Two radiators possible?

[Grit]

I'm a current ncase M1 user. My system (Core i7 6700K and 1080 GTX, ITX motherboard and SFX PSU) is custom water cooled via a 240mm radiator (CPU and GPU). I mildly overclock and am mostly water cool to have a nearly silent system.

I'm upgrading my rig to a Core I7 9700K and 2080 Ti RTX and I'm concerned that a single 240mm radiator won't keep the system cool enough.

I've been looking at the Cerberus since before it was released. Despite all of my searching, I can't hardly find any references on people who have done a custom water cooled loop in their Cerberus cases. I'd really like some real-world insight.

• Will a 280mm fit well?
• How thick of a radiator can I install in the bottom with only a 2-slot GPU?
• Where, if anywhere, can I install a second radiator?
• Any thoughts/successes on where to mount a pump/res combo?
• Can the PSU be mounted in the top, front, right of the case, next to an ITX motherboard (if you are facing the front of the case) instead of across the front (as the website depicts)?

 

[VegetableStu]

• Will a 280mm fit well?
  if you're sticking to an ITX board, yes you can have one at the bottom
• How thick of a radiator can I install in the bottom with only a 2-slot GPU?
  pretty thick, if it's at the first slot o_o you have slightly above 80mm worth of height (including fans) to work with, although ideally you don't want the cooling assembly to be right against the GPU (in case the fans touches each other)
• Where, if anywhere, can I install a second radiator?
  it's either two 240mm rads (one at front one at the bottom with PSU on the rear; check combination for radiators interfering with each other) or one 280mm (bottom) and maybe squeeze a 120mm somewhere (side hinge or front, depending on PSU placement)
• Any thoughts/successes on where to mount a pump/res combo?
  so far I've seen people usually mounting it on the radiator with adapters. if anyone else has ideas do comment!
• Can the PSU be mounted in the top, front, right of the case, next to an ITX motherboard (if you are facing the front of the case) instead of across the front (as the website depicts)?
  sorry I don't get what you mean ,_, is it like how the M1 would mount an SFX PSU?

 

[VegetableStu]

actually let me look into the thread for the dual 240mm rad again. it's easier on the ATX Cerberus-X, but the last I remember it's pretty tight and specific to do in the mATX cerberus

EDIT: two 240 might be generally undoable. but if you count slim rads, you might be more able to squeeze two 240: one "regular" thickness, one XSPC TX240 Ultrathin Radiator

Also sanity check on GPU card length for clearance, especially when there's a rad at the front

 

[Grit]

Thanks for all the input!

I was looking at a thicker bottom mounted radiator to increase cooling capacity, but the thickness seems to run about ~54mm. Add 25mm fans and that's just nearly 80mm. I agree, I don't want to be super close to the GPU. I think I might be alright though because the water block on a 2080 ti really should keep the card around single-slot thickness, right? Can the case handle a thick 280mm in the bottom?

The radiator I was considering is 54mm x 153mm x 312mm.

I didn't even consider the GPU, since it's the nvidia card and not a custom PCB. It should mount in the top position with an ITX board, right?

I'm flexible on where to mount the PSU, though I'd envision the SFX PSU in the front/default location.

Speaking of which, the space to which I was referring to for possibly mounting the pump/res combo is the right wall of the case, just to the right of the ATX connector on the ITX motherboards. Just wondering if there's enough height from the graphics card AND enough width between the motherboard and the PSU? Of course, that will lead to come cable routing issues that I don't love.

 

[VegetableStu]

yeah it'll be fine if you're getting a waterblock for your GPU. you have a bit more to work with after that too
also for ITX boards, there's only ever one PCIe slot, so that's always the first slot (anywhere else and it's usually a larger form factor like mATX or DTX or ATX). that clarification was just for reference

The radiator I was considering is 54mm x 153mm x 312mm.

Hardwarelabs GTX 280?

I have to find a day to 100% check the position of the vents, but you might just barely clear that standoff there (circled)
EDIT: just to clarify: the fan has to be at the bottom of the rad. otherwise that rad will interfere with the outer clip sockets for the "front"-side panel
EDIT: I realised I'm missing a standoff in my diagram ( /)_(\ there's one in the middle at the bottom of the motherboard. the GTX 280mm would not clear that

the space to which I was referring to for possibly mounting the pump/res combo is the right wall of the case, just to the right of the ATX connector on the ITX motherboards. Just wondering if there's enough height from the graphics card AND enough width between the motherboard and the PSU? Of course, that will lead to come cable routing issues that I don't love.

yeah you might have to look into small pump-res combos. the area there should be blank, so you could make a few holes on that wall. try getting flat-top screws though, since there's a back-side panel on the other side. you might have about less than 89x176mm of width and height to work with (get something smaller than that, those are touching the outlines of the motherboard, the PSU and the GPU)

inner case width (perpendicular to the motherboard) is 163.67mm wall-to-wall

 

[Grit]

Thanks a ton for that! I could always look at the 240mm instead.

