Stalled Catz C-1 (5L), C-SFX (10L) and C-WS (15L)

[amitoza]

Not to be hostile, but can you please elaborate on how these case designs aren't blatant rip offs of the NFC S4 Mini and the Zaber Sentry? So far the major differences I can see are:

Catz C-1
- Flipped the GPU over to face the same way as the CPU cooler
- Full wrap around bezel vs. 2/3 wraparound bezel in the same 5mm aluminum (bend radius, finish, etc.) as the S4 mini uses
- ODD support behind GPU

Catz C-SFX
- Flipped PSU orientation

I'm all for people being enthusiastic about case design and I recognize that there are only so many ways you can arrange a power supply, motherboard and GPU inside of a box. That being said, when the whole aesthetic and layout is 95% the same as another product in the market (especially cases as easily visible as the Sentry and S4 Mini), I think someone needs to say something. I also think it's worth mentioning that I am aware of at least one patent you are violating here if you are planning to sell or produce these cases. If you haven't expressly received written permission to use these features, you might be stepping on some toes without realizing it.

1. completly different skellet layout and materials. Sentry - 1mm steel, s4mini 1,5mm steel( aluminium?)
In my project you have 2mm aluminium sheets assambled together by 3axis threaded cubes. it's fully modular, and easy modify.
2. patent for what? unibody? In old prototypes I used 2mm, 3mm, but 5mm looks better. Maybe layout? Sentry has the same component layout like raven rvz 1/2, milo ml07/08, node 202, and s4mini like logic supply sc600. - my cases are only next alternative. I'm sorry but this layout is the best for slim htpc, l was trying a lot of options - TFX, flexATX, but only sfx is common on europe market... and simply better.

C-sfx is taller than Sentry so, you can use better cpu cooler and 25mm fans below gpu. It's on first place non plastic alternative for node 202/rvz/ml.
and C1? in EU there's no alternative... and without unibody it's not even similar to s4mini.

sorry for my english.

pavrum and patent for cubes? I was using this types of cubes about 8 years ago with tube guitar amps chasis, It's nothing new.

 

[BlueToast]

Maybe it's just me but I don't see how any SFF enthusiast could confuse the S4 mini with this case, short of having only seen the case once in a blurry photo, or being so drunk that they can't tell their house apart from the neighbors. Given that the two must-have pieces of a SFF gaming rig are the motherboard and GPU, there are only a limited number of ways that everything can be laid out logically (normal ATX-esque layout, back-back like the Hutzy, or side-side like the S4) without causing massive space inefficiencies.

 

[|||]

I get that the utility of the mod cubes allows for flat sheets to be used to create these cases, but you obviously need some sort of break to bend the 5mm wrap-around...what's the cost difference in using mod cubes, screws, and the necessary labor to assemble more pieces, rather than bending some of the case panels? IMO, I like cleaner looking things, and bent panels would eliminate some of the screws on the outside. I do understand others may prefer a more utilitarian look that the screws may offer as well. And is that slot for a slot-loading disk drive?

As for patents, design patents are crap and hard to litigate; utility patents are the only ones worth while. For something like use of the cubes in a case, the things that would need to be patented are the cubes themselves, which have been done for a very long time are aren't non-obvious. The smaller case is more similar to the S3 Mini than the S4 Mini, and the construction of these cases are completely different. As far as aesthetics go, they're similar, but not the same...the iPhone example was brought up earlier in this thread and very appropriate.

 

[Thehack]

I get that the utility of the mod cubes allows for flat sheets to be used to create these cases, but you obviously need some sort of break to bend the 5mm wrap-around...what's the cost difference in using mod cubes, screws, and the necessary labor to assemble more pieces, rather than bending some of the case panels? IMO, I like cleaner looking things, and bent panels would eliminate some of the screws on the outside. I do understand others may prefer a more utilitarian look that the screws may offer as well. And is that slot for a slot-loading disk drive?

As for patents, design patents are crap and hard to litigate; utility patents are the only ones worth while. For something like use of the cubes in a case, the things that would need to be patented are the cubes themselves, which have been done for a very long time are aren't non-obvious. The smaller case is more similar to the S3 Mini than the S4 Mini, and the construction of these cases are completely different. As far as aesthetics go, their similar, but not the same...the iPhone example was brought up earlier in this thread and very appropriate.

