Motherboard Sapphire 5x5 Ryzen embedded APU

lhl

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Nov 16, 2015
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143
Uh guys, you realize this is a 147.3mm x 139.7mm board, so not significantly smaller than a mini-ITX (170mm x 170mm) board for most purposes. Due to the I/O headers, you're also not going to get this below 35mm or so height w/o surgery (and you'll need VLP SODIMMs if you want to go below 30mm) - the 1U thing doesn't even make sense btw, you can easily fit a mini-ITX board in a half-depth 1U case.

Considering you can get a 2400G+MB combo for <$250 (+$40 for an NH-L9a if you don't have a LP cooler lying around), I think the FP5V just doesn't make sense for most people even if it were widely available. When it will:
  • You need 4 DP outputs (actually, I don't think I've seen a mini-ITX AM4 board w/ more than 2 outputs) - one caveat, this board has been validated/works OOTB w/ Ubuntu 16.0.4.1 LTS, but w/o hardware acceleration and it doesn't work OOTB w/ 18.04.1, like other Zen APUs it requires kernel 4.17 for Vega to work properly (seems to run pretty solidly on 4.17.14 for me atm, I've only managed to make it lockup once when switching between VTs a bunch)
  • If you need ECC, the latest 2.20 BIOS on the FP5V is supposed to work - I don't have any ECC SODIMMs so I haven't tested it though; I don't know of any mini-ITX boards that currently supports ECC on Raven Ridge (Asrock claims ECC support w/ Summit Ridge, Pinnacle Ridge, and Ryzen Pro APUs but (I've tested/confirmed) not Raven Ridge)
  • You need/want Zen or Vega and have an embedded/industrial use case (willing to pay premium for extended life span, easy to modify Aptio BIOS, and can meet MoQ). The first part is important b/c you can get smaller (NUC/USFF) industrial 8250U boards that may do everything you need better for a lower price
BTW, don't let lack of SATA stop you, It's pretty cheap to get a mPCIe SATA controller card (the mPCIE slot sits right underneath the M.2 slot). I've mostly finished my evaluation for now and while I've put my 1807 into use (typing on it right now actually while I finally get my Ryzen 1700 RMA'd), I do have an untouched 1605 that I'm happy to sell at cost (warning: that'd have to include half of the Fedex Int'l bill). If anyone's particularly jonesing to get their hands on one of these, feel free to PM me. If not, I'm sure I'll find a use for this board sooner rather than later - I've only tested w/ Linux, but besides requiring a non-LTS kernel, and the GPIO not working (the sensors part works if you force the fintek module), it's seems pretty solid. It also works fine with the Acbel AD9009 90W power supply which means you could easily build a <1L system (maybe down to 0.7L if you're willing to desolder some headers, have access to VLP SODIMMs, and are willing to get creative on cooling (<25mm GPU or laptop cooling options). I think the GPU is too weak to take any PPL crowns, but you could make something pretty darn small...
 
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Thehack

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Mar 6, 2016
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Uh guys, you realize this is a 147.3mm x 139.7mm board, so not significantly smaller than a mini-ITX (170mm x 170mm) board for most purposes. Due to the I/O headers, you're also not going to get this below 35mm or so height w/o surgery (and you'll need VLP SODIMMs if you want to go below 30mm) - the 1U thing doesn't even make sense btw, you can easily fit a mini-ITX board in a half-depth 1U case.

Considering you can get a 2400G+MB combo for <$250 (+$40 for an NH-L9a if you don't have a LP cooler lying around), I think the FP5V just doesn't make sense for most people even if it were widely available. When it will:
  • You need 4 DP outputs (actually, I don't think I've seen a mini-ITX AM4 board w/ more than 2 outputs) - one caveat, this board has been validated/works OOTB w/ Ubuntu 16.0.4.1 LTS, but w/o hardware acceleration and it doesn't work OOTB w/ 18.04.1, like other Zen APUs it requires kernel 4.17 for Vega to work properly (seems to run pretty solidly on 4.17.14 for me atm, I've only managed to make it lockup once when switching between VTs a bunch)
  • If you need ECC, the latest 2.20 BIOS on the FP5V is supposed to work - I don't have any ECC SODIMMs so I haven't tested it though; I don't know of any mini-ITX boards that currently supports ECC on Raven Ridge (Asrock claims ECC support w/ Summit Ridge, Pinnacle Ridge, and Ryzen Pro APUs but (I've tested/confirmed) not Raven Ridge)
  • You need/want Zen or Vega and have an embedded/industrial use case (willing to pay premium for extended life span, easy to modify Aptio BIOS, and can meet MoQ). The first part is important b/c you can get smaller (NUC/USFF) industrial 8250U boards that may do everything you need better for a lower price
BTW, don't let lack of SATA stop you, It's pretty cheap to get a mPCIe SATA controller card (the mPCIE slot sits right underneath the M.2 slot). I've mostly finished my evaluation for now and while I've put my 1807 into use (typing on it right now actually while I finally get my Ryzen 1700 RMA'd), I do have an untouched 1605 that I'm happy to sell at cost (warning: that'd have to include half of the Fedex Int'l bill). If anyone's particularly jonesing to get their hands on one of these, feel free to PM me. If not, I'm sure I'll find a use for this board sooner rather than later - I've only tested w/ Linux, but besides requiring a non-LTS kernel, and the GPIO not working (the sensors part works if you force the fintek module), it's seems pretty solid. It also works fine with the Acbel AD9009 90W power supply which means you could easily build a <1L system (maybe down to 0.7L if you're willing to desolder some headers, have access to VLP SODIMMs, and are willing to get creative on cooling (<25mm GPU or laptop cooling options). I think the GPU is too weak to take any PPL crowns, but you could make something pretty darn small...