The EK pump/res combo I WANT to use would scrape by at 78mm wide by 158mm tall.

How "flat" of a screw do you think I need? As in how much clearance do you think there is between the back wall (where the motherboard mounts) and the side panel ?


Any experience or thoughts on exhausting hot air through the bottom and using intake from the sides or top?

 

[VegetableStu]

okay I just had a look at the manual. if EK hasn't changed screws, those might be around the allowance
the side panels will have some slight flex (it's natural, otherwise you can't unmount them!), so I'm guessing they should be able to accommodate those screws.

if you need numbers, in theory you'd have the thickness of the steel to work with (about 1.2mm), but that's assuming the side panel is 100% rigid

I'm looking up to see if anyone's done similar and this is the closest I could find. OP seem to have managed to close the "lid at the back" by not using the rubber dampers at the intended position
https://www.reddit.com/r/watercooling/comments/91goqy/cerberus_build_almost_complete/
https://www.reddit.com/r/sffpc/comments/91goc3/cerberus_build_almost_complete/

(if anyone's wondering how they got that radiator stack up there, the motherboard mounting has been hard modded to shift the entire thing one PCIe slot down)

EDIT: I have to mention on my previous comment: the fan has to be at the bottom of the rad. otherwise that rad will interfere with the outer clip sockets for the "front"-side panel
EDIT: I realised I'm missing a standoff in my diagram ( /)_(\ there's one in the middle at the bottom of the motherboard. the GTX 280mm would not clear that

 

[Grit]

I can't tell you how incredibly helpful all of your assistance is!

In looking at the pics I can find of the Cerberus, it looks like the motherboard stand-offs are removable? Also, it looks like the friction pins from the outside panel stick inside the case at the bottom? If so, would ANY 280 mm radiator fit?

If I go with either a 240 thick radiator OR a 280 thinner (30mm) radiator), could I get either a 120mm or 140mm fan in the front, below the PSU (including some space for the power cables coming out of the PSU)?

 

[VegetableStu]

In looking at the pics I can find of the Cerberus, it looks like the motherboard stand-offs are removable? Also, it looks like the friction pins from the outside panel stick inside the case at the bottom? If so, would ANY 280 mm radiator fit?

ahh no the standoffs are permernant, so if you want those removed that'll mean cutting them off

not all 280mm rads would fit (as mentioned the lowest standoff and the side panel sockets), but those around *140mm in width (i think EK ones?) would definitely clear

If I go with either a 240 thick radiator OR a 280 thinner (30mm) radiator), could I get either a 120mm or 140mm fan in the front, below the PSU (including some space for the power cables coming out of the PSU)?

it'll definitely be tight ._. a 120mm fan might fit there, but depending on the SFX-L power supply (where the cables exit) the cables might interfere. you'd have better luck with a regular SFX power supply.
(whether a rad would fit on there... I'll need to check)

(I'll see if I can get a diagram up later. in the middle of working on something. sorry ,_,)

EDIT: 140mm not 280mm pleh

 

[Grit]

No apologies necessary! I'm grateful for any and all of your help!

 

[Grit]

How thick/sturdy is that back wall where the motherboard mounts? I'm just wondering if it has flex to it or is sturdy enough to mount a pump/res combo directly to it?

 

[VegetableStu]

it'll definitely be tight ._. a 120mm fan might fit there, but depending on the SFX-L power supply (where the cables exit) the cables might interfere. you'd have better luck with a regular SFX power supply.

yeah, it'll clear most of the time. the lower image has the cable on the row nearer to the front panel

(whether a rad would fit on there... I'll need to check)

(redrawing the vents after looking at that image, LOL ,_, turns out I copy pasted the bottom vents and thought that'll do)

How thick/sturdy is that back wall where the motherboard mounts? I'm just wondering if it has flex to it or is sturdy enough to mount a pump/res combo directly to it?

it's not as flexible as the aluminium outer panels, and it's also held up by the frame. it's not quite easy to figure out the local flexing when I press it with a finger (like is it the entire thing flexing or is it the space between the motherboard area and the SSD/PSU area flexing).

