Log Neath's Rigs: Too many different builds!

[Neathdrawls]

Edit (23 Oct 2021): Finally, after much lazing around, the Revoccase MIT1-XL post and thoughts below.
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Edit (21 Sep 2021): Built in the Smol X1 Prototype, post and thoughts below.
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Edit (16 Aug 2021): Changed title of thread to better reflect what I intend to do here, a record of the builds I would want to do, as I gotten a Ryzen 5 5600X recently, but it proved to be faulty (to me at least) and having to go through RMA process right now. Going to get some baseline reference numbers for myself with the 5600X in a test bench format, with NH-D15S.
Upcoming rigs: Spray painted black SGPC K39 (new), then bigger coolers in the Lazer 3D LZX-8. For now.
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3 Aug 2021:

First post here in the forums, being lurking around for a while now, fifth case that I have built in (NR200P, Minichariot Z2, ZS Case A4L v2, K39 v2).

Now, now to the Lazer3D's LZX-8.

Not many reviews of it but there are a couple of the predecessor, the LZ7.

And after a couple of days of using it, here's my take of it and I know @K888D frequents the forums and many thanks for a great case. It's going to be mainly a copy and paste of my reddit post, with edits in paragraphs and pictures.

Tldr;​

A highly customizable case built with thick cut acrylic panels, extremely sturdy and solid after the whole case is built. Matte black finish looks very good, and with maximum airflow patterns for all the ventilation.

After my testing and usage, it seems that the LZX-8 is more suitable for a horizontal orientation, rather than vertical, with idle and light workloads temps being way more balanced. In the vertical layout, there were mixed results, where a trade off will be required for either CPU or GPU temps. At max loads, the temperatures and results are roughly equal.

Link to Photo album for all of the some pictures i took.

Build Process​

Build process was great with very clear instructions in the manual. A little user error at the end with the Expansion Slot cover caused some frustration, as the holes are supposed to only go one way, but without much clear marking. Cable management is as good as it gets with the PSU right at the front and I think I did alright. Although, a little suggestion is to plug in your cables to the motherboard first, and to put the case feet with the now supplied M3 nuts on the bottom panel (if using it vertically), before installing the GPU.

Thermals & Tests​

Thermals wise, I tried the default horizontal orientation with positive pressure and 3 different configurations in the vertical format (stock 10mm tall feet with top intake, 20mm feet with top intake, 20mm feet with top exhaust). I must say I ain't a professional and results are only for my use case, and my ambient temps are usually around 31C to 32C in the day, around 28C is early in the morning.

More/In-depth details can be found on my spreadsheet.

CPU Cooler​

The AXP90 Full Black at 47mm is below the recommended height of 60mm of top down coolers, as recommended by Lazer3D, but it performs well. Compared to my previous IS-60 Evo, the AXP90 climbs to max 80C slowly on all three configurations, whereas the IS-60 Evo hits 72C max almost instantly and stays at 72C. The clock speeds and scores on all four tests are roughly the same.

Also, if you can get an upgrade accessories kit for the AXP90 (either this or this), you can use the MSI B550I stock backplate for the cooler, which I have done so. But the fin slots are still orientated to blow air towards the VRMs and RAM. The newer revised AXP90's have a brand new mounting system, except the AXP90 x47 Full Black (Copper) ones, do make sure to check before buying.

And mainly being too lazy to test out my other low profile coolers that I have on hand (NH-L9A, AXP90 x47 Full Black, AXP90 x53 Full Black, AXP-90 x53, IS-60 Evo). I would think that most of the coolers that I have will perform similarly to each other.

CPU Thermals​

CPU performance and temperature wise, it's quite good, granted that the 4650G isn't a terribly hot chip. While orientated vertically, web browsing/video temps are around 43C to 45C, with top intake. On the other hand, while with a top exhaust, temps are around 46C to 51C. Granted that the top down cooler will be working harder for fresh air without any additional help. Horizontally, temperatures are good, being around 43C.

GPU Thermals​

GPU thermals, it's good with the amount of airflow cutouts that the LZX-8 has. The 3060 is undervolted to be at 875mV at 1900MHz, with a good solid drop in temperatures. Timespy and Heaven benchmark results are in the spreadsheet.

Horizontally, GPU temps are great. GPU idle and light workloads are around 38C. Whereas in the vertical orientation, compared to my previous sandwich ZS-A4L, the 3060 Aero ITX in the LZX-8 has a slight increase in temperature, probably due to the lack of airflow on the bottom of the LZX-8 with stock feet. Temps with stock feet are at 43C, taller feet(top intake) at 41C, taller feet(top exhaust) at 37C.