I think it's pretty obvious from the spec sheet and price this is not a general purpose board.
 

lhl

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Nov 16, 2015
121
143
I think it's pretty obvious from the spec sheet and price this is not a general purpose board.

You'd think so, but I keep seeing people in various forums posting about how amazing it'd be if they could get their hands on one for some reason.
 

Choidebu

"Banned"
Aug 16, 2017
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Yeah thanks for the writeup @lhl

After @Windfall 's effort of finding the docs, I too realise this would need a big effort to get it as small as we'd imagine it to be. Ideally this board should have slanted so-dimms, more spread out i/o and one less ethernet port.

So I agree shoehorning this form factor to an ideal usff htpc is more effort than gains.

Looking at the manual, the fact that it has smbus, 8-bit gpio, tpm, auto power on jumper, all screams embedded display controller/digital kiosk application.

Comparing it to udoo bolt for example, it's 12x12, usb-c instead of dp, and m2 at the back, single ethernet all makes it more viable to go lower (albeit we still need vlp so-dimm which to be honest I've never seen before) in height. A laptop-style heatpipes and heatsink to the side looks possible too, with no ports nor headers on one side of the cpu.

And at the end of the day pricing is king, which is also the case with udoo bolt. They do cram alot in there (eMMC and arduino), great if you use it, but if not, well...

So for now, udoo bolt is a better option imo, I hope they met their shipping at end of year and hit retail then.

Edit: one thing of concern though; the spec page only lists ddr4-2400, since zen performs better with higher ram speed, does this mean the board is crippled?
 
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Windfall

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Yeah thanks for the writeup @lhl

After @Windfall 's effort of finding the docs, I too realise this would need a big effort to get it as small as we'd imagine it to be. Ideally this board should have slanted so-dimms, more spread out i/o and one less ethernet port.

So I agree shoehorning this form factor to an ideal usff htpc is more effort than gains.

Looking at the manual, the fact that it has smbus, 8-bit gpio, tpm, auto power on jumper, all screams embedded display controller/digital kiosk application.

Comparing it to udoo bolt for example, it's 12x12, usb-c instead of dp, and m2 at the back, single ethernet all makes it more viable to go lower (albeit we still need vlp so-dimm which to be honest I've never seen before) in height. A laptop-style heatpipes and heatsink to the side looks possible too, with no ports nor headers on one side of the cpu.

And at the end of the day pricing is king, which is also the case with udoo bolt. They do cram alot in there (eMMC and arduino), great if you use it, but if not, well...

So for now, udoo bolt is a better option imo, I hope they met their shipping at end of year and hit retail then.

Edit: one thing of concern though; the spec page only lists ddr4-2400, since zen performs better with higher ram speed, does this mean the board is crippled?


The board can take up to 3200.
 
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Choidebu

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Aug 16, 2017
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I mean the udoo bolt, not the sapphire.

By the way,
Considering you can get a 2400G+MB combo for <$250 (+$40 for an NH-L9a if you don't have a LP cooler lying around), I ...
We also need to factor in the cost of dc plug-in board. About 35$?
 
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K888D

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Feb 23, 2016
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The Sapphire board can take a 12V barrel connector directly into the rear IO and so doesn't require an internal PSU, just the external AC brick.

