Hello from Lookout Mountain, Alabama

Greetings All. I‘m here doing research for a build for a Streacom DB4. I’ve built about 6 desktop computers over the years, mostly designed for running AutoCad and 3D software, so components were fairly top end. About five years ago I became fascinated with the SFF platform, and did my first build with a Streacom DA2. That system was pretty sweet, but didn’t quite do it for me with the form factor, so I did another build with a Loque Ghost S1 running an ASUS mini ITX, Intel i7 CPU and a mid line ASUS Dual Mini graphics card. It was a more challenging build with its smaleer space limitations. It’s fan cooled and I consider it successful, running AutoCad and Office Software on it, etc. At the time I was searching for these cases I of course noticed the Streacom DB4, but assumed it was probably not possible to run the components I needed in a passively cooled case. Now I’ve come back around and am gathering info and parts for building a DB4. So I have a question for you all about TDP considerations for Intel processors and Graphics Cards. I don’t see listing of TDP in the specifications for any of the CPU’s I’m considering, and found info on Versus.com regarding CPU Comparison, with TDP’s listed for Intel, AMD and Apple processors. Specifically I find TDP listed for the 4 CPU’s I’m considering as follows:

Intel i3-14100 w. TDP of 60W
Intel i5-12600K w. TDP of 65W
Intel i5-13600K w. TDP of 65W
Intel i7-13700K w. TDP of 65W

As I started this, I made the assumption that the TDP for most current CPU’s would be much higher, even over 100W, but this information contradicts those assumptions. I assumed I would be forced to choose a much slower CPU because of the assumed higher TDP than I‘ve found here, and decided this build would involve compromise on CPU and GPU selection. These findings seem to indicate otherwise, leading me to actually consider using and i7 CPU. The graphics card I’ve selected is a Palit GeForce RTX 3050 KalmX 6GB Fanless Graphics Card. Do you all concur that I’m progressing in the right direction with these components? Thanks in advance for your advice.

 

[Phuncz]

Welcome to the forum ! Mind you that the TDP is not represented when most boards have the setting to give the CPU any amount of amps it requests. Multicore Enhancement or what's it called.
Performance per watt, the Ryzen 7800X3D still is the best allrounder: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-9700x-performance-smt-disabled/20.html

Be sure to read up on the terms and rules of the forum. Mainly for buying and selling or other commercial activity on the forum as the access is limited and the rules are strictly enforced.

As a new user you're probably not able to edit posts or links just yet, so if a substantial error was made, click the Report-button in the post.

Hope to see you around, enjoy the wonderful world of SFF !

 

[SFFMunkee]

I'm fairly sure Lookout Mountain is a place in the Transformers Movie..
::EDIT:: Yep:
Welcome to the forum

TDP is a messy topic these days, particularly as Intel are concerned, as modern CPUs tend to implement 'boost' power limits for certain periods.
In the case of Ryzen CPUs it's a fairly well known quantity and by default a '65W' chip will boost up to about 88W. Intel tend to flaunt this a bit more. I'm not an expert but remember 65W 11th Gen chips pulling upwards of 150W for short periods.

Either way (regardless of CPU choice) if you're planning to go properly fanless you'll want to set a hard cap on the power draw, and avoid letting it boost too hard. You'll certainly be hard pressed to manage the heat output of modern components without some sort of forced air, and even a small amount makes a big difference.

Source: I spent a lot of time over the last 20-odd years playing with silent or 'fanless' builds, and usually I ended up with semi-fanless

 

[mjrdn]

Hi Nathan, I’m considering either an i5-12600K or an i3-12100 CPU. Do you think I’m headed in the right direction?
Michael

 

[SFFMunkee]

Hi Nathan, I’m considering either an i5-12600K or an i3-12100 CPU. Do you think I’m headed in the right direction?
Michael

Both of those are great choices - once you've got the board/chip, check your BIOS settings for boost and sustained power limits and you should be golden
My experience with passive or mostly-passive cooling is that there's the theory, and then there's the practical and they don't always line up. Lots of trial and error will be needed to get to the point that you're happy, but that's part of the journey

Would love to see your other build if you've got some pics!

 

[mjrdn]

I’ve settled on an i7-12700T. I had sent the question about process or recommendations to either Streacom or QuietPC and received a reply back that both processors I had selected would run too hot for the DB4. The guy was pretty emphatic about it and recommend I look for a “T” version, which is low power consumption, rated at 35W. So, I went with the i7-12700T as it was the fastest of the group. Finding any of these proved to be a challenge. The one I purchased was “Open Box” “Refurbished” from Amazon. I‘m OK with Open Box, but had some pause of thinking over the refurbished part. I assume there is very little one can do to refurbish a microprocessor, and I’m sure it hasn’t been overclocked because a “T” processor cannot be overclocked. Anyway, it comes with a return capability, so I figure it will either work or it won’t. I’m also looking at a couple of others as backup on eBay that are also “Open Box” but in ”New“ condition. My understanding is these are basically new, but removed from a motherboard from a Dell or HP PC, that were probably damaged in some way, so they are selling off the parts. If any of you have any recommendations, considerations, or advice or suggestions about this, please let me know. Ciao’

 

[mjrdn]

Oh, I’ll be happy to share pics of the Louqe Ghost S1 build as soon as I get a chance. Give me a few weeks - lots going on right now.

