DAN SFX 4 - with AIO

collegebum89

Chassis Packer
May 5, 2020
15
1
Hey zedstar,

I also just installed the 645LT AIO inside my Dan A4 case and wasn't impressed with the thermals. I'm getting around 40C idle, and 60-70C while gaming. TBH, this isn't much of an improvement over the L9A cooling. What made you switch back to air cooling (aside from the high thermals)? Did you try different configurations (undervolting, BIOS configs, fan curves, etc.)?

Trying to see if I should also go back to air cooling. Installing the AIO is a pain in the ass that seems to provide minimal value if thermals don't dramatically improve.
 

Dawelio

Awesomeness
Moderator
Dec 17, 2017
226
107
What you need to keep in mind with Ryzen 3000 CPUs is that they are designed to run at very high voltages straight from the factory. They run around 1.005 - 1.5V, which is not "normal" for traditional CPUs, yet 3rd gen Ryzen are a whole new architectur and it's the smallest processing node, 7nm.

Do you have your CPU set to Auto in the BIOS? In other words, are both your CPU frequenzy and voltage set to auto? This results in makes it run up and down a lot, due to the voltage fluctuate a lot. I noticed the fan on my 645LT spinning up and down alot cause of this. Once I had set a fixed frequnzy AND undervolted it - it stopped and the temps went down. It never surpassed 90 degress during an 12 hours long Aida64 Extreme torture test.
90 degrees is high, I wouldn't run it like that 24/7, but keep in mind that this was a torture/stress test. Basically a load that is as hard as you can hit your CPU, the load is out of this world. No other workload you do, will ever even come close to the load this test puts on your CPU. It's designed to do this, hence "stress test".

If you try to set a fixed CPU frequncy and undervolt your CPU, I'm pretty certain you'll see better results. Both in terms of temperatures and noise.

Speaking of cables, I'd highly recommend PSlate Customs. He has cables that are specifically designed for the A4 SFX. They are perfect, especially the 24 pin.
Unfortunately I can not tell you when he might open again, but I do highly recommend his cables if you can get hold of them.


Lastly, you asked regarding configuration in a previous post. I have mine running in pull, with fan on top of radiator, between the radiator and PSU. Blowing air onto the PSU. I also have an metal fan guard, just to be a bit more at peace in case any cables might want to drop down over time, the fan guard will prevent that from happening (hopefully).
 

collegebum89

Chassis Packer
May 5, 2020
15
1
What you need to keep in mind with Ryzen 3000 CPUs is that they are designed to run at very high voltages straight from the factory. They run around 1.005 - 1.5V, which is not "normal" for traditional CPUs, yet 3rd gen Ryzen are a whole new architectur and it's the smallest processing node, 7nm.

Do you have your CPU set to Auto in the BIOS? In other words, are both your CPU frequenzy and voltage set to auto? This results in makes it run up and down a lot, due to the voltage fluctuate a lot. I noticed the fan on my 645LT spinning up and down alot cause of this. Once I had set a fixed frequnzy AND undervolted it - it stopped and the temps went down. It never surpassed 90 degress during an 12 hours long Aida64 Extreme torture test.
90 degrees is high, I wouldn't run it like that 24/7, but keep in mind that this was a torture/stress test. Basically a load that is as hard as you can hit your CPU, the load is out of this world. No other workload you do, will ever even come close to the load this test puts on your CPU. It's designed to do this, hence "stress test".

If you try to set a fixed CPU frequncy and undervolt your CPU, I'm pretty certain you'll see better results. Both in terms of temperatures and noise.

Speaking of cables, I'd highly recommend PSlate Customs. He has cables that are specifically designed for the A4 SFX. They are perfect, especially the 24 pin.
Unfortunately I can not tell you when he might open again, but I do highly recommend his cables if you can get hold of them.


Lastly, you asked regarding configuration in a previous post. I have mine running in pull, with fan on top of radiator, between the radiator and PSU. Blowing air onto the PSU. I also have an metal fan guard, just to be a bit more at peace in case any cables might want to drop down over time, the fan guard will prevent that from happening (hopefully).
Appreciate the detailed reply! I have set the CPU to a fixed core ratio (40x) so the CPU frequency should be set to 4GHz.

Noise seems like it'll be fixed by unsleeved custom cables (currently have sleeved custom cables) and a PSU mod (increasing clearance height). I think the excess noise isn't just because of the fans hitting the cables, but also because the low clearance causes vibrations from the fast spinning at faster speeds to propagate through components.

