SFF Houses

iFreilicht

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Have you ever heard of "tiny houses"? I found these videos yesterday, and it's pretty much the incorporation of SFF in living.

SFF:


uSFF:


And, for the uCFF crowd:


I so want a tiny house now.

[Edit] An introduction to SFF houses by @Ceros_X

SFF House: Smallest of closets

It came to light in the General Thread that just as many of us share a passion for smaller, more space efficient computers, a lot of us are also at least passingly interested in small living spaces. This is generally referred to as the 'Tiny House movement’ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiny_house_movement, and while somewhat of a fringe movement at its conception it has lately been gaining increasing exposure and momentum.

As with computers, what exactly constitutes a 'tiny' house is up for interpretation. The general consensus seems to be a house between 100-400 square feet, with some insisting that 500 square or less qualifies. Interestingly, just as in the Intel developer spec for computer form factors, below average size houses are segmented into different groups based on size: tiny houses (400 sq feet or less) and small houses (400-1000 sq feet). For our purposes, it doesn't really matter much - much as with SFF PCs, if you consider it small, that's all that matters.

Why Tiny Houses?
There are a lot of converging interests and philosophies that converge on the tiny house movement. For some, tiny homes are seen as a way of economically owning a home. For others, it may be about minimizing their environmental impact and carbon footprint, upcycling, etc. To some, it may be more of a minimalist philosophy or about having the freedom to travel.

Tiny houses are usually split up into two categories - tiny houses built on a foundation and tiny houses that are built to be mobile (either easily moved, such as a container house , or on wheels/a trailer). This is by no means a definitive split, but much like computer systems are predominantly split among AMD and Intel camps, tiny houses are often split between mobile and non-mobile.

Tiny Homes - Mobile:
Made to be easily moved, tiny houses can often be built on wheels for reasons other than mobility. A prime example of this is that there are different regulations (zoning codes, building codes, etc) for mobile dwellings than there are for houses. For example, some areas have areas have local ordinances that dictate a house must be over 1,000 square feet - usually these regulations are created in an attempt to keep property values high.

There are many different types of vehicles in this area:
Car/Van Dwelling - Living out of your vehicle (unconverted)
Van conversions
Skoolies
Tiny House (on trailers)

Tiny House - Stationary:
Stationary Tiny houses aren't designed to be easily moved (with the possible exception of container houses, by virtue of being easily loaded as cargo). The tiny houses listed below cover some of the more popular types and build styles, although there are too many to list.

Wooden framed
Container house
Umbrella (underground housing)
Yurt
Straw -bale construction

As you can see, there is some eco/conservation crossover. While not all straw-bale housing will be tiny house, the majority of them will be pretty small. Etc.

RVs vs Tiny Houses:
Recreational Vehicles (RVs) are designed with mobility in mind. They are often built with materials that make them extremely light weight, however they are much harder to customize and do it yourself (although you do find some people refurbing old RVs).

This chart (source) sums up the Pros and Cons of each:

Main Pros/Cons of Living in a Tiny House
Pros
  • Stick-built “homey” feeling and look.
  • Feels a lot better than living in a travel trailer or other kind of RV.
  • You can still pretty easily (in most cases) move it to another location when you want to move.
  • You can build it exactly how you want it.
  • If you’re into living healthy you can design/build it free of toxic materials.

Cons
  • Weights a lot more than most RVs so it’s not really fun (or cheap) to tow.
  • They’re also not very aerodynamic so not the best for you if you want to travel a lot with it.
  • They’re pretty challenging to find a place to park and live in (but it’s possible).
  • Tiny homes attract a lot of attention on the road.
Main Pros/Cons of RV Living
Pros
  • Aerodynamic and lightweight compared to tiny houses.
  • Easier to get around in so great if you want to travel.
  • Blends in with other travelers so doesn’t attract too much attention compared to a stick built house on wheels.
Cons
  • Doesn’t look and feel like “home” as much.
  • Not as great for full time living (needs more insulation, etc.)
  • Materials inside many times contain toxic materials and off gassing.