GPU temps are helped with a negative pressure setup (top exhaust), at the expense of higher CPU temps. I pretty much only play Mechwarrior Online with this PC, CPU temps are around 54C, GPU around 65C after gaming for an hour or so.

Airflow​

Airflow of the case is great, you can feel the positive pressure from the 140mm fan up top forcing air out from the other vents, which could also be forcing the GPU to recycle some of the hot air as intake for itself.

Conclusion​

All in all, the LZX-8 is a great case with solid airflow and temperatures, albeit a little pricey. Some might baulk at the choice of materials, but it is very sturdy, well cut and of fantastic quality. No complaints on quality wise from me and I personally think and feel the case looks great in both vertical and horizontal format. The sheer range of customizability that Lazer 3D provides for their cases should ensure that users can build a case that is suitable for them.

But why move from a smaller case to a bigger case, is the question for myself. A bigger case, with a smaller CPU cooler capacity to boot. Not using a PCIE riser cable and the ventilation options for the case were the main appealing points for myself. And the excitement of moving to a new case, having my eyes and hands set on finally doing the new K39 (yes, there is a revision to the K39 v2), and maybe the Smol X1 prototype.

Hope it's helpful for anyone looking for reviews, happy to answer questions and cheers!

Specifications

• Case: Lazer3D LZX-8
• Processor: AMD Ryzen 5 4650G PRO
• Motherboard: MSI B550I Gaming Edge Wifi
• Ram: 32(2x16)GB Corsair Vengeance Pro 3600 CL18
• PSU: FSP Dagger Pro 650W SFX 80+ Gold
• GPU: MSI RTX 3060 Aero ITX 12GB
• Cooler: Thermalright AXP90 Full Black (47mm, copper body/fins, stock fan)
• Case Fan (Intake): 1x Thermalright TL-C14S ARGB
• Storage: 1TB Kioxia NVME M.2
• Storage: 500GB Samsung M.2 Sata
• Storage: 2TB Western Digital 3.5' HDD

 

[K888D]

Thanks for putting together this fantastically detailed review!

 

[BaK]

Indeed, great post and build too!
The case looks premium with its matte black finish along with thick panels!
Lots of data to compare in the datasheet too, very informative!

Only complain could be the cable management!
But it's probably hard to do better without custom cables.

Can you tell us more about the two extra screens, what they are displaying, how they are connected, powered, ...?

 

[Neathdrawls]

Thanks mate! Was hoping to put something together for people to reference, even if my testing and results aren't probably the most scientific and/or accurate.

Yeah, was really racking my brain on the cable management though, without custom cables and without the 3.5inch HDD, there would the channel there to route cables, with only the visible one from the PSU, and the GPU.

As for the monitors, the one on top is 13.3inch 2560x1440 2K monitor.

Bottom one is a 3.5inch IPS type C that have to use a program by the seller that is preprogrammed for the different backgrounds and stats.

Got both of them off Taobao.

 

[K888D]

Yeah, was really racking my brain on the cable management though, without custom cables and without the 3.5inch HDD, there would the channel there to route cables, with only the visible one from the PSU, and the GPU.

It was actually great to see you've used a 3.5" drive, this was a new feature I was unsure about adding as to whether it would cause compatibility issues, it's good to see someone making use of this functionality!

 

[Neathdrawls]

It was actually great to see you've used a 3.5" drive, this was a new feature I was unsure about adding as to whether it would cause compatibility issues, it's good to see someone making use of this functionality!

Aye, was looking for cases that can fit a 3.5inch drive, and the LZX-8 was one of them.

Yeah, I know mechanical drives are kinda frowned upon (most of the time) in SFF, but if it's lying around and the case can fit it, and be under 10 litres, why not?

 

[Neathdrawls]

With the arrival of my 5600X (and having too many CPU Coolers on hand and before having to RMA another 5600X), I had some time on my hands, so I decided to test out the 5600X with them to get some temperature numbers for reference, before shoving them into a small case.

If anyone is interested, the link to the results are here. Warning though, no fancy charts or graphs to be found, pure text/numbers dump. Link to the photo album is here.

Tl;dr? 5600X at stock values, most coolers will be able to handle it. Not much surprising results, bigger coolers have better dissipation, thus better scores and temps. Personal favourite still is the Thermalright AXP90s.

Disclaimer: I am no professional tester, and the numbers are purely for my own reference and use case, as your mileage will vary with factors like silicon lottery.