As for thermals, it seems like the AIO is correctly set up. I was just concerned whether I did something wrong in set up since this is my first AIO build and the first time building in the DAN A4 case.
 

Dawelio

Awesomeness
Moderator
Dec 17, 2017
226
107
Appreciate the detailed reply! I have set the CPU to a fixed core ratio (40x) so the CPU frequency should be set to 4GHz.

Noise seems like it'll be fixed by unsleeved custom cables (currently have sleeved custom cables) and a PSU mod (increasing clearance height). I think the excess noise isn't just because of the fans hitting the cables, but also because the low clearance causes vibrations from the fast spinning at faster speeds to propagate through components.

As for thermals, it seems like the AIO is correctly set up. I was just concerned whether I did something wrong in set up since this is my first AIO build and the first time building in the DAN A4 case.
No worries, my pleasure!
I think the excess noise isn't just because of the fans hitting the cables, but also because the low clearance causes vibrations from the fast spinning at faster speeds to propagate through components.
That seems odd though, that your cables would cause that much of an noise sound. Even when I had the included cables with the Corsair SF750, I didn't encounter this issue. Neither now with custom cables.

Wow really? Nice one dude! Congratulations! You probably went to one of the most difficult builds anyone can do - as a first build haha.
Even experienced users and enthusiast (such as myself) find it a bit difficult to actually build and cram everything inside of the Dan A4 SFX. And this is coming from me, who has probably switched platforms between ATX, mATX and ITX alteast 20 times in the past 3-4 years.

I'm impressed that you actually had the courage and went through with a build in this compact case, as your first build. Very well done!


In what way are you concerned regarding the AIO though, due to you wrote "seems like the AIO is correctly set up"?
 

collegebum89

Chassis Packer
May 5, 2020
15
1
No worries, my pleasure!


That seems odd though, that your cables would cause that much of an noise sound. Even when I had the included cables with the Corsair SF750, I didn't encounter this issue. Neither now with custom cables.

Wow really? Nice one dude! Congratulations! You probably went to one of the most difficult builds anyone can do - as a first build haha.
Even experienced users and enthusiast (such as myself) find it a bit difficult to actually build and cram everything inside of the Dan A4 SFX. And this is coming from me, who has probably switched platforms between ATX, mATX and ITX alteast 20 times in the past 3-4 years.

I'm impressed that you actually had the courage and went through with a build in this compact case, as your first build. Very well done!


In what way are you concerned regarding the AIO though, due to you wrote "seems like the AIO is correctly set up"?
Thanks!!! Definitely a steep learning curve, but extremely rewarding I'd say. I initially started building the PC to have something to use, and now find myself spending more time build it than actually using it lol.

My concern with the AIO stems from lack of experience (with AIOs and with optimizing performance with SFFPCs). I guess I had an expectation of what thermal performance was supposed to be from all of the videos/articles I saw online with identical components and surprised that my specific build wasn't performing the same way. Thought I did something wrong as a result. TBH, I thought I'd be getting 30-40C idle temps, and 55-65C while gaming. While it's somewhat close, it's nowhere near that.
 

Dawelio

Awesomeness
Moderator
Dec 17, 2017
226
107
Thanks!!! Definitely a steep learning curve, but extremely rewarding I'd say. I initially started building the PC to have something to use, and now find myself spending more time build it than actually using it lol.

My concern with the AIO stems from lack of experience (with AIOs and with optimizing performance with SFFPCs). I guess I had an expectation of what thermal performance was supposed to be from all of the videos/articles I saw online with identical components and surprised that my specific build wasn't performing the same way. Thought I did something wrong as a result. TBH, I thought I'd be getting 30-40C idle temps, and 55-65C while gaming. While it's somewhat close, it's nowhere near that.
I see, well you mentioned in your previous post that you had set the CPU at 4GHz, but at what voltage is that 4GHz though?
 

collegebum89

Chassis Packer
May 5, 2020
15
1
I'm running Ryzen 3800x with Nividia 2080 Super, 16GB Ripjawz 3600, 2 M.2 SSDs, and a Silverstone SX650-G SFX PSU.