The key 'Con' to note for the RV is that they are often not equipped with insulation to handle snowy winters. The key Pro is much better support (RV camp grounds) makes it easy to find a place to park, and being lighter and more aerodynamic makes it easier to tow. I'm not saying RVs aren't Tiny Houses, just differentiating the two types.

Problems with Tiny Houses:
Now that we've given the run down, there are of course drawbacks to living in a tiny house. Although a tiny house can be cheap, you may often find that prebuilt tiny homes can be more expensive per square foot than a 'small' house. While there are thousands of home builders, tiny home builders are much more limited in quantity (although the numbers of builders are increasing) so there isn't as much competition. In the US it isn't uncommon to shop for tiny homes out of state if the pickings are slim in your area. Another issue can be financing - because many tiny homes are built on wheels to escape the 'house' classification, many lending institutions won't let you take out a home loan to purchase a tiny house. This is improving (through manufacture financing, peer to peer loans, etc) but you may find yourself looking at financing via credit card or being forced to take out an RV loan (which comes with taxes and higher interest rates than normal). If you go the fixed foundation route then you will find yourself needing things like sewer, passing zoning and building codes, etc in order to get a loan. There is also the price of land to consider.

Another issue can be specialized appliances. If you are running off of solar then looking for DC-based appliances can save you energy but cost a lot - most of us know the power inefficiencies of having to convert from AC to DC. You may find yourself looking at portable appliances, marine or camper appliances, etc - most of these items are more expensive than their standard AC counter parts. Solar power, while having come down in many years can still be very expensive to get started when you add in 100+ watt panels, battery banks, power inverters, etc.

Finding a place to park can be problematic as well. Some RV parks will not let you park a tiny home. Some places will not have ready access to septic hookups (and you may not want to go with a composting toilet!).

This is just a brief introduction to Tiny Houses, if you have information to add to the OP feel free to message me with it and we'll look at adding it. Thanks for reading!
 
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iFreilicht

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Yeah I thought about that as well. Even something like the LZ7 would probably seem like a waste of space in such an environment. Best bet is to mount it higher up on the wall. Also, if you want to live off solar, you'll really have to cut down on the power of your rig, so ideally you'd power it via DC directly, skipping AC/DC conversion. Using a high-end gaming laptop is probably better than having an actual PC as well.
 
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PlayfulPhoenix

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lol, it'd make a SFF PC look normal size :p

 

Kmpkt

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Yeah I've been looking at tiny houses as well as lane houses for a long time. I'm a huge fan of these guys who make lane houses in Vancouver, BC:

https://www.smallworks.ca

I reckon one of these would be amazing for retiring in after the kids grow up. Rent out the main house to fund retirement travel and live in the lane house.
 
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iFreilicht

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I reckon one of these would be amazing for retiring in after the kids grow up. Rent out the main house to fund retirement travel and live in the lane house.

Very good point. For me as a student I can imagine those being a way to stop paying rent. Even when you let builders make most of the house (which I absolutely would for the shell because fuck-ups can be expensive there), it will easily be below 60k, about half of the cheapest apartment I could get in the vicinity of this city, and that'd be a pretty bad one that would probably require a lot of renovation work. 60k or less for a brand new home that's exactly to my requirements is an absolute bargain.
 

EdZ

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Living in a tiny house (AKA average London residence), I long for more volume.
 

Ceros_X

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The wife and I have watched quite a few Tiny House Hunter episodes lol. Also Tiny House Nation, etc. Onice the kid(s) are grown, maybe!
 
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iFreilicht

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Living in a tiny house (AKA average London residence)

You really can't make that very efficient though. Having a sleeping loft in tiny homes frees up a lot of space, but there are other solutions you can implement that wouldn't be feasible in an apartment that you're renting. I can't drill stuff into the walls here, so there's no way I could mount all of my PC hardware to that. But, in a tiny house, I could do that, put my desk on castors and move it out into the middle of the room when I need a dedicated table, for example if people are over.

I do understand that this might not be for everyone, though :)

The wife and I have watched quite a few Tiny House Hunter episodes lol. Also Tiny House Nation, etc. Onice the kid(s) are grown, maybe!