I'd trust it for now? I might bring that question up when the guy on reddit updates though, because I'm equally curious o_o

(it's easier to feel the flex on the vents, but yeah that's only because they're already cut out. don't think I can trust an ATX-sized power supply mounted by its fans on it though)

 

[Grit]

Hey VegetableStu,

I'm running out of time (new baby + 2 boys) and I could really use some more help, if you can.

I'm hoping to squeeze a 240mm or 280mm rad (30 mm thick) with 25mm fans AND at least one other 120mm x 30mm rad with a 25mm fan. OR do a 240mm or 280mm on the bottom with fans on both sides of the radiator (push/pull).

I'm also REALLY hoping to keep the SFX PSU up front, and that EK D5 small res/pump between an ITX board and the PSU. I'm also willing to move to a Cerberus X case if that's what makes it happen (too bad I can't do a vertical GPU above a bottom radiator!). I also want to add two 120mm fans in the top for intake.

Can you tell me what my options are for where I can mount the radiators AND if the top fans are a problem?

Thanks!

 

[VegetableStu]

I'm hoping to squeeze a 240mm or 280mm rad (30 mm thick) with 25mm fans AND at least one other 120mm x 30mm rad with a 25mm fan.

(30mm sounds like alphacool NexXxos ST30?)
yeah uhh if you're going for a 280 at the bottom, 120mm/240mm radiators on the front is out of the question. (280mm rads at the front is impossible on the mATX Cerberus)

also it's pretty hard for a 120mmx30mm rad to go there. Sorry to bring it up again, but the XSPC slim rad would be anyone's best bet at doing a second stack on the front

(alternatively you could try a slim 120x15mm fan with the 30mm alphacool rad, but it wouldn't match 25mm thick fans optimised for static pressure. noctua's A12x15 performs in the same ballpark as 25mm thick airflow fans through a rad though (but not many like the sound it makes at full tilt))

(general feeling is stronger 25mm fans cool better than thicker rads when it comes to the same combined thickness)

OR do a 240mm or 280mm on the bottom with fans on both sides of the radiator (push/pull).

This is more doable; you'd have about 148mm of radiator width to work with (anyone else reading: bottom fans let the rad clear the panel clips. width is right up against the motherboard standoff) and about 84mm/107mm (PCIe standard dual-slot outline / EKWB single slot waterblock) of stacking thickness to go under the GPU, which is about 34mm/57mm of radiator after 2x25mm of fans (keep in mind these numbers are right about touching the 2 or 1 slot GPU itself, so consider going a bit under)

(above is for 280mm rads. numbers for 240mm rads: 155mm of radiator width, same total thickness)

let me know which 280mm rad you're looking into. I'll see if I can draw one up quickly

I'm also REALLY hoping to keep the SFX PSU up front, and that EK D5 small res/pump between an ITX board and the PSU. I'm also willing to move to a Cerberus X case if that's what makes it happen

yeah refer to the previous comment on mounting the res on the chassis panel. you should really do fine if you're using a similar combo res as that OP of the photo.

Go for a Cerberus X if you want dual 280mm radiators (or a 280mm at the bottom with both a single-fan radiator and a PSU on the front), but the amount of reservoir space we're looking at would be the same.

I also want to add two 120mm fans in the top for intake.

look for this when ordering:

someone used that to mount a single 120x25mm fan at the top over the motherboard VRM coolers (shifted off-center most away from the motherboard) but I can't recall exactly where was the picture posted ,_,
you might have problems keeping the power chord extender mounted onto the plate if you use two, unless you don't mind it hanging it all out (wait, you have kids! maybe don't do this!) use a single 120mm fan if you want to mount the extension chord onto the plate

EDIT: so far (in this comment) this includes the use of the front SFX PSU mounting bracket, so you should still do fine (no need for extraordinary mounting methods like mounting the PSU by the fans)

 

[TheHig]

Looking to go with 2x 240mm rads In my CerbX so chiming in.

Get the X even with your itx board. The 9700k and 2080ti are hot components.

280 or 240mm rad on bottom and 240 mm front. Mount sfx psu in the rear mount. Pump/res can go between mobo and front rad on top above the gpu?

Gpu needs to be reference length for front rad to work.
Fan at top probably needed for exhaust. 120mm x15mm noctua or other slim fan.