CPU Coolers tested:

• Noctua NH-D15S Chromax
• Noctua NH-L9a
• ID-Cooling SE-904-XT Slim
• ID-Cooling IS-60 EVO with 12025mm fan
• ID-Cooling IS-60 EVO with 12015mm fan
• ID-Cooling IS-47K
• Thermalright AXP90-X47 Full Back (Black/Copper)
• Thermalright AXP90-X53 Full Black (Black/Copper)

Yes, I didn't test the Noctua NH-L12S and Blackridge, as it seems like it wouldn't fit with my Corsair Vengeance Pro RAMs, but mainly because I didn't want to spend even more money. As far as possible, I used the same NF-A9x14 on the coolers that used a 92mm fan.

Test Methods:

1. Stock 5600X Values: PPT: 76W, TDC: 60A, EDC: 90A
2. Motherboard limits: PPT: 110W, TDC: 70A, EDC: 113A (Approximately, fluctuates according to HWinfo64)
3. Manual Values: PPT: 88W, TDC: 60A, EDC: 90A

As far as possible, Curve Optimizer was utilized for the Motherboard Limits and the Manual Values at -10 for best two cores, -15 for the rest, +100 MHz boost. As far as possible, stability hasn't been tested intensely, but no crashes from low loads yet.

If you ask me, stock 5600X values are weirdly low, and all the tested coolers are able to keep it respectfully cooled, even the NH-L9a.

With motherboard limits enabled in BIOS with PBO, the PPT/TDC/EDC increases to around 110W (PPT), 70A (TDC), 113A (EDC). And here is where the D15S outshines the smaller SE-904-XT, in all aspects of temperatures, noise and scores. I only dared to test motherboard limits with these two coolers, even though I think the IS-60 EVO and Thermalright AXP-90s would have completed the runs, but at max heat.

Dialing in manual values closer to the previous generation 3700X at 88W, with Curve Optimizer, the 5600X extends its legs and prowess, in both scores and in temperatures as well.

Undoubtedly, the NH-D15S dominates in all aspects (as it should), but here we are to see the results for the lower profile coolers no? Cinebench R23 scores are all roughly equal, most of the time, where max temperatures are the differentiating factor.

The IS-47K and NH-L9a were unable to complete runs of Cinebench R23, unfortunately indicating that 88W might be possibly too much for them to handle. Initially I thought mounting pressure might have been the issue, I repasted and mounted them again, but still failed to complete.

Noise Disclaimer: I don't test noise levels unfortunately. My standing fan next to me is the noise ceiling and is able to drown out most fan noise from the rig. The only fan I can really hear over the standing fan are the three industrialPPC NF-F12s in my main rig when they are going full blast at 2000 RPM.

Although I must say, the Thermalright TL-C9B and TL-9015B are max rpm are more noticeable compared to the Noctua NF-A9x14.

What's next? Moving the parts into an actual case. It's a toss up between the new SGPC K39, or an unnamed K39v2 clone.

 

[Neathdrawls]

Look at what arrived in the mail today: the Smol X1 Prototype!

Getting ready to put my impressions and thoughts into words, and will update as soon as I can get them coherent.

 

[Neathdrawls]

The Smol X1 prototype has reached and I have gotten my hands on a prototype unit, and have gotten around to build in it with a couple of configurations.

Thanks to the SmolSFF Team (@Joonst) who has nicely let me in on purchasing a prototype unit at the same time as them, but the review is my own opinions and I have paid for the case and shipping by myself.

Full album here.

Appearance and Finishing​

I must say that the voronoi pattern looks good and is starting to grow on me, as it wasn’t my first choice at the start, but I still prefer the boring, industrial look of the prison bar style, straight vents.

Build/Fabrication Quality​

Solid, steel panels, at 1.5mm thick, gives the X1 a solid feel. Slight flimsy-ness at the corners, but no such problems when the case is fully assembled. Although I have my reservations regarding the stand/foot that is used, it feels a little bit shaky with a strong enough touch.

Building in the case​

It wasn't too hard, it was spacious enough for a 6.9L case, although previous experience with the Lazer3D LZX-8 made things familiar, and moving from the K39v2 meant that this was easier. Cable management is as good as it gets, not much places to route cables if a SFX PSU is used, as it is right in front of everything. Custom cables would be much better here.
Positives

• Looks. Voronoi patterning makes a rare appearance on pc cases and it looks great.
• Steel construction in a classic layout, no riser cables are needed

Build/Cooling Options that I tested​

• Flex ATX with Rear Exhaust Tower Cooler (Jonsbo CR1400, 126mm tall) + Rear mounted Exhaust 8010 fan.
• Flex ATX with Top Down Cooler + Fan Bracket (AXP-90 x47 Full Black, 12025 fan on bracket)
• SFX PSU with Top Down cooler + Top mounted Intake 12025 fan (AXP-90 x47 Full Black)

No, I don’t have a NH-U9S for testing or a 120mm AIO, and in my testing, the best cooling options are with a Flex ATX PSU with a tower cooler. Well, bigger cooler is usually always better, so the NH-9US would most likely perform even better.

