Chopin build questions

[LeDelmo]

Starting this thread for everyone to have a place to ask questions regarding Chopin builds.


And I would like to start things off with a few myself.
(My case came in the mail a few days back, really excited.)

So, I am aware that rear mounted M.2 sticks are having overheating issues with this case. Does anyone think something as simple as a Thermal pad would fix this issues? Secondary, does anyone know if there is a PCIe M.2 adapter that might fit in the Chopin case?

(I was thinking about using a dremel to make some vents behind the Motherboard but would prefer not having to do something so drastic.)

Something else I wanted to ask about. ASRocks B450 itx's USB-C connection. Is this not compatible as Thunderbolt 3? Thunderbolt 3 is supposed to be 40Gb/s but this USB-C is only 10Gb/s that I can see.

I want to know because I was thinking that later that USB-C could have been used to connect to a eGPU (External GPU).
Otherwise, would something like a ThunderBolt 3 PCIe expansion card be able to fit inside the Chopin case?

Lastly, has anyone made or thought about making a PCIe output connection? That way you could use a cable to connect it to a eGPU and still keep the full 16 lanes?

Look forward to hearing back from you all.
And just want to say thanks in advance.

 

[Choidebu]

ASRocks B450 itx's USB-C connection. Is this not compatible as Thunderbolt 3? Thunderbolt 3 is supposed to be 40Gb/s but this USB-C is only 10Gb/s that I can see.

Intel holds the rights to thunderbolt 3 and so far no AMD boards can use them. So yeah, it's not a TB3 port.

 

[LeDelmo]

No thoughts?

Well, I haven't found any PCIe to Thunderbolt 3 expansion cards that look like they would fit in a Chopin case yet. And if anyone is wondering what I am talking about its one these.
https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GC-ALPINE-RIDGE-rev-20#ov
(Note, THB-C header pins required on the motherboard though)

It really is too bad not a single AMD itx board support Thunderbolt 3. I would have thought itx would be the ideal format for Thunderbolt 3 support.

I also found another possible route. Someone could go M.2 to Thunderbolt 3! This is very interesting to me. This gives you so many possibilities for configurations.

Here's the link:
http://www.bplus.com.tw/eGPU.html

You could take this as far as getting a PCIe to Dual M.2 expansion than add the M.2 to Thunderbolt 3 adapter on top of that. Not only would you get a Thunderbolt 3 connection but also a extra M.2!

Anyway, just thinking about possibilities for the future.

I was thinking how cool it would be to be able to use the Chopin build by itself with my main TV for entertainment. And than the ability to hook it up to a eGPU and have the eGPU connected to a gaming monitor. I could literally go back and forth between both set-ups by only needing to plug and unplug two cables.

Even if the GPU isn't able to run at full potential it would still be a huge boost over the APU.

At-least those are my thoughts.

 

[LeDelmo]

Intel holds the rights to thunderbolt 3 and so far no AMD boards can use them. So yeah, it's not a TB3 port.

lol I actually did not know Intel owned it (Thanks for the heads up). I wonder if any of this is even possible on a AMD platform now let alone a Intel one.

 

[LeDelmo]

Man, I really hate being such a indecisive person. It is the cause of allot of anxiety for me.

I was so set with the B450 and 2400G. But, I had always planned on adding a eGPU at a later date. Now, I have to make a decision between sticking with the AMD set-up as is and abandoning any chance of a external GPU upgrade at a later date. Or go for a i5 8600k with the ASRock Z370 which will come at a $110 premium.

As you can probably tell I tend to really over think everything. It probably looks like a confusing mess.

Sorry about all this. But I would really appreciate some advice.

 

[el01]

Even better:
Mod in a low-profile 1050 or something so there's no bottlenecking over TB3, and you get basically no compromises.

Do you already have the Chopin? Because if you really need something with an expandable GPU, I would point you towards a DeskMini. Those things are FREAKING AMAZING.

Finally, I would take a look at this:

Hopefully it fits. If all else fails, just get a U.2 drive, or maybe use this:

m.2 to u.2, then u.2 cable to u.2, then that u.2 back to m.2.

 

[LeDelmo]

Even better:
Mod in a low-profile 1050 or something so there's no bottlenecking over TB3, and you get basically no compromises.

Do you already have the Chopin? Because if you really need something with an expandable GPU, I would point you towards a DeskMini. Those things are FREAKING AMAZING.

Finally, I would take a look at this:

Hopefully it fits. If all else fails, just get a U.2 drive, or maybe use this:

m.2 to u.2, then u.2 cable to u.2, then that u.2 back to m.2.

That will indeed fit perfectly inside the Chopin case. Honestly, that might have to be a must buy no matter what. Love how it looks and it will be able to utilize the unused PCIe slot in the Chopin regardless.