As far as I can tell, the UDOO BOLT's top version is the V1605B (4C/8T @ 2.06GHz Base / 3.6GHz Turbo, 8 Core GPU @ 1100 Mhz, DDR4 2400, 25W TDP) for $309 (standard price, not early bird price), compared to the Sapphire which also have the higher end version V1807B chip (4C/8T @ 3.35GHz Base / 3.8GHz Turbo, 11 Core GPU @ 1300 MHz, DDR4 3200, 54W TDP) for $450.

Not sure how this difference will transfer into real world performance and whether its worth the additional $141, but the Sapphire is higher performing board than the UDOO BOLT.
 

lhl

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Nov 16, 2015
121
143
I think some of the performance difference will depend on how strict the BOLT's throttling actually is (I'd also be very surprised if they didn't let you tweak you memory timings), but GPU-wise, I'd expect performance to pretty much mirror 2200G vs 2400G performance.

As far as CPU goes, on the 1807, I can confirm that stress -c 1 maxes out a single core at a pretty stable 3775-3792 MHz at about 57C and drops down speeds (about 3.5-3.6GHz @ 2 and 3) to 3.35GHz when you get to stress -c 4 with about 64C max temp (open bench, 25C ambient).

$ uname -a
Linux v18 4.17.14-arch1-1-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Aug 9 11:56:50 UTC 2018 x86_64 GNU/Linux

$ lscpu | grep MHz
CPU MHz: 2086.499
CPU max MHz: 3350.0000
CPU min MHz: 1600.0000

# dmidecode -t processor | grep Speed
Max Speed: 3800 MHz
Current Speed: 3350 MHz

$ stress --version
stress 1.0.4

watch 'cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep "MHz"'


Usually I don't hear the fan, but gets close to 3000 RPM and is audible (but still not super loud) when it maxes out. Sample of the sensors output (you need to manual modprobe/add the f71882fg module, sensors-detect won't find it):

k10temp-pci-00c3
Adapter: PCI adapter
temp1: +33.8°C (high = +70.0°C)

f81768d-isa-0a20
Adapter: ISA adapter
in0: +1.66 V
in1: +0.85 V (max = +2.04 V)
in2: +0.93 V
in3: +2.04 V
in4: +2.04 V
in5: +0.00 V
in6: +0.00 V
in7: +1.66 V
in8: +1.59 V
in9: +1.67 V
in10: +1.65 V
fan1: 1355 RPM
fan2: 0 RPM ALARM
fan3: 0 RPM ALARM
temp1: +48.0°C (high = +85.0°C, hyst = +81.0°C)
(crit = +100.0°C, hyst = +96.0°C) sensor = transistor
temp2: +35.0°C (high = +85.0°C, hyst = +81.0°C)
(crit = +100.0°C, hyst = +96.0°C) sensor = transistor
temp3: FAULT (high = +70.0°C, hyst = +68.0°C)
(crit = +85.0°C, hyst = +83.0°C) sensor = transistor

(EDIT: hmm, never noticed there wasn't code block support before)
 
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lhl

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Nov 16, 2015
121
143
BTW, for those just looking for extra outputs, it looks like the Gigabyte B450 I will have 1 x DP 1.2 and 2 x HDMI 2.0 (w/ HDCP) outputs onboard. 3 x 4KP60 isn't too shabby.
 
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Windfall

I'm a huge fan of SFF
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Nov 14, 2017
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Uh guys, you realize this is a 147.3mm x 139.7mm board, so not significantly smaller than a mini-ITX (170mm x 170mm) board for most purposes. Due to the I/O headers, you're also not going to get this below 35mm or so height w/o surgery (and you'll need VLP SODIMMs if you want to go below 30mm) - the 1U thing doesn't even make sense btw, you can easily fit a mini-ITX board in a half-depth 1U case.