The Jonsbo CR1400 at 126mm tall is pretty much the limit of the CPU coolers, with it sitting right at the side panel, looks pretty good and is quiet enough too.

Thermals​

It's alright, just alright. CPU temps are where you expect it to be as the 5600X at stock isn't particularly tough to cool, but GPU is average at best while in the classic vertical format.
Laying down the case horizontally helped the airflow in the case, and thus also having better CPU and GPU thermals.

Cinebench R23 and Heaven benchmark scores and thermals can be found in my spreadsheet here.

Improvements and recommendations​

• Might be my SFX PSU issue, but I was unable to mount the PSU with the fan facing outwards to the vented panel, the switch was in the way. A larger opening for the PSU would have been better, and maybe moving it higher.
• In the original vertical layout, GPU temperatures are gerenally higher (I had hifi feet that I just placed on the table and laid the case down horizontally).
• Mounting of the rear 80mm fan only uses 2 mounting holes, strangely.
• Airflow can be improved, with additional vents in the back panel, where the motherboard is mounted.
• Support for 2.5inch drive(s).
• GPU power cables might hit against the side panel if your cables are thick, taller cards might face some issues.

Vents at the back are needed to help with GPU temperatures, as right now, the hot air exhausted by the top down cooler and GPU are trapped in the front of the case, without any exit. Top mounted intake fan with positive pressure will push air down, meaning some of the hot air will flow to the bottom of the case, where the GPU will intake it back. Higher temperatures indicate this, in my experience as I have faced the same thing in the Lazer3D LZX8, which is even more ventilated.

Conclusion​

In summary, the Smol X1 is an interesting take in the SFF/ITX world, with multiple build options and configurations without the use of a PCIe riser cable, although it isn’t the smallest and can only take an ITX GPU, but can mount some tower cooling options, with a Flex ATX PSU, and it looks quite good.
While in the SFX PSU configuration, the closest non-sandwich cases that I can think off that are similar are Lazer3D’s LZ-7/LZX8, SGPC’s K69/K60/K70, Sirius T70, which are all slightly bigger.

The Smol X1 has a configuration option that are really a niche (Tower Coolers with Flex ATX) within a niche (<10L volume), but I personally like it, and would like to see more options for such, as I don’t really see many other options out there (yet).

Right now, in its current prototype stage, there are some areas where it can be improved on, and I am definitely looking forward to the finished product.

 

[Neathdrawls]

After using it for a couple of weeks, and much procrastination, I finally got around to putting my thoughts and tests down to words for Revoccase's MIT1-XL.

Many thanks to Revoccase who has very kindly and speedily made the changes to accommodate a bigger cooler, more vents and then sending extras together with the case.

If you want to check out the process, click here for the concept and start of the case post; and full album of my build is here.

Appearance, Finishing ,Build & Fabrication Quality​

Solid, aluminum panels, with a powder coated space grey finish. All around no issues with the quality of the panels and finishing. The straight vents give off an industrial look, and it looks great to myself.

Vented panels on all sides, so airflow wouldn't be an issue. Stability of the whole build is only at the end, when the side panel is screwed on, so one has to be slightly careful while in the building process, as the panels can and will flex outwards a little.

Size and Components compatibility​

Specifications:

• Dimension: 234mm (H) x 191mm (L) x 116mm (W)
• Volume: 8.38L
• GPU Card Max Length: 185mm(L) x 141mm(W) x 43mm(H)
• Motherboard: Mini ITX only
• CPU Cooler Max Height: 136mm height
• Power supply compatible: SFX, SFX-L
• Fan Support: 2x Rear mounted 80mm fans

Measuring in at 8.38L, the MIT1-XL is a (mini) tower style SFF case, with a traditional layout, and supports a fair sized air cooler like Noctua's NH-C14S (with the fan on top), BeQuiet Dark Rock TF2, Thermalright's new Silver Soul 135 or the Thermalright Silver Arrow.

However, while this means there wouldn't be a need for any riser cable, the drawback is that one's choices for GPUs are limited to ITX sized GPUs.