I skimmed the thread, and he says he works with a laser company. More than likely, precise internal bends are difficult but large bend like the 5mm panel is possible with a jig.

Patents are functional, at least in US legal usage. This is more like trade dressing.

amitoza, I think the implementation of the wrap-around 5mm and vandal switch brings the product too close in looks to the S4 Mini. The angular design looks good. Maybe you should embrace it have it be a continual motif?

The S4 is a product in a whole different category, however. It has all the details just right.

 

[iFreilicht]

First of, good job on the cases! I personally would like the panels to be finished in some way, maybe brushed and anodized, painted or anything, but I'm sure some people will like raw aluminium and it's of course quite useful if someone wants to mod and paint the case themselves anyway.

About the whole knock-off discussion: We don't have to talk about the C-SFX. As it was mentioned, this layout has been extremely popular recently and there is a multitude of cases on the market that use it. No big deal, this just a different implementation of the layout and only increases the options consumers can choose from.

The C-1 is a different thing, but it's clear to me that, while the inspiration came from the S4 Mini undoubtedly, the products have a very different focus in terms of aesthetic and use. Nobody, and I mean nobody, who bought the S4 Mini for its aesthetics will consider this case. The build and finish quality of the S4 Mini is superb, and attached to that is the great customer care that you only get from Josh himself. You can trust in his brand, while Catz is new on the market and will have to fight for recognition. The product itself differs from the S4 Mini in terms of layout and component support so much that it is a viable choice for consumers just on the basis of that.

In general, I don't like the idea that companies and brands build their whole reputation and market on a single product and then spend valuable resources on filing patents and defending that product, that they could otherwise use to improve it. This is bad for innovation in general and bad for the consumer. The mechanical keyboard market only started to get more interesting once Cherry didn't have the patent on their switch design anymore. Consumers now get a lot of choice about what switches they can use, and some even feel that clones like Gateron have a better feel to them. If Cherry was allowed to maintain their patent till the end of time, I wouldn't be able to type on a keyboard that feels like it does now. And what's even better, since the patent ran out, the mech market got an incredible surge once Cherry's patent ran out. They actually make more money now that everyone can copy their switches than they did before when they had a monopoly on it!

I hope that the Catz C-1 is only the first in a number of cases that will use a similar layout. This will increase market awareness for cases with external PSUs and hopefully lead to the production of external PSUs that are more suited to the requirements of a stationary PC build, which ultimately benefits the consumer.

 

[Ceros_X]

I get you want to look out for Josh, but honestly I would let him handle that as opposed to thread shitting all over someone's new company case thread. I noticed some similarities to the S4 Mini also, but I also noticed the differences immediately as well (especially the slot loaded drive and the cubes). The bigger one didn't remind me of the Sentry at all (the !nverse and the Sentry were much more similar IMO) and I actually think the wrap around bezel detracts from the looks of the cases as opposed to adding to it (mainly because of the gap between the bezel and the sidewall - it looks a little unfinished).

@amitoza I think you have some nice cases - can't wait to see what they look like powder coated! I think shipping to the US would be very high, sadly. Also, you should think about selling those corner cubes as a kit. Does the place you work for also offer prototyping services as @MarcParis mentioned?

 

[iFreilicht]

I think you have some nice cases - can't wait to see what they look like powder coated! I think shipping to the US would be very high, sadly.

Hm, maybe without the "unibody" bezel they could be flat-packed like the LZ7? Maybe that way shipping cost could be reduced.

 

[MarcParis]

Just to finish on patent. Patent are related to countries. Why EU market is more tolerated, because someone who want to protect his patent needs to attack in justice in every country of EU...it's taking time and money...and also, it's pretty rare in EU to forbid a sale..
Main example is Nespresso caps...finally with competition on caps, Nestle even managed to sell more of his nespresso brand.
You have also all waterblock-pump combo in Europe based on Alphacool (fractal design, be quiet used that technology for their aio)...where they don't even try in US due to Asetek case vs Swiftech (i'm still mad of that as swiftech are, by far, better than asetek ones)
Last famous case is Zenimax vs Facebook on occulus and mr carmack. As long as it was Occulus company with not a ton of money,,zenimax was cool...but once it was sold to facebook, for again a crasy amount of money, zenimax became aggressive and managed at the end to recover money from Facebook.