UPDATE: I adjusted the CPU to have a core ratio of 39 (i.e., 3.9GHz speed) and core voltage of 1.075. I left the computer on all night, and in the morning, CPU idle temps were between 40-45C. During normal use (e.g., web browsing and application use), CPU temps were between 50-60C.

I then played Shadow of the Tomb Raider for about 40min (Ultra settings, 120Hz display), and the CPU temp steadily rose to around 68C, with a max temp around 72C. I'd say after 15-20min, CPU temps stayed consistently between 68-70C. GPU temp hovered around 80-82C.

Happy to report that noise levels were also not that significant. The clicking noise I previously experienced with the fan speed went away entirely (I think this was a cable problem), and any noise produced by the radiator fan and AIO pump appeared inaudible compared to noise produced by the GPU fans. You could definitely hear the fans, but it wasn't distracting to my ears.


Previously, air-cooling with the Noctua L9A produced CPU temps around 75-77C when playing the same game (for approximately ~20min) with a max CPU temp around 78C.

From this, I see about a 6C improvement with water-cooling with the 645LT compared to air-cooling with the L9A while gaming. While this doesn't really seem all that significant to me (I was expecting between a 10-15C improvement), I'm hoping the thermal performance difference is much better when overclocking the CPU. Otherwise, the hassle with installing the 645LT in the Dan A4 case doesn't really seem worth it over keeping it simple and air-cooling with the L9A (or maybe using a beefier air cooler).
 
Last edited:

Dawelio

Awesomeness
Moderator
Dec 17, 2017
226
107
That seems more like it, although using standard webbrowsing etc as an test isn't sufficient. Due to you have undervolted your CPU and you may have been able to play a game, doesn't necessarily mean your PC won't crash during a game, a week from now, 3 weeks from now.

If you want to test for stability you need to use a stress test and run that for atleast 12 hours, without any crashes. If it crashes during that test, it's not stable. I ran for 12 hours without a crash, but that was me being impatient. Luckily I haven't experienced anything out of the ordinary yet - which is a good sign.
But most recommend atleast 24 hours, preferrebly 48 hours.

The first month after tinkering and a successful stress test is the "real" test, seeing as that is the normal use case. There are many variables that can cause instability and not one single test is enough nor perfect. If you want to be more sure, run several different stress test for longer periods of time (12+ hours), cause the more that pass, the more stable you can be sure your system is.
 

collegebum89

Chassis Packer
May 5, 2020
15
1
That seems more like it, although using standard webbrowsing etc as an test isn't sufficient. Due to you have undervolted your CPU and you may have been able to play a game, doesn't necessarily mean your PC won't crash during a game, a week from now, 3 weeks from now.

If you want to test for stability you need to use a stress test and run that for atleast 12 hours, without any crashes. If it crashes during that test, it's not stable. I ran for 12 hours without a crash, but that was me being impatient. Luckily I haven't experienced anything out of the ordinary yet - which is a good sign.
But most recommend atleast 24 hours, preferrebly 48 hours.

The first month after tinkering and a successful stress test is the "real" test, seeing as that is the normal use case. There are many variables that can cause instability and not one single test is enough nor perfect. If you want to be more sure, run several different stress test for longer periods of time (12+ hours), cause the more that pass, the more stable you can be sure your system is.
Great point, will perform a longer-term stress test. Any suggestions on one you've run personally?
 

Dawelio

Awesomeness
Moderator
Dec 17, 2017
226
107
Great point, will perform a longer-term stress test. Any suggestions on one you've run personally?
The only one I ran were Aida64 Extreme. Have heard regarding Prime95 and OCCT to name a few, haven't used these personally though.

Here's 2 links I found regarding stress testing with different software for testing and different monitoring software. Not sure how good they are, legitible etc, due to not used them myself. Just did a Google search.

I used personally CPUID HWMonitor, HWiNFO64 and MSI Afterburner for GPU temps.


 

collegebum89

Chassis Packer
May 5, 2020
15
1
The only one I ran were Aida64 Extreme. Have heard regarding Prime95 and OCCT to name a few, haven't used these personally though.

Here's 2 links I found regarding stress testing with different software for testing and different monitoring software. Not sure how good they are, legitible etc, due to not used them myself. Just did a Google search.

I used personally CPUID HWMonitor, HWiNFO64 and MSI Afterburner for GPU temps.


Awesome, gonna check them both out! After doing some additional research, I'm becoming more and more convinced of the AIO option for cooling a 3800x inside the Dan case.