The case doesn't officially support following:

• 2x Top mounted 40mm fans (Not really needed, airflow is from front to back, while just adding additional cables to manage and taking up the space for cable management.)
• 1x Front mounted 90mm fan (Will cause turbulence due to being too close to the front panels, can be mitigated by using rubber spacers, plastic spacers, rubber anti-vibration mounts)
• Any HDD/SSD

Building in the case​

It wasn't too hard, as the case is closing in on the 10L mark at 8.38L. No major hiccups when building in the case, although I did encounter some user errors while building in it.

One, MSI's B550I has a higher CPU socket position, so there is very little space left in between the top of the SS135 and the PSU, and that made clipping on the CPU way harder than it needs to be. Two, cable management after my first build (before custom cables) wasn't the best I could do, because of the different steps I took.

The front fan mounting would be one of the last steps, and it involves mounting the screws and spacers to the case first, plugging in your fan cable, then aligning and screwing the fans together. It would also entail some mashing of the 24 pin cables down.

In my rebuild after the custom cables arrived, lessons were learnt. CPU Cooler and fan should be plugged in first, then the rear 2 case fans before the PSU and cables.

Once everything is close to completion, it looks super packed and compact. Very satisfying. And yes, I decided to mount an ARGB strip to the back of the case before starting on anything. I tried two, but gave up on the one closer to the side panel.

Build/Cooling Options that I tested:​

1. Thermalright Silver Soul 135 (aftermarket graphene coated); 2x Rear mounted AVC 8025mm, 1x Front mounted Thermalright TL-C9B 9025mm with Vented Side Panel in Vertical mode
2. Thermalright Silver Soul 135 (aftermarket graphene coated); 2x Rear mounted AVC 8025mm, 1x Front mounted Thermalright TL-C9B 9025mm with Solid Side Panel in Vertical mode
3. Thermalright Silver Soul 135 (aftermarket graphene coated); 2x Rear mounted AVC 8025mm, 1x Front mounted Thermalright TL-C9B 9025mm with Vented Side Panel in Horizontal mode

No, I don’t have a NH-C14S or the Dark Rock TF2 for testing and comparison. They are just too expensive (and might cause turbulence as they would be seated very near the side panel), and I already have too many coolers than I have computers, although the new Chromax NH-U12A is so tempting. Sigh.

Thing to note, the Thermalright SS135 uses a non-standard 120mm fan, with rounded out corners. Standard sized fans might fit onto the cooler, but the stock fan clips might be stretched and pressured too much. Thread here was the original first post of thermal results for the SS135.

Also, I changed from my previous MSI RTX 3060 Aero ITX to an ASRock 6600 XT Challenger ITX recently, and the Aero ITX fan blade rising while spinning might have cause some issues with it hitting the bottom of the case, but thankfully I don't have to face that issue.

Thermals​

It's good! Although it might be due to the MIT1-XL being able to fit a bigger CPU cooler, more fans and better ventilation as compared to my previous build in the Smol X1. CPU temps are where you expect it to be as the 5600X at stock isn't particularly tough to cool, but with the Thermalright Silver Soul 135, the 5600X at synthetic load with PBO on (PPT 112W, TDC 69A, EDC 113A) was kept at a maximum of 80C, boosting to around 4450 MHz for all cores.

GPU temperatures are average, also due to the fact that ITX GPUs don't have the best cooling solution for themselves compared to the triple fan chonkers. GPU's are just becoming too large.

That being said, the ASRock 6600XT ITX card performs well for its size. The GPU has a zero RPM mode, and it's up to 62C, and the max fan speed off the shelf is capped at only 69% (?!) even when the card reaches 90C. It is very quiet, for sure, but the temperatures are relatively surprisingly, with stock mode going up to 82C in Heaven4.0, and 79C in TimeSpy benchmarks. The cards was undervolted via Radeon software; to the settings of 1050 mV, 2500 - 2600 MHz. Temperatures are better and performance is also increased. The stock fan curve is just too gentle.

Similarly to the Smol X1, the GPU is at best while the case is laid down horizontally, as it reduces load temperatures by 3C to 4C, as compared to the case standing tall in the vertical format. CPU temperatures while in horizontal mode, weren't very much different.

Edit: As a follow up regarding GPU temperatures, I think it's more ASRock's cooling solution/design being designed weirdly. The default fan curve is pretty non-existent, and it just emphasizes too much on silence, in my opinion. I ain't an engineer and I can't presume to know anything about cooling designs, and it's probably not at throttling levels yet, but still, I don't know why they think that running fan speeds of maximum of 69% even when the card hits 90C is acceptable.

While gaming with a more reasonable fan curve, and undervolted, the GPU temps are around 65C to 70C after a couple of hours. Granted my ambient temperature is usually around 30C to 33C though. (End of Edit)

I got lazy to test the case without the front mounted fan (as it is the irritating portion of the build), but while blasting the front mounted fan on full, low loads CPU temps are helped by 1C to 2C, so I would reckon that the removal of the fan would at worse hinder temperatures by a similar amount.