From what I have seen, the Chopin should be able to fit anything 45mm high or under. And there is just a little space available between the PCIe slot and battery as-well. (I could measure to get more accurate numbers)

I do already have the case. I ordered it before they stopped being available for the US on Amazon. I was set on this case as I could not find any other that I particularly liked. Some of which costed allot more than this case and would still need a PSU. Where as the Chopin comes with one.

I am still unclear whether there is any possibility of running a external GPU with a AMD system.

I am completely fine with some bottle necking of the GPU as-well. As the external GPU would still be able to run at-least 80% effectiveness it looks like. Which would still be a huge jump up from the APU and even be capable of running VR off it.

 

[Choidebu]

Have you seen Inwin Chopin GPU 1050 ti Mod - Pluto?

 

[LeDelmo]

Have you seen Inwin Chopin GPU 1050 ti Mod - Pluto?

Yeah, I've seen it. Great build but not what I am looking to do.

The whole point of a eGPU would strictly be for VR support and maybe some more serious gaming. So, I would be looking at at-least a GTX 1080.

Also, looks like that SilverStone ECM23 will be out this Dec. in case anyone else is interested.

Still no confirmation on how a AMD system could even run a eGPU yet. But, I did find out the ThunderBolt 3 is now open source. So, that's something I guess...

 

[el01]

Yeah, I've seen it. Great build but not what I am looking to do.

The whole point of a eGPU would strictly be for VR support and maybe some more serious gaming. So, I would be looking at at-least a GTX 1080.

Also, looks like that SilverStone ECM23 will be out this Dec. in case anyone else is interested.

Still no confirmation on how a AMD system could even run a eGPU yet. But, I did find out the ThunderBolt 3 is now open source. So, that's something I guess...

I think you need a larger case...

You can hypothetically run VR on a 1070 or 1070 Ti on PCIe x16, so why go buy a 1080? Also, eGPU boxes are expensive-more expensive than buying a larger case. If portability is a concern, then go with eGPU. But if you're a home user, I would stay away.

 

[LeDelmo]

I think you need a larger case...

You can hypothetically run VR on a 1070 or 1070 Ti on PCIe x16, so why go buy a 1080? Also, eGPU boxes are expensive-more expensive than buying a larger case. If portability is a concern, then go with eGPU. But if you're a home user, I would stay away.

Well, I was willing to abandon the VR support in favor of a smaller PC.

And I still am. But, if there is a way to hook this this up to a external GPU and gain VR support that would be the ideal situation. That way I can use the PC for all my needs until a time when I decide to upgrade it with a external GPU.

Everyone knows a eGPU will bottle neck at-least to some degree. So, I was thinking a 1080 would just allow more head room for smooth VR support.

This set-up would be the most pleasing to me. As I would have a small PC I could use in my main room with my TV for regular use. Than, at some point down the road I could buy a external GPU. Which I would have hooked up to a VR set-up/gaming monitor in a different room and be able to freely move between them whenever I like. This would also allow me to freely take my PC with me wherever I go as-well. And it would eliminate the need to build a Full VR/Gaming rig. (which I believe would cost substantially more than just adding a eGPU to a already existing system)

 

[el01]

Well, I was willing to abandon the VR support in favor of a smaller PC.

And I still am. But, if there is a way to hook this this up to a external GPU and gain VR support that would be the ideal situation. That way I can use the PC for all my needs until a time when I decide to upgrade it with a external GPU.

Everyone knows a eGPU will bottle neck at-least to some degree. So, I was thinking a 1080 would just allow more head room for smooth VR support.

This set-up would be the most pleasing to me. As I would have a small PC I could use in my main room with my TV for regular use. Than, at some point down the road I could buy a external GPU. Which I would have hooked up to a VR set-up/gaming monitor in a different room and be able to freely move between them whenever I like. This would also allow me to freely take my PC with me wherever I go as-well. And it would eliminate the need to build a Full VR/Gaming rig. (which I believe would cost substantially more than just adding a eGPU to a already existing system)

Easy.. Get something pretty portable like the NCase or the S4M and then build a system in there. When you're ready to throw in a GPU, do so, and then you can still tote it around easily.

If those cases are too expensive for you, I would go with a Node 202 from Fractal Design. Yes, it's bigger, but it's still pretty portable for carrying between rooms...

 

[LeDelmo]

Easy.. Get something pretty portable like the NCase or the S4M and then build a system in there. When you're ready to throw in a GPU, do so, and then you can still tote it around easily.

If those cases are too expensive for you, I would go with a Node 202 from Fractal Design. Yes, it's bigger, but it's still pretty portable for carrying between rooms...

Again, I am already set with the Chopin case.

Before, I bought it I had looked extensively at other cases and nothing really caught my attention like the Chopin did. (Though, the NCase was the best option imo)

It's merely a matter of is it even possible to run a external GPU with a AMD mini itx system.
Or dare I consider opting for a intel system. Which I am not exactly keen on doing as the intel CPU's are ridiculous overprices ATM and aren't all that impressive right now considering AMD's offering. (I mean seriously, $350-$400 for just a CPU?)

