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SO if we are going to start seeing USB C on graphics cards, I wonder if we might start seeing mainstream desktop monitors with that as a connection option (thus far USB C monitors have ostensibly been designed for portable setups meant to be connected to laptops and tablets), and if/when some of them might also be getting power from that connection instead of having their own PSU (USB power delivery 2.0 allows for up to 100W)
FU@# F!@#ING YEAH ..........!!!!!!!!!!!
Pair it with this.
It has a pen, and the video shows that the pen can be used as a stand .
However I have seen no info to confirm the pen can be used on the screen.
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I hope so, it would further tidy up connectivity with displays that have built-in USB hubs. Powering the monitor through the GPU might just about be possible too in some situations, but there's probably too much variance in monitor power draw for that to be universally applicable. Even a 24W monitor means you now need to gather up an extra 2A from the PEG connectors on top of what the GPU itself needs (and some larger monitors can draw upwards of 60W!), and spec up the power delivery hardware on the card similarly to comply with USB Power delivery spec.
Yeah, I did already figure that, to enable powering the display off the video card, the video card is likely going to need an extra PEG connector just for that purpose.
On a side note, something I didn't initially consider that would definitely benefit from USB C on video cards: VR Headsets.
Right now VR headsets have to take power from the wall, and are connected to the PC through USB 3 for head tracking and other communication and HDMI for display, and this results in a bulky cable. Being able to use a single USB C cable to carry 2 displayport links, a USB 3 signal and the power would definitely help there (though I have to go back and check which version of DP has the requisite bandwidth)
Both the Rift and the Vive can be powered entirely form the host PC's USB bus (the Vive can also plug in a separate PSU to the link box if you're using USB accessories attached to the HMD, and/or or want to use the internal forward-facing camera or the DP-HDMI conversion in the Link Box).
The problem with using Type C is the same as you have today: maximum length while maintaining signal. The Vive - until recently - used a very bulky passive cable assembly, and the Rift uses a cable-tuning IC from Spectra7 with an integrated cable (the HMD-end connector is also from Spectra7, the Microchroma. Newer Vives also now use a thinner all-in-one cable with an cable-tuning IC, though maintain the multi-connector breakout at both ends. Both currently use HDMI for transport to the HMD itself, though transitioning to DP for later variants is not unlikely.
The Vive can take host power? Why didn't I know this?
Anyways Your mention of cable length is a good thing to note. I already knew about signal integrity issues with long cables, though I hadn't actually considered them when making the post. Luckily USB C allows for active cables, poweried through the Vconn pin, which allow for longer runs. I also hadn't known the Vive switched cables, my unit has the 3 cables fused together into a common insulator. Still, I stand by my claim that a single cable/connector solution would be nice to have, and I mentioned DP specifically because I don't believe it's possible to run HDMI and USB 3 over the same cable (If I am wrong let me know), while DP and MHL do allow for USB 3 and two display lanes.
Anyways as far as supporting VR is concerned, the other thing I'd like to see is for graphics cards to include a front panel connector. Being able to plug one cable into the front of your machine instead of reaching around the back to plug in multiple cables would be greatly appreciated.
Back on topic, though, where monitors are concerned, aside from the power thing I mentioned already, it's hard to find a mainstream monitor that doesn't have USB hub onboard, so being able to pass the USB over the same cable as the display signal on lower resolution/framerate monitors (ie. anything that requires low enough bandwidth to run on 1-2 links) is a boon. Anything to reduce cable spaghetti (also a reason I'm consistently annoyed Dell seems to be the only company that sells monitors with a DP out port).
Anyways Your mention of cable length is a good thing to note. I already knew about signal integrity issues with long cables, though I hadn't actually considered them when making the post. Luckily USB C allows for active cables, poweried through the Vconn pin, which allow for longer runs. I also hadn't known the Vive switched cables, my unit has the 3 cables fused together into a common insulator. Still, I stand by my claim that a single cable/connector solution would be nice to have, and I mentioned DP specifically because I don't believe it's possible to run HDMI and USB 3 over the same cable (If I am wrong let me know), while DP and MHL do allow for USB 3 and two display lanes.
Anyways as far as supporting VR is concerned, the other thing I'd like to see is for graphics cards to include a front panel connector. Being able to plug one cable into the front of your machine instead of reaching around the back to plug in multiple cables would be greatly appreciated.
Back on topic, though, where monitors are concerned, aside from the power thing I mentioned already, it's hard to find a mainstream monitor that doesn't have USB hub onboard, so being able to pass the USB over the same cable as the display signal on lower resolution/framerate monitors (ie. anything that requires low enough bandwidth to run on 1-2 links) is a boon. Anything to reduce cable spaghetti (also a reason I'm consistently annoyed Dell seems to be the only company that sells monitors with a DP out port).
