Simply NUC, a vendor leaning heavily on the Intel NUC form factor, has unveiled their P360 Ultra, a massively upgradeable SFF system, with support for discrete graphics cards. These systems, starting at US$1699 are now available for preorder.
These systems support up to 128GB of DDR5 ECC memory across 4 DIMM slots, a Gen 4 PCIex16 slot, a Gen 3 PCIex4 slot, dual M.2 Gen 4 slots, as well as a pair of ethernet ports – 1 each 2.5Gb and 1.0Gb.
CPU options are the Intel Core i9 16C (8P+8E)/24T processor in the NUC12UTv9, or a Intel Core i7 12C (8P+4E)/20T, in their NUC12UTv7. Standard, both are spec’d with a 512GB PCIe SSD and 16GB DDR5 memory.
GPU Options include the NVIDIA T400 4GB, NVIDIA T1000 8GB or the NVIDIA RTX A2000 12GB.
Measuring in at 87 x 223 x 202 mm, or 3.9L, this offers the ability to be built into a dense little powerhouse.

 
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Shrink Ray Wielder
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Here's a good review about the Thinkstation P360 Ultra:


PS: Lenovo now even offers an RTX A5000 (mobile) GPU upgrade via their own shop (for +EUR 3070,-)

 
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scatterforce

Master of Cramming
May 21, 2018
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No A4000 SFF option? Lame.
The RTX A5000 mobile that Lenovo is selling has the same cuda core count (6144) as the newer A4000 SFF. They are both based on the 104 die, just different generations and ram configurations. The A4000 SFF has a 160bit bus and a total of ten 2 GB chips for 20 GB of VRAM. The A5000 laptop part has a 256bit bus with eight 2 GB chips for 16 GB of VRAM.

The newer part should be more power efficient, but the A5000 might be more performant if it is allowed it's maximum 165 watt TDP. I can't tell if there is an external power source or not, and pictures are lacking.
 

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Shrink Ray Wielder
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Just found another review including Timespy scores for the Mobile A5000 Lenovo is offering with the P360... seems performance is very similar to the RTX 4000 ADA with about 10300 GPU points...


but anyway, I wouldn't spend EUR 3000+ for that upgrade XD
 

bingsoo

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Feb 8, 2023
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It seems like it's possible to get a second-hand RTX A5000 laptop card at ~$600 on eBay (look up NJ5ND). Does that change your mind about upgrades @REVOCCASES 😏?

In any case, I initially wasn't able to figure out what the interface is to the motherboard for that card. I don't see either the MXM interface or a PCIe x16 bus. Later, I found in some photos a connector labelled DGFF (Dell Graphics Form Factor). Proprietary always sucks, but any way to mod these Dell RTX A5000 cards into standard interfaces or make use of DGFF?

Separately, this raises the question of what interface is in use in the P360 Ultra and if the RTX A5000 mobile card with standard interfaces (e.g. MXM/PCIe) exists.
 
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REVOCCASES

Shrink Ray Wielder
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It seems like it's possible to get a second-hand RTX A5000 laptop card at ~$600 on eBay (look up NJ5ND). Does that change your mind about upgrades @REVOCCASES 😏?

In any case, I initially wasn't able to figure out what the interface is to the motherboard for that card. I don't see either the MXM interface or a PCIe x16 bus. Later, I found in some photos a connector labelled DGFF (Dell Graphics Form Factor). Proprietary always sucks, but any way to mod these Dell RTX A5000 cards into standard interfaces or make use of DGFF?

Separately, this raises the question of what interface is in use in the P360 Ultra and if the RTX A5000 mobile card with standard interfaces (e.g. MXM/PCIe) exists.

I don't think LENOVO would use a DELL specific interface / form format for their system... ;)

here is a picture of the custom A5000 they are using:

1685354488355.png

if you order the P360 with a "normal" graphics card, like the A2000, it will come with a small riser card and provides a usual PCIe 16x slot... so you could still upgrade to an RTX 4000 SFF ADA later down the road

PS: I remember @gurywah tried something with the DGFF GPUs but since he's MIA since ~2 years, I don't know if he actually succeeded
 
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Gehringerj

X299 Supporter
Oct 1, 2018
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whats about the support for intel s 13th gen cpus? Who would buy a last gen Workstation for that kind of money...? 13th gen makes more sense for power efficient workstations (i9 with 16 low power cores)
 

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Shrink Ray Wielder
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m-i-c-k-e-y

Average Stuffer
Feb 13, 2018
62
63
Just waiting for the 13th gen BIOS support. Have mine since last October 2022. Pretty maxed out already. Added a QNAP QM2-2P10G1TB on its PCE 8X slot for additional 10GBE port and two M.2 2280 NVME. Once I have the BIOS for the 13th gen, will upgrade also for the RTC 4000 SFF and another two M.2 NVME drives (will move the Samsung drive to another build).