If there is a way to run AMD's 2400G CPU and add on a eGPU at a later date. I would like to try it.

 

[LeDelmo]

Well, it's getting closer to the sale date. And I am considering going full budget build.

Basically instead of getting the 2400G I'd opt for the 2200G instead. And just get 2x4Gb Ram sticks instead of 2x8Gb Sticks.
This would nearly save me $200 not even including any sales that come up.

The 2200G is allot more impressive than I ordinarily thought. It's allot more power efficient and produces allot less heat allowing ample room for over clocking. And its probably the safer choice considering the 150W PSU I will be using. Where as the 2400G could easily consume much more power than available if you are not careful. All the 2200G really loses is the 8 threads and a couple hundred Mhz at base clock.

The Ram would be a hard option to give up. I would love to have 16Gb's available. But, Do I really need that much Ram?
8Gb of Ram should be plenty for what I plan to use this PC for. And at a substantial price savings. Even allocating 1Gb or even 2Gb as Video memory would still leave me with 7Gb and 6Gb respectively. The only real problem I have with the 2x4Gb route would be the inability to re-use the Ram at a later date for another build down the road.

What do you all think?

Would 8Gb of Ram be enough?

 

[el01]

Well, it's getting closer to the sale date. And I am considering going full budget build.

Basically instead of getting the 2400G I'd opt for the 2200G instead. And just get 2x4Gb Ram sticks instead of 2x16Gb Sticks.
This would nearly save me $200 not even including any sales that come up.

The 2200G is allot more impressive than I ordinarily thought. It's allot more power efficient and produces allot less heat allowing ample room for over clocking. And its probably the safer choice considering the 150W PSU I will be using. Where as the 2400G could easily consume much more power than available if you are not careful. All the 2200G really loses is the 8 threads and a couple hundred Mhz at base clock.

The Ram would be a hard option to give up. I would love to have 16Gb's available. But, Do I really need that much Ram?
8Gb of Ram should be plenty for what I plan to use this PC for. And at a substantial price savings. Even allocating 1Gb or even 2Gb as Video memory would still leave me with 7Gb and 6Gb respectively. The only real problem I have with the 2x4Gb route would be the inability to re-use the Ram at a later date for another build down the road.

What do you all think?

Would 8Gb of Ram be enough?

Not sure if you could do this, but 12GB. My (essentially a watered down 2200G) laptop uses 12GB of RAM and it does fine.

 

[Windfall]

Not sure if you could do this, but 12GB. My (essentially a watered down 2200G) laptop uses 12GB of RAM and it does fine.

It's very hard to find 6GB (nigh impossible, in fact) sticks, especially at speeds that Ryzen needs.

 

[el01]

It's very hard to find 6GB (nigh impossible, in fact) sticks, especially at speeds that Ryzen needs.

8 GB + 4GB? Oh wait, that doesn't work.

 

[LeDelmo]

I have a quick question that needs clarification.

When it comes to Boot Drives. (The drive you use to Boot Windows off.)
What is the best option?

If I am not mistaken. Both a normal 2.5" SSD and M.2 SSD would be almost identical in performance.
But, a NVMe wouldn't really offer any extra performance as a boot drive?

And as long as the drive supports the socket you can use both types of M.2 drives. Like, if a Motherboard has a NMVe supported M.2 slot you are not limited to just using a NVMe cards there. But, you cannot use a NVMe card in a M.2 slot that only supports M.2 SSD.
(Hope I said all the correctly and it isn't making things more confusing)

What I am trying to find is the best option to use as a Boot Drive.

Would I be better off getting something like a Samsung 860 EVO M.2 or a Samsung 960 EVO NVMe M.2?
Or just but a normal 2.5" SSD to use as a boot drive?

Prices seem to be around $80 for the 2.5" 500Gs SSD, $100 for a 500Gb M.2 SSD, and $160 for the 500Gb NVMe M.2

 

[el01]

https://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=118680

 

[Choidebu]

The advantage of nvme ssd vs (m2 or not) sata ssd lies in copying big files. This is an oversimplification but I think is enough for you to make a decision.

Boot time can be divided into two part: hardware/bios POST, OS boot.

BIOS POST won't be affected whether you have nvme or not. It does fluctuate if you have a lot of devices connected.

OS (hard) boot is never big files operation. It is always lots of small files loaded and executed etc. Soft boot (e.g. suspend to disk) is another story - this is just an educated guess, I might be wrong - could possibly be big image file loadout operation to ram.

So I'd say not much difference going nvme to decrease boot time against sata ssd. Even desktop programs might not see much improvement. But games which copies big resource files, media creation/editing, might see more.