 

[mjrdn]

And one more thing, I narrowed down my CPU choice based on possible problems associated with Intel 13 and 14 Gen. CPU’s. I decided to stick with the 12 Gen because of that. I seriously considered the i3 and i5 because they have no “e” cores. The i7 does have the “e” cores, but I decided it might be a bit faster, and still restrained to 35W. What do you think?

 

[mjrdn]

One more question, if I were to choose the ”K” series CPU’s, couldn’t I just underclock it to control the heat produced?

 

[mjrdn]

I think I’m falling into the category of “A little education can be a dangerous thing!” While I know some about these things, I’m in no way an authority. Therefore, I defer to others here for guidance and info. Thank you!

 

[SFFMunkee]

I’ve settled on an i7-12700T. I had sent the question about process or recommendations to either Streacom or QuietPC and received a reply back that both processors I had selected would run too hot for the DB4. The guy was pretty emphatic about it and recommend I look for a “T” version, which is low power consumption, rated at 35W. So, I went with the i7-12700T as it was the fastest of the group. Finding any of these proved to be a challenge. The one I purchased was “Open Box” “Refurbished” from Amazon. I‘m OK with Open Box, but had some pause of thinking over the refurbished part. I assume there is very little one can do to refurbish a microprocessor, and I’m sure it hasn’t been overclocked because a “T” processor cannot be overclocked. Anyway, it comes with a return capability, so I figure it will either work or it won’t. I’m also looking at a couple of others as backup on eBay that are also “Open Box” but in ”New“ condition. My understanding is these are basically new, but removed from a motherboard from a Dell or HP PC, that were probably damaged in some way, so they are selling off the parts. If any of you have any recommendations, considerations, or advice or suggestions about this, please let me know. Ciao’

I was going to say finding an S or T processor is a hard ask, I would just make sure you manage the power & boost settings down. I would say you can use any compatible CPU (S, T, K, no-suffix) and just manage boost clocks, voltages and power limits through the BIOS. But that said, I'm not familiar with recent Intel (I went from Intel 4th Gen to Ryzen 5000) but I know with the Ryzen chips you can set any power limit for any CPU.

I'm not convinced you'll have issues with 13th/14th Gen if you're concerned about them damaging themselves, as my understanding is that happens at HIGH power/thermal limits, which isn't something you're likely to be doing given your planned build

 

[mjrdn]

Nathan, you are so right! These are extremely difficult to find. I have found a few on eBay, used, open box with some claiming to be new. It appears CPU‘s designated as “T” are only sold in bulk to OEM companies and are available only as a Tray item, meaning it is not sold in a box, but literally comes in a tray. Many sellers are Chinese, and most I found on eBay appear to be legit. I expect they are selling products that are striped from unsold computers or returned PC’s with warranty claims, or maybe they sell chips that were made available as excess CPU’s that were not installed in OEM PC’s. The only real issue is little to no warranty unless the OEM manufacturer will support it, but the sellers usually have a 30 day return policy or something similar. I did find the i7-12700T available on the caseking website listed for approximately $450. U.S., which is outrageous. The eBay sellers are typically in the $250-$350 U.S. range.

I just saw a news posting yesterday about the 13th and 14th generation CPU’s, stating Intel has acknowledged and identified the problem and the problem has been fixed. I did observe, however, the problem with 13th and 14th generation chips are not applicable to the “T” chips, officially stated and you are correct about that. So, with this in mind, I’m now considering a 13th or 14th gen. We’ll see what I can find and I’ll report back as this comes together. If I happen to go with one of the no-suffix chips, do you know if there is software that can be used for managing throttling, power consumption and temperature, or is that just handled through the BIOS? I seem to observe a price advantage to sticking with the no-suffix versions, and they are available boxed with a warranty. Many thanks for your input.

 

[SFFMunkee]

I remember there used to be Intel XPT for managing the power limits, or ThrottleStop for mobile (maybe desktop too?) but I haven't used Intel for several generations so I'd suggest reading up as I don't know what's out there for modern chips

 

[mjrdn]

All, please pardon my lack of experience here. I hope my questions don’t seem trite or boring. In researching CPU’s and based on availability at this time, these are the microprossors I am considering:

i7-12700T (“new”, pulled from a Dell desktop, Base TDP 35W, Max TDP +/- 99W, ~$300)
i7-13700T (new, Base TDP 35W, Max TDP +/- 106W, ~$452, 27% faster than i7-12700T)
i5-14600T (new, Base TDP 35W, Max TDP +/- 92W, ~$308, 17% faster than i7-12700T)
I9-14900T (new, Base TDP 35W, Max TDP +/- 106W, ~$641, 88% faster than i7-12700T)

Of course I am skeptical about the TDP ratings. Am I just way wrong in thinking an i9 processor might work in a Streacom DB4 case with only passive cooling?