Those seem to be quite popular shows from what I've heard. I've actually seen a few house tours from people with one kid now, but I could imagine that having two or three would make this a whole lot more complicated. Actually, for a very small child this could be quite a cool environment to grow up in. One point I've seen mentioned is that parents that take a step like this often have more time for their children in the first place because mortgage is much lower or not existent at all, so that's an additional plus.
 

Ceros_X

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Those seem to be quite popular shows from what I've heard. I've actually seen a few house tours from people with one kid now, but I could imagine that having two or three would make this a whole lot more complicated. Actually, for a very small child this could be quite a cool environment to grow up in. One point I've seen mentioned is that parents that take a step like this often have more time for their children in the first place because mortgage is much lower or not existent at all, so that's an additional plus.

Yeah. Although once a kid hits puberty they need their own room. We've seen a couple shows where they want to jam a family of 5 in 200 square feet - no thanks!

I actually spent about a year or so growing up in a small RV, eating raviolis out of a can and it wasn't horrendous or anything (2 kids, 2 grownups). I think SFF living is most often about economic advantage over a true desire to go tiny, however.

Although, this is the most efficent use of space:

 

iFreilicht

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Yeah. Although once a kid hits puberty they need their own room.

Build a super-tiny house next to yours :) But yeah, I totally agree.

I think SFF living is most often about economic advantage over a true desire to go tiny, however.

Hm, maybe. I mean the economic advantage is huge, and with that comes more spare time or more money to travel, the ability to get a very individual home way before you'd be able to afford a big house, the ability to live alone for a price similar or lower to flat-sharing, but I think an additional part is that it fits a certain mindset.

Downsizing your living isn't only a movement in housing itself, but also reducing your carbon footprint, using resources more consciously, sharing resources with others or limiting the amount of things you own. And tiny houses incorporate all of that. They kind of force you to think about all of those things, and I think that can be very valuable, especially when you're still young and need to learn the value of stuff.

Think about our grandparents that grew up in war, where they had to ration every single bit. They take nothing for granted, and are thankful for the luxuries that they have. I don't know shit about that. I grew up having pretty much everything you could wish for. Right now, I shower about 20 minutes a day, 10 in the morning, 10 in the evening, just because I like. I don't really care about the power efficiency of my PC or my lamps or any of that because there's no tangible lack of those things, ever. And I think I should know those things, get a feel for how much I'm actually using and wasting regularly.

Also, it gives a lot of freedom when you want to move. If you build your tiny house on a trailer, moving takes almost no effort except finding a place to park it on legally.

And I'm German. I love efficient things and god damn if those tiny houses aren't anything but that.

Although, this is the most efficent use of space:

Well technically, yeah, but you're can't really live in it nicely, can you. :) The cool thing about tiny houses to me is that you could live in them for years. They really are houses, not RVs/campers.
 

Kmpkt

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I think the official second wing of Minutiae Inc. needs to be dedicated to tiny homes and its enthusiast community. You could probably salvage the existing logo by just slapping a roof on the Escher cube to save on development budget.
 

jØrd

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this is a great talk on tiny housing, doing it on a budget, etc, etc

 
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Ceros_X

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I feel like we should have a branch off Tiny House thread, there seems to be a lot of interest in it. Thoughts?

this is a great talk on tiny housing, doing it on a budget, etc, etc


Nice! I really like shipping container houses over most TH builds, they really appeal to me conceptually and I like them ascetically. I have seen they can often be more challenging to build in than they look. The one thing I have learned about DIY tiny houses is that everyone drastically underestimates the time it will take to complete them - they plan for 1-2 months, or maybe even 3 and then 6 months to a year later they are still working on it.


Build a super-tiny house next to yours :) But yeah, I totally agree.

Hm, maybe. I mean the economic advantage is huge, and with that comes more spare time or more money to travel, the ability to get a very individual home way before you'd be able to afford a big house, the ability to live alone for a price similar or lower to flat-sharing, but I think an additional part is that it fits a certain mindset.