Mounting the solid panel, thermals for both CPU and GPU are roughly the same as the vented in my limited tests.

Details of my Cinebench R23, Heaven, TimeSpy benchmark scores and thermals can be found in my spreadsheet here.

Noise​

The main contributor of noise is from the front mounted fan initially, as it was too close to the panels, and that caused a droning turbulence noise that can get irritating. Steps I took was to mount rubber spacers (provided kindly by Revoccases), although it isn't the best as the distance is still relatively near to the panel. Ultimately, I decided on mounting one rubber space, one plastic spacer (Noctua gave it to me for mounting their L9a on my MSI B550I), held in place by an anti-vibration rubber o-ring. Noise from the front fan turbulence is essentially gone.

In isolation, the rear mounted fans and the CPU cooler can operate at near silent levels. At full loads, the rear AVC fans can run at 4800 RPM, which is pretty much a jet engine can cover over any noise. It is capped at 3000 RPM for my use case.

Using the solid side panel, it does provide some form of sound insulation, it is slightly quieter when I put my ears right next to the case in both situations.

Some thoughts​

• Maybe the front panel vents can be made to officially support front fans, with a design change to cause less turbulence?
• Wishful thinking, but maybe some form of 2.5inch drive support would have been nice. Nothing stopping users from using double sided tape to mount the drive on the side of the PSU, like what I did though.
• So many screws to take the panel out! 12, twelve! Very minor gripe, hah.

Conclusion​

In summary, I like the case and it performs great thermally.

Yes, some people will question that the case can only take an ITX GPU, it is on the larger size (floating towards the 10L size)It was something I was looking for in a case, traditional (no riser cable woes) layout, SFX PSU and able to use a small CPU tower cooler. Other cases that I was looking at were the Colin Raey Mk2 (which is unfortunately OOP), Smol X1 (Prototype stages), which weren't able to suit my needs. The case looks fully packed to the gills and to me, doesn't seem like there is much wasted space.

While the MIT1 -XL was just in the concept stages and projected to be a built-to-order case, Revoccase was also very receptive and responsive to the suggestions, made the whole process of seeing the case from concept to my desk very satisfying. There were also constant updates and the case arrived way earlier than expected as well.

Hope it's helpful for anyone looking for reviews, happy to answer questions and cheers!

 

[REVOCCASES]

Very good review, thank you for sharing your experience with the case!

Looking at your CPU thermals I am a bit more confident now that I can move my 3800X over in the MIT1.

For GPU thermals I honestly have thought it would be better, or let's say similar like in the Smol X1. Now I'm curious how my 3060Ti performs in the MIT1 ...

 

[Neathdrawls]

Very good review, thank you for sharing your experience with the case!

Looking at your CPU thermals I am a bit more confident now that I can move my 3800X over in the MIT1.

For GPU thermals I honestly have thought it would be better, or let's say similar like in the Smol X1. Now I'm curious how my 3060Ti performs in the MIT1 ...

Aye! It's a great process and the thermals are really good.

I think with your top down cooler pulling fresh air directly from the side panel would yield great results even for the the 3800X.

As for the GPU temperatures, I think it's more ASRock's cooling solution/design being not as efficient as the Aero ITX probably. The default fan curve is pretty non-existent, and it just emphasizes too much on silence, in my opinion. I ain't an engineer and I can't presume to know anything about cooling designs, and it's probably not at throttling levels yet, but still, I don't know why they think that running fan speeds of maximum of 69% even when the card hits 90C is acceptable.

While gaming with a more reasonable fan curve, and undervolted, the GPU temps are around 65C to 70C after a couple of hours. Granted my ambient temperature is usually around 30C to 33C though.

 

[REVOCCASES]

While gaming with a more reasonable fan curve, and undervolted, the GPU temps are around 65C to 70C after a couple of hours. Granted my ambient temperature is usually around 30C to 33C though.

Good to know, that sounds much better.

Just checked some YouTube reviews of the card and it seems to be a common "issue" that it runs quite silent on auto fan settings but gets pretty hot. Still I wonder if it's not a bug that the fans won't ramp up over 69% when hitting 90C. Maybe you could check with AsRock if there is a VBIOS update or if it's really meant to be like that.

 

[Neathdrawls]

Good to know, that sounds much better.

Just checked some YouTube reviews of the card and it seems to be a common "issue" that it runs quite silent on auto fan settings but gets pretty hot. Still I wonder if it's not a bug that the fans won't ramp up over 69% when hitting 90C. Maybe you could check with AsRock if there is a VBIOS update or if it's really meant to be like that.