Pic with Corsair 240 aio at front in mine.

https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/cerberus-x-rebuild.8431/#post-119291

 

[VegetableStu]

yeah this escaped me for some reason, LOL ,_,
if you're okay with having the SFX PSU at the back, this is much MUCH easier

Get the X even with your itx board. The 9700k and 2080ti are hot components.

280 or 240mm rad on bottom and 240 mm front. Mount sfx psu in the rear mount. Pump/res can go between mobo and front rad on top above the gpu?

 

[Grit]

Thanks again! I threw a LOT into that question because I want to order the case today so I can work on it over the weekend.

I'm open to radiator opinions. I've pulled most of my radiator data from xtremerigs.net and it seems that Hardware Labs does the best in 30mm radiator thickness with ~1350 rpm fans (I'm going for low noise more than overclocking).

Now that I'm not exhausted, I'll clarify what I'm planning/hoping to do.

Option 1 - Cerberus case with 280 mm bottom radiator with fans on both sides
Option 2 - Cerberus case with 240 mm bottom radiator with fans on one side + thin radiator and thin fan in front.
Option 3 - Cerberus X case with 280 mm bottom radiator with fans on one side + 140mm radiator in front with fans on one side
Option 4 - Cerberus X case with 240 mm bottom radiator with fans on one side + 240mm radiator in front with fans on one side

In all options:

• I'd prefer to keep the side panel free (PSU in front, no fans) for both ease of access for maintenance as well as as aesthetics/display.
• I want radiator fans to exhaust
• I want at least two 120mm fans for intake
• I want to keep the noise as low as possible.
• I'd prefer the smaller case, but I'm willing to go with the larger case if it means making all the rest of my wish list work.

 

[VegetableStu]

oh hardwarelabs. hang on...

 

[VegetableStu]

okay hardwarelabs GTS series...

• Option 1 - Cerberus case with 280 mm bottom radiator with fans on both sides
  
  
  
  Interference: lowest motherboard standoff (marked) radiator width is longer than 148mm (hardwarelabs GTS 280 is 159mm)
  either use a radiator with a smaller width, or if you don't forsee using an mATX board you can irreversibly cut that standoff away
  
  
• Option 2 - Cerberus case with 240 mm bottom radiator with fans on one side + thin radiator and thin fan in front.
  
  
  
  
  
• Option 3 - Cerberus X case with 280 mm bottom radiator with fans on one side + 140mm radiator in front with fans on one side
  
  
  
  Interference: lowest motherboard standoffs (marked) radiator width is longer than 148mm (hardwarelabs GTS 280 is 159mm)
  either use a radiator with a smaller width, or if you don't forsee using an ATX board you can irreversibly cut those standoffs away
  
• Option 4 - Cerberus X case with 240 mm bottom radiator with fans on one side + 240mm radiator in front with fans on one side
  
  

I just remembered after making those diagrams that you want the rads to exhaust out of the case ,_, for options 2 and 4 you could flip the fan and rads (pushing into the rads are easier), but if you're going for 1 or 3 you HAVE to look for another 280mm radiator with a width shorter than 144mm because it'll interfere with the side panel clips

as for two 120mm intake fans...

3 possible positions on the top so far (if you're going for the windowed panel then you'd have just the top two (and remove the side hinge))

by the way, if you're getting the 2080 waterblock from EK, keep in mind that the RGB strip at the tail end interferes with the front rads, so you might not be able to use it

 

[loader963]

Looking to go with 2x 240mm rads In my CerbX so chiming in.

Get the X even with your itx board. The 9700k and 2080ti are hot components.

280 or 240mm rad on bottom and 240 mm front. Mount sfx psu in the rear mount. Pump/res can go between mobo and front rad on top above the gpu?

Gpu needs to be reference length for front rad to work.
Fan at top probably needed for exhaust. 120mm x15mm noctua or other slim fan.

Pic with Corsair 240 aio at front in mine.

https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/cerberus-x-rebuild.8431/#post-119291

What the man said! If there is no need for the shorter case and you want to watercool, I think it’s an easy choice to go to the X model. Also, if you are running dual rad setups, most WC companies have pump to fan adapter brackets that you can easily mount to the fans and rads. But this does make you go with a rear mount psu.

Edit: Also, for options 2 to 4, I don’t see how you could keep a front psu and have room for a 120mm rad plus pump/res, let alone a 240mm rad.