Considering you can get a 2400G+MB combo for <$250 (+$40 for an NH-L9a if you don't have a LP cooler lying around), I think the FP5V just doesn't make sense for most people even if it were widely available. When it will:
  • You need 4 DP outputs (actually, I don't think I've seen a mini-ITX AM4 board w/ more than 2 outputs) - one caveat, this board has been validated/works OOTB w/ Ubuntu 16.0.4.1 LTS, but w/o hardware acceleration and it doesn't work OOTB w/ 18.04.1, like other Zen APUs it requires kernel 4.17 for Vega to work properly (seems to run pretty solidly on 4.17.14 for me atm, I've only managed to make it lockup once when switching between VTs a bunch)
  • If you need ECC, the latest 2.20 BIOS on the FP5V is supposed to work - I don't have any ECC SODIMMs so I haven't tested it though; I don't know of any mini-ITX boards that currently supports ECC on Raven Ridge (Asrock claims ECC support w/ Summit Ridge, Pinnacle Ridge, and Ryzen Pro APUs but (I've tested/confirmed) not Raven Ridge)
  • You need/want Zen or Vega and have an embedded/industrial use case (willing to pay premium for extended life span, easy to modify Aptio BIOS, and can meet MoQ). The first part is important b/c you can get smaller (NUC/USFF) industrial 8250U boards that may do everything you need better for a lower price
BTW, don't let lack of SATA stop you, It's pretty cheap to get a mPCIe SATA controller card (the mPCIE slot sits right underneath the M.2 slot). I've mostly finished my evaluation for now and while I've put my 1807 into use (typing on it right now actually while I finally get my Ryzen 1700 RMA'd), I do have an untouched 1605 that I'm happy to sell at cost (warning: that'd have to include half of the Fedex Int'l bill). If anyone's particularly jonesing to get their hands on one of these, feel free to PM me. If not, I'm sure I'll find a use for this board sooner rather than later - I've only tested w/ Linux, but besides requiring a non-LTS kernel, and the GPIO not working (the sensors part works if you force the fintek module), it's seems pretty solid. It also works fine with the Acbel AD9009 90W power supply which means you could easily build a <1L system (maybe down to 0.7L if you're willing to desolder some headers, have access to VLP SODIMMs, and are willing to get creative on cooling (<25mm GPU or laptop cooling options). I think the GPU is too weak to take any PPL crowns, but you could make something pretty darn small...

How much and how hard was it to get an evaluation board? And I may want a board, if the sapphire guy I'm talking to doesn't come through.
 

BryceK

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Dec 25, 2017
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84
Contacted Shappire Support thru Athlon Micro and got a brochure and user manual:


I also got some questions answered:

No aftermarket coolers fit.

The board can accept power from an HDPLEX 80W, 19v

One sata drive is supported.

boards come with an io shield


That's it for now, but I'm gonna try to get the official mounting pattern/io cutouts out of the support guy as well as cooler info.

EDIT: managed to get a 3d pdf off of this guy, but its so detailed my computer cant even orbit it.... I'll work on a solution to get it to you guys.

Windfall Do you need an extension cable for the HDplex 80W? so it has all 4-pins in use or are the available 2 good enough?
 

Windfall

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Do you need an extension cable for the HDplex 80W? so it has all 4-pins in use or are the available 2 good enough?

The 4-pin output of the 80w plugs right into the 4-pin on the board.


On Another subject-

I am ordering one of these boards from sapphire.

If anybody wants me to order them one, let me know. I may only be able to get one of each.
 

BryceK

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Dec 25, 2017
143
84
The 4-pin output of the 80w plugs right into the 4-pin on the board.


On Another subject-

I am ordering one of these boards from sapphire.

If anybody wants me to order them one, let me know. I may only be able to get one of each.

How is that possible? The output of the HDplex 80w is a Female connector and the connector on the Sapphire board is also Female?
 

BryceK

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Dec 25, 2017
143
84
Just got my invoice on paypal. Costs are really on the highside. I bought the 1807B version for $450, yet the shipping is an additional $100 and paypal handling costs are $28.

Yet all these costs do not include customs and taxes. Since i'm from the Netherlands this will be 21% taxes around the $95 and about $20 in DHL handling costs. For customs I did check the Customs database for the Netherlands but no additional costs from them.

Yet it will be a total of around the $693, so $700 to make it easy.

Then still 2 SODIMM's 3200 Mhz 16GB ($240), a NVMe SSD 250GB ($100), a Wifi / Bluetooth card ($30), a PSU ($35) and finally a case ($40).

The grand total for a fully working PC to my flavor would be $1.145
 
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Windfall

I'm a huge fan of SFF
Moderator
Nov 14, 2017
2,109
1,570
Just got my invoice on paypal. Costs are really on the highside. I bought the 1807B version for $450, yet the shipping is an additional $100 and paypal handling costs are $28.

Yet all these costs do not include customs and taxes. Since i'm from the Netherlands this will be 21% taxes around the $95 and about $20 in DHL handling costs. For customs I did check the Customs database for the Netherlands but no additional costs from them.

Yet it will be a total of around the $693, so $700 to make it easy.

Then still 2 SODIMM's 3200 Mhz 16GB ($240), a NVMe SSD 250GB ($100), a Wifi / Bluetooth card ($30), a PSU ($35) and finally a case ($40).

The grand total for a fully working PC to my flavor would be $1.145

I know. it's expensive!
 

BryceK

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Dec 25, 2017
143
84
I got the .STP aswell, currently looking for heatsink alternatives, else just build my own (passive).