It is, with a custom cable, which also combines USB 3.0 and HDMI, whereas Type C is limited to USB 2.0 and HDMI/DP due the the number of conductors available (USB3 can be packed into the DP stream, but I am unsure of the latency impact of doing so). It's also an active cable, which is what allows it to be thinner than normal for a long HDMI cable.
Yeah, but note the cable has two connectors on the host side.
As for latency, I don't see why running DP and USB through the same connection should affect that. The way USB-C Alt Mode works is by multiplexing the various signals onto the 4 TRX and 2 Sideband Use lanes. A full 4 lane DP connection will mux the lanes onto all four TRX lanes and the Aux channel onto the SBU pins. With a 2 lane configuration, it will mux only two DP lanes onto the connector along with the Aux channel and the two remaining TRX lanes will be muxed to the USB TX and RX lanes (note it's also possible to pass just a single DP lane along with the USB 3)
As for latency, I don't see why running DP and USB through the same connection should affect that. The way USB-C Alt Mode works is by multiplexing the various signals onto the 4 TRX and 2 Sideband Use lanes. A full 4 lane DP connection will mux the lanes onto all four TRX lanes and the Aux channel onto the SBU pins. With a 2 lane configuration, it will mux only two DP lanes onto the connector along with the Aux channel and the two remaining TRX lanes will be muxed to the USB TX and RX lanes (note it's also possible to pass just a single DP lane along with the USB 3)
If you're using a single DP lane to make way for USB 3.0, you don't have the video bandwidth for VR.
It actually might be enough if Display Stream Compression were used.
Regardless, as I mentioned, A USB C cable can share TWO DP lanes with a USB3 link, and that's enough bandwidth, at least for the current resolutions.
Not sure about optical (I think it allows for alternate media as long as end to end signal integrity and power delivery requirements are met, but don't quote me on that). I do know USB C is designed to allow for active copper cables which should allow for several meters of cable (as opposed to the passive cables that support 1 meter)
Yes, but you're limited to the pin layout of the connectors at each end.
DP1.4 is 8.1Gb/s per lane. By the time the next generation of HMDs rolls out (looking to be end of 2018 at earliest, more likely mid 2019) at least a doubling in panel density is reasonable to expect, as well as a bit-depth increase and resolution bump, and there's no chance DP1.5 will be both ratified and widely implemented by then (even DP1.4 has barely started rolling out). That's going to bust right out of dual-stream and need quad-stream, and compression is verboten for VR .
Though if Carmack's musing on alternate transports from the OC1 keynote play out, then it might be that Thunderbolt or similar is used instead, so displays can be addressed per-pixel rather than as whole panel refreshes. Native fibre transport might also be a solution to extending cable length if wireless continues to be unsuitable; none of the existing solutions are even close (things like TPCast are just reboxing existing solutions like SiBeam's WHD modules, which are not able to achieve the low link latencies required, and often introduce visible compression artefacts) and upcoming bespoke systems like Nitero or IMR are aimed at integration rather than end-user products,, and have yet to demonstrate cost effectiveness.
Imagine a mini 1050ti or 1060 having a usb-c out. Asus portable monitors might probably sell like hotcakes.
Nothing at all. It would also give the flexibility to use either Dual Type C (one for DP one for USB3) or separate USB type A and DP/mini-DP with adapters (and possible power injectors for the transceivers if necessary) for equipment lacking Type C connectors.
Are there SFF barebones systems or SFF MOBOs that currently have USB-C with Display Port Alt mode ?
I think only Intel's Skull Canyon. But it's useless due to it uses the internal intel gpu.
Even Zotac's ZBOXes do not have usb-c or displyport over usb-c. Their gpu(1060/1070/1080) use the classic HDMI/DP ports.
I do not know how the Mac Pro works. It has got two thunderbolt 3/usb-c ports and can send image to USB monitors but i do not know what gpu uses.
Even Zotac's ZBOXes do not have usb-c or displyport over usb-c. Their gpu(1060/1070/1080) use the classic HDMI/DP ports.
I do not know how the Mac Pro works. It has got two thunderbolt 3/usb-c ports and can send image to USB monitors but i do not know what gpu uses.
Thanks for that info, saves me a lot of money. Also explains why the Skull Canyon is the only device that can use my MB16AC Monitor directly via USB-C. This monitor only works with iGPU as long as video cards don't have USB-C connectors. The Iris Pro is Intels strongest iGPU, but it still falls far behind any dedicated cards.
The upcoming Hades Canyon NUC will come with an "integrated DGPU" that sits on the same DIE as the processor.
I wonder if that dedicated GPU will be able to drive DisplayPort Alt Mode, or if it will suffer from the same limitation as a PC with a dedicated GPU.
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