ASRock Technical has gotten back to my questions, and essentially, they say that it is normal.

It might still be just me, but I still feel that it is interesting to think that at 90C, fan speeds should only run at 69%.

I guess a more agressive fan curve will be more suitable for my liking.

Below is the screenshot, for anyone wondering.

 

[REVOCCASES]

ASRock Technical has gotten back to my questions, and essentially, they say that it is normal.

It might still be just me, but I still feel that it is interesting to think that at 90C, fan speeds should only run at 69%.

I guess a more agressive fan curve will be more suitable for my liking.

Below is the screenshot, for anyone wondering.

Very interesting. If the fan just starts to go full throttle at 110C it seems the AMD chips can stand higher temperatures compared to Nvidia?

How long is the warranty period for your card?

 

[Neathdrawls]

Very interesting. If the fan just starts to go full throttle at 110C it seems the AMD chips can stand higher temperatures compared to Nvidia?

How long is the warranty period for your card?

Yeah, if throttling temperatures are only at 110C, then it would seem that Navi 23 is good to go at such higher temperatures. Maybe it will take a mindset change to adapt and accept that the chips can withstand higher thermals, just like how AMD said that Zen 3's higher operating tempartures are also normal.

Haha, 3 years. Fingers crossed.

Either way, I wouldn't risk it and already have my fan curves set up to have the card at more respectable levels in the 70Cs, at the cost of some noise (which I can live with).

 

[Valantar]

ASRock Technical has gotten back to my questions, and essentially, they say that it is normal.

It might still be just me, but I still feel that it is interesting to think that at 90C, fan speeds should only run at 69%.

I guess a more agressive fan curve will be more suitable for my liking.

Below is the screenshot, for anyone wondering.

Have you considered deshrouding the GPU and adding a case fan instead, to push more air? You'd likely be able to get a simple adapter to connect the fan directly to the GPU's fan header (need to check the board for the type of header first, adapters are typically found cheap on ebay or amazon), and something like a slim 120mm fan would produce a lot more airflow than the stock fan, and be quieter too. Clearances would be right, and would depend on the specific shape of the heatsink under the shroud, but it might be doable.

 

[Neathdrawls]

Have you considered deshrouding the GPU and adding a case fan instead, to push more air? You'd likely be able to get a simple adapter to connect the fan directly to the GPU's fan header (need to check the board for the type of header first, adapters are typically found cheap on ebay or amazon), and something like a slim 120mm fan would produce a lot more airflow than the stock fan, and be quieter too. Clearances would be right, and would depend on the specific shape of the heatsink under the shroud, but it might be doable.

Not really, or rather not intending to do so anytime soon. Right now, with the undervolt, temperatures don't go above 75C, clock speeds are stable, power draw is around 20W lesser, and performance in synthetic benchmarks is better too (probably due to a better fan curve too).

I have made my fan curve to go 70% fan speed while at 70C, and I don't really hear the GPU's fan actually. Might be also due to the fact that my room's noise ceiling is relatively high.

 

[Neathdrawls]

With everyone getting their hands on Alder Lake with Z690 boards, DDR5, and in small cases, here I am just trying to squeeze as many fans as possible into a case that might be laughed at for being too large for SFF.

I should really not be lazy and get my results, thoughts and experience with the Mechanic Master C28 written/typed down. Sometime soon.

 

[Neathdrawls]

The Mechanic Master C28. After migrating my NR200 build over to it and using it for a couple of weeks, and finally deciding not to be lazy, it's my thoughts on the C28 (Air front panel).

If you just want to see pictures, the link to the album is here.

Appearance, Finishing ,Build & Fabrication Quality​

The C28 is an aluminum panel (originally comes with only one, I purchased an additional panel) case, with a steel frame. Generally, the case on a whole is great, with no issues with the quality of the panels and finishing, although the panels are slightly bowed. I have read and watched online that C28 is manufactured by the same factory as Lian Li's TU150, but don't directly quote me on that.