Patent violation is a true business and risk only in US....and only if you are rich lol

 

[Kmpkt]

Firstly @amitoza I'm sorry for being so aggressive in my commentary regarding your case. It is a personality flaw of mine to fly of the handle when I perceive an injustice and then backtrack after the fact (which I will proceed to do now). While I do think the aesthetic of your case (specifically the 5L variant) is very strongly influenced by that of the S4 mini, I can also understand why you would want to emulate that case.

Looking back at your design with a clearer mind, I can also appreciate the differences in construction, layout and function between your cases and the S4 Mini/Sentry to which I compared them. I didn't mean to shit on your intro thread and wish you the best of luck with developing, marketing and eventually selling your case. The care in construction and implementation of various ideas from elsewhere in the community has been well executed so far and I am sure the final product will be something worthy of this community and its members. Again, I am sorry for calling you out the way I did.

With respect to the community and what we are/aren't willing to tolerate, my views on intellectual property and what constitutes infringement of said property obviously varies from the prevailing opinion of the community. I will do my best to refrain from throwing the first stone on such matters in the future. I'd also like to pass along my apologies to anyone here that I may have offended as I certainly didn't set out to piss anyone off or give the impression that I am a massive asshole.

Kmpkt (ilovelampshade)

 

[CC Ricers]

First of, good job on the cases! I personally would like the panels to be finished in some way, maybe brushed and anodized, painted or anything, but I'm sure some people will like raw aluminium and it's of course quite useful if someone wants to mod and paint the case themselves anyway.

I could have sworn that I saw photos or renders of the cases with painted finishes in the thread that Catz posted on [H], but I can't find that thread anymore Maybe it was removed I guess.

EDIT: I found the thread cached by Google. Images of the renders still show up for me.

OTHER EDIT: for convenience I'm posting the renders here as the cached thread may not persist much longer, but the image host might.

 

[cadiguno]

First of all, great-looking case! I love the SFX particularly because it doesn't sacrifice on number of drives (like most 7L sff cases) albeit a bit bigger (at 8L).

A few questions:
1. Can you guarantee production time will be under 3 weeks? I live somewhere in the corner of the world, but have friends in the Netherlands who're going to visit here next month. So if I can get them to deliver the case to me, it'd be wonderful.

2. How are the temps inside the SFX case?

3. Does it come with a power button, and if it does what color is the LED?

 

[Gadgety]

Both cases look to be made from reassuringly sturdy material, and with nice fit. I like the inclusion of an optical drive slot for multimedia flexibility in an HTPC.

 

[Phuncz]

MOD BREAK

I've split off some of the patent discussion to another topic, as it deserves more discussion, but this topic shouldn't be the place to do it.

 

[TBLtoaster]

Does the price of both cases include the cost of powder coating, or will that add more to the price?

 

[amitoza]

Does the price of both cases include the cost of powder coating, or will that add more to the price?

Price include case, powder coating and Power Button.

First of all, great-looking case! I love the SFX particularly because it doesn't sacrifice on number of drives (like most 7L sff cases) albeit a bit bigger (at 8L).

A few questions:
1. Can you guarantee production time will be under 3 weeks? I live somewhere in the corner of the world, but have friends in the Netherlands who're going to visit here next month. So if I can get them to deliver the case to me, it'd be wonderful.

2. How are the temps inside the SFX case?

3. Does it come with a power button, and if it does what color is the LED?

1. 2 weeks minimum + shipping
2. I will show some graphs soon
3. White or tricolour R/G/B

 

[TBLtoaster]

Would you offer a price reduction if someone wanted bare metal?

 

[amitoza]

Would you offer a price reduction if someone wanted bare metal?

No problem - It'll be about 15€ less.

 

[fminus]

There seems a bit of excess room in the front. Is it possible to have it made not as deep? Remove the optical slot, and replace it with a usb port?

 

[iFreilicht]

Remove the optical slot, and replace it with a usb port?

Pretty sure the optical drive is a vital feature of the case.

 

[amitoza]

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