Downsizing your living isn't only a movement in housing itself, but also reducing your carbon footprint, using resources more consciously, sharing resources with others or limiting the amount of things you own. And tiny houses incorporate all of that. They kind of force you to think about all of those things, and I think that can be very valuable, especially when you're still young and need to learn the value of stuff.

I am most definitely not a person who places any importance on minimizing my carbon foot print or power consumption, so I sometimes tend to skip over that motivation in others. I have seen a large percentage of people who go tiny for that reason - they take pleasure in upcycling many items, etc. There are others who get into it because they want to live somewhere debt free - there are many people in the US whose mortage payment is much bigger than anything else in their life, even the expense of food. Their desire to eliminate that and eliminate debt are what almost half of tiny house dwellers I have seen desire.

The portability can be extremely nice, but many TH are built on wheels to escape building codes (storm ratings, electrical codes, etc) vs being truly portable. To be road legal in the US there are many constraints (limited width and a certain length, max weight that can be towed with a regular drivers license, etc). Portable houses (in the hook up and tow them sense) usually must be a dedicated thing that is started in the planning phases to keep the weight under 10,000 lbs etc. The other thing a lot of people don't account for is having to utilize a large truck (which are usually pretty expensive in their own right, easily $25-30k+) to move it, which can mean ditching your smaller gas friendly car. A good portion of TH can't even be legally towed by a normal truck and get into needing someone with a commercial drivers license to move them, which cuts into the mobility of it.

Finding a spot to park your TH can also be problematic - much like living out of an SUV :D. If you're using a composting toilet this is easier (somewhat) but if you are tied to a septic system then you're looking at an RV lot or a mobile home pad, and those can be a decent chunk of change per month many people don't plan for initially. If you have land, then it is fine, but many times you could get the same cost savings (or even more, factoring in expensive mini-DC only appliances) by planning a small house from the beginning - hay houses, packed earth, etc.

I think part of the appeal to me, personally, is the thought of being able to simplify your life by reducing the amount of clutter and possessions you own. It is very appealing to me to be able to count all of your possessions up and not need a series of tabbed spreadsheets :V



Build a super-tiny house next to yours :) But yeah, I totally agree.
Think about our grandparents that grew up in war, where they had to ration every single bit. They take nothing for granted, and are thankful for the luxuries that they have. I don't know shit about that. I grew up having pretty much everything you could wish for. Right now, I shower about 20 minutes a day, 10 in the morning, 10 in the evening, just because I like. I don't really care about the power efficiency of my PC or my lamps or any of that because there's no tangible lack of those things, ever. And I think I should know those things, get a feel for how much I'm actually using and wasting regularly.

I agree here 100%. People who lived through the Great Depression here had a much different mind set. I grew up in a household that was well under the poverty line for a lot of my child hood, and I am always grateful for the perspective it gave me on how much money you really need to live, and being thankful for the amount of money I make in the military (even if we bitch about it :V). Nothing like coming home on leave and being able to take your parents out for dinner because you make more than they do.

From the SFF living perspective, I think I have a pretty good exposure to that.. I already mentioned living in an RV for a year+, have done a mobile home several times, and in the military SFF living is a way of life! By order (if you're curious) you get like 90 square foot per person, usually resulting in 2-3 per 200 square foot room with a shared bathroom for the first couple years.

Random barracks room video:
]

On a 6 month deployment, it is a lot smaller:

20 man tent:


Coffin racks on ship:

That said, I don't mind going super tiny but after having a 2,000 square foot house, having the room 'to build in' is nice too!
 
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Ceros_X

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I'll do an OP if there is enough interest in it to warrant a thread ( or second wing of Minutiae Inc. :D)
 

Phuncz

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Yeah, good idea! MOOOOODS!
Yes yes it took a while, Windows reinstall and whatnot :)

Semi-relevant, I'm right at the start of a housing project (detailing sketches, looking for land, researching building materials) and while I'm not looking into living small, I do intend to make a lot of efficient use of the space and save a lot of costs on forgoing traditional designs (simple and centralised design) and invest in other areas (quality materials, high energy efficiency).

I plan on doing a "build log" on this, since this is going to be quite unusual in some ways. And because I'm a nerd.