Size and Components compatibility​

Specifications:​

• Dimension: 284mm (H) x 342mm (L) x 185mm (W)
• Volume: 17.97L
• GPU Card Max Length: 335mm(L) x 160mm(W) x 80mm(H)
• Motherboard: MATX or Mini ITX
• CPU Cooler Max Height: 162mm height
• Power supply compatible: SFX, SFX-L, ATX (up to 140mm, longer units will limit GPU length)
• Fan Support: 1x Rear mounted 120mm fan, 2x Top mounted 120mm fans, 2x Bottom 140/120mm fans (MATX motherboards might have issue with 140mm fans), 1x Front 90/80mm fan (Air panel only)
• Hard drive Support: depending on configurations, up to 3x 2.5inch drives, and/or 2x 3.5inch drive

Measuring in at 17.97L, the Mechanic Master C28 comes in on the larger side of SFF cases, however, what it brings to the table is the ability to accommodate bigger sized components as well. mATX motherboards, full sized ATX PSU, and big air coolers. Noctua's NH-D15S or Thermalright's Frost Commander/Spirit 140 will fit inside without any issue.

Color choices wise, you have Silver, Black, Grey and Yellow. For the front panel, both the solid and vented front panel should come in at the price.

Also, if you would prefer AIO cooling your CPU, the C28 is able to fit a 240mm AIO in it's stock configuration, although you will need to take note of your RAM height (<42mm tall). Optionally, if you purchase the vented side panel and bracket, you will be able to mount a 280mm AIO in the side.

It comes with a handle, which is made great, smoothed out edges, if you so wish to carry it around. Although once your rig is fully assembled, it's going to be heavy and it will not be portable, just easier to move around in short distances.

With so many options available to the C28, one might be overwhelmed with the numerous choices though. With that, what I think are some of the most suitable configurations, although I wouldn't recommend water cooling with an ATX PSU (not like I tried either though).

1. Budget focused: MATX Motherboard, ATX PSU, Single Tower Air Cooler
2. High End Air Cooling: MATX Motherboard, SFX PSU, Dual Tower Air Cooler
3. Looks wise: MATX Motherboard, SFX PSU, top mounted 240mm AIO
4. Best cooling: ITX Motherboard, SFX PSU, side mounted 280mm AIO (with vented side panel and bracket)

Building in the case​

All the panels are removable, leaving you access to the barebones of the case, and it's best to do so.

Overall, at 17.9L it is as easy and tough at the same time as it gets. Small enough to require some planning and pre-routing of cables, but spacious enough to allow channels for cables and spaces to store/hide cables. And here I was complaining/whining about removing screws in my other rig (the MIT1-XL Air), because the C28 has screws. A lot of them. Ah well.

Steps I took were, motherboard with CPU cooler, cable routing, PSU, Case fans, then GPU.

Being crazy enough to cram as many fans as possible inside the fan, there is a total of 9 fans inside, meaning 9 fan cables to manage, but there are enough spaces to hide and manage them.

However, some points to note, but it must be said I have only done research for AMD B550 motherboards and your mileage will vary for other chipsets and Intel boards.

• Biggest air cooler I would recommend for ITX motherboards is the U12A or the Peerless Assassin 120. These two will also cause less trouble with compatibility too.
• If you want to use a big air cooler, it's probably better to use a MATX Motherboard.
• NH-D15S and FC140 while using some motherboards, will impact mounting 12025mm fans, maybe only 12015mm will fit, due to the heatsink asymmetrical design.
• Flipping the FC140 will allow top mounted 12025mm fans, but will come very close to the GPU. Removing the GPU might be a tough chore.
• If using ASUS's B550 boards with a bigger GPU, you might need to use 12015mm fans at the bottom instead, as their x16 PCIe slot occupies the second physical PCIe slot on your case, thus your GPU will be sitting closer to the bottom of the case.
• ASUS's B550 boards have their CPU socket position slightly lower than the other manufactures like MSI's, Gigabyte etc. This would also mean that top mounted 12025mm fans might be possible with a D15(S).

Gecko Mini Computer does a way better explanation than me with pictures.

Note: Cooler is mounted in it's 'normal' orientation.

Bonus: Look at how close the heatsink is to the GPU, with the heatsink flipped.

Build/Cooling Options that I tested:​

For my build, I have stuck with a MATX motherboard, the MSI B550M Mortar Wifi, a SFX PSU from Cooler Master, a 5800X cooled by Thermalright's Frost Commander 140 Black. As for the GPU, it's AMD's reference Radeon 6800 XT Midnight Black.

Right now, it's only the vented panel versus the tempered glass panel. Top fans are configured as exhaust, bottom fans as intake, CPU fans and rear fan are exhausting towards the rear of the case.

If using the solid front panel, it might be more worth it to have the fans intake from the rear instead and just add a dust filter for the rear fan mount (one is provided).

I tried the side bracket and managed to fit a 80mm fan on the side, but please don't do it. It doesn't help thermals by much, and adds noise, and hassle. Just don't.

(How many fans do I want? Yes. Also, check out the taller feet I had installed for testing)

Am thinking of testing my NH-