Edit: Forgot to mention that the 230W PS just won't do. So, upgraded to 300W.

Configuration:


Internals:

 
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Nilithium

Chassis Packer
Jul 6, 2023
16
4
The RTX A5000 mobile that Lenovo is selling has the same cuda core count (6144) as the newer A4000 SFF. They are both based on the 104 die, just different generations and ram configurations. The A4000 SFF has a 160bit bus and a total of ten 2 GB chips for 20 GB of VRAM. The A5000 laptop part has a 256bit bus with eight 2 GB chips for 16 GB of VRAM.

The newer part should be more power efficient, but the A5000 might be more performant if it is allowed it's maximum 165 watt TDP. I can't tell if there is an external power source or not, and pictures are lacking.
Not quite. In the whitepapers, it says the GPU has a max TDP of 115W. At that power budget, the newer RTX 4000 SFF would come away the victor, I think.

Just waiting for the 13th gen BIOS support. Have mine since last October 2022. Pretty maxed out already. Added a QNAP QM2-2P10G1TB on its PCE 8X slot for additional 10GBE port and two M.2 2280 NVME. Once I have the BIOS for the 13th gen, will upgrade also for the RTC 4000 SFF and another two M.2 NVME drives (will move the Samsung drive to another build).

Edit: Forgot to mention that the 230W PS just won't do. So, upgraded to 300W.

Configuration:


Internals:

Careful now, that x8 slot is only physical. The whitepapers outline that the slot is only 3.0 x4 electrical, which meshes perfectly with an Optane SSD like the 900/905p.

Hang on a minute: Doesn't Lenovo manufacture the exact same product, just without the Thinkstation badge? Did they pay for the ODM rights for it?
 
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m-i-c-k-e-y

Average Stuffer
Feb 13, 2018
62
63
Careful now, that x8 slot is only physical. The whitepapers outline that the slot is only 3.0 x4 electrical, which meshes perfectly with an Optane SSD like the 900/905p.

No problems. The QNAP QM2-2P10G1TB is also PCIE Gen 3 and M.2 are solely for backup storage.
 

bingsoo

Cable Smoosher
Feb 8, 2023
12
6
It seems like it's possible to get a second-hand RTX A5000 laptop card at ~$600 on eBay (look up NJ5ND). Does that change your mind about upgrades @REVOCCASES 😏?

In any case, I initially wasn't able to figure out what the interface is to the motherboard for that card. I don't see either the MXM interface or a PCIe x16 bus. Later, I found in some photos a connector labelled DGFF (Dell Graphics Form Factor). Proprietary always sucks, but any way to mod these Dell RTX A5000 cards into standard interfaces or make use of DGFF?

Separately, this raises the question of what interface is in use in the P360 Ultra and if the RTX A5000 mobile card with standard interfaces (e.g. MXM/PCIe) exists.

Shortly after I posted this last year, my itchy hands have gotten myself a P360 Ultra I totally do not need (already have several unused PCs lying around) because I really wanted the "SFF" A5000 GPU. I have two questions regarding switching out the GPU.

if you order the P360 with a "normal" graphics card, like the A2000, it will come with a small riser card and provides a usual PCIe 16x slot... so you could still upgrade to an RTX 4000 SFF ADA later down the road
  1. I am wondering if anybody here knows if I have to purchase a PCIe riser if I would like to switch out the A5000 MXM for a A2000? I should be able to figure this out myself, but it will take me a while because I'm currently too busy to teardown the device. If so, does anyone have links to the product?
  2. On the flip side, what do I need to do to install the A5000 MXM on a standard non-proprietary system via PCIe? Do I need to purchase an interface card? Once again, links appreciated.
Finally, seeing that the W680 chipset supports 13th and 14th Gen processors, I'm curious about another two questions about the CPU.
  1. Has Lenovo released the BIOS for those versions for the P360 Ultra and has anyone tried upgrading their CPUs? @m-i-c-k-e-y, have you tried this?
  2. Given that both P360 Ultra and P3 Ultra uses the same chipset, I wonder if the motherboard was upgraded going from the P360 to the P3. If so, what is better in the latter?
 
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bingsoo

Cable Smoosher
Feb 8, 2023
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