Many thanks for your advice. I know there are other CPU’s available from Intel, but I simply haven’t found them to be available at this time. I’d seriously consider the i7-14700T, but it just isn’t available at this time. I did not consider AMD due to a bad experience I had with them some years ago. I suppose if I have to consider semi-fanless, then I’ll cross that bridge when I cone to it.

If you have other suggestions for consideration, I’m happy to hear them. Thx in advance.

 

[SFFMunkee]

All, please pardon my lack of experience here. I hope my questions don’t seem trite or boring. In researching CPU’s and based on availability at this time, these are the microprossors I am considering:

i7-12700T (“new”, pulled from a Dell desktop, Base TDP 35W, Max TDP +/- 99W, ~$300)
i7-13700T (new, Base TDP 35W, Max TDP +/- 106W, ~$452, 27% faster than i7-12700T)
i5-14600T (new, Base TDP 35W, Max TDP +/- 92W, ~$308, 17% faster than i7-12700T)
I9-14900T (new, Base TDP 35W, Max TDP +/- 106W, ~$641, 88% faster than i7-12700T)

Of course I am skeptical about the TDP ratings. Am I just way wrong in thinking an i9 processor might work in a Streacom DB4 case with only passive cooling?

Many thanks for your advice. I know there are other CPU’s available from Intel, but I simply haven’t found them to be available at this time. I’d seriously consider the i7-14700T, but it just isn’t available at this time. I did not consider AMD due to a bad experience I had with them some years ago. I suppose if I have to consider semi-fanless, then I’ll cross that bridge when I cone to it.

If you have other suggestions for consideration, I’m happy to hear them. Thx in advance.

The T chips will be designed for 35W typical power rating. So they might boost but nothing like the non-suffix or K series which can go crazy on short term power.

So I don’t think you’re crazy for thinking an i9 might work, but similar to mobile chips they won’t perform the same as you might expect in a non limited (thermal/power) environment.

These scenarios are why I really miss the old SilentPCReview site. Sadly it’s long gone and now an click generator ad site

@REVOCCASES any suggestions on thermal management for passive cooling on recent Intel chips?

 

[REVOCCASES]

Am I just way wrong in thinking an i9 processor might work in a Streacom DB4 case with only passive cooling?

It all comes down to the PL you will set. Based on my experience with the DB4 you can go up to 65W continuous Power Level (doesn't really matter if i5, i7 or i9)

Another idea would be to use one of those MoDT ITX boards with Intel or AMD mobile CPU (e.g. from Erying or Minisforum). I think they are a little more efficient and have better iGPUs which makes them interesting for passive cooled builds IMHO.

 

[mjrdn]

Many thanks for your comments. I will look into the MoDT ITX / Mobile CPU options. Meanwhile, yesterday I found a seller on eBay from the U.S. with excellent ratings and feedback. I inquired about the i7-14700T and he has (5) available - had not yet listed them. So I bit the bullet. I’ll report back once everything is in hand and assembled. I get the feeling you want to see this as a successful build just as much as I do, thanks! As an aside, I was considering the i9, but holy cow are they expensive. The i7 came in about $350 less. All in all, this has been a pricey build. Silence truly is golden I suppose.

 

[REVOCCASES]

I was considering the i9, but holy cow are they expensive. The i7 came in about $400 less.

apart from the price difference, TBH I think the i7 is a better choice for a power (thermal) limited build

 

[mjrdn]

Hello again. I finally received the i7-14700T and have gotten back into my build, only to realize the DB4 LH6 CPU Cooling Kit is not going to work with my motherboard. Where the extra pipes emerge from the CPU heatsink, the new pipes will interfere with a heat sync on the motherboard which runs from the memory slots and across the side toward the IO plate side. Do you think I’ll have any problem with cooling the CPU without the LH6? What do you think the chances are of successfully bending a couple of the copper pipes from the LH6 to increase the heat transfer to the stock heatsync that connects to the case wall? I can probably purchase a couple of extra copper pipes for the stock heat sync which would increase its pipe number from 4 to 6. Perhaps that is what I should do, but unfortunately they are sold out. Any suggestions please?

 

[mjrdn]

Yesterday I decided to follow through with a Noctua NH-D9L Chromas Black with 2021 NISSAN Frontier King Cab SV 4X4-A9 92mm fan. I feel as if I‘ve compromised completely on the build with the intent and goal of keeping it passive. I also found a laser cutting service and place and order for a perforated aluminum top for the case, to allow it to breath better. Today I receive an email with a back in stock notification for the heat pipes. So… I went ahead and ordered the heat pipes + extras called DIY heat pipes - they are straight and allow the user to bend them as they like. I also ordered a pipe bending tool to help avoid creasing the pipes while bending. Right now I intend to proceed with the Noctua CPU cooler and later transition to the passive solution, hopefully being able to route over the offending heat sync on the motherboard. I’ll post results as this evolves and maybe even a few photos when done. Thanks for your interest and support. I want to see this happen.