holes at the same time?
There is a plan to add a bolt piece to the top and bottom. (or next to a magnet)
Those who want a more stable fix can even tighten the bolts.
Anyone who wants to be free will only need to use a magnet.
There is another problem to consider about magnets.
It will need a buffer.
There are two alternatives.
1. Rubber square O-ring
2. Silicon Dampers
Cracks can be caused by impact when a magnet meets.
This should be prevented.
I think we should think about whether the processing cost is not too expensive.
+
I like the new Feet.
It will be more stable than before.
Everyone will be aware of the following facts.
The "ITX system" is only small in size and very heavy when completed.
Other sandwich-type cases use sticker-type feet.
If you slide it slightly and change its position, the feet will fall off easily.
BTW
I had some ideas about Mjolnir's stand.
It is a way to finish with a design without a Feet and use a stand.
It's imagined in terms of Bertical mode, so just listen to it as a joke.
Basically, it's used as a buffer for packaging Mjolnir, and when you open the package and you finish the system, the buffers on the front and the back are combined to form a stand.
There are three modes in total.
1. Buffer mode (packaging- cover the front panel and backpanel with separation)
2. Stand mode - Support the lower part of the front panel and the backpanel separately.
3. Bertical Mode - The two buffers can be combined to serve as the Vertical Stand.
It's made of rubber.
You can add options or sell them separately later.
I am thinking about design now, but I want to be as minimal as possible.
Maybe the two magnets don't need to meet. A small gap of 0.3mm or so should prevent cracks.
I think the magnets need to be slightly recessed anyway to guarantee a flush transition from the panel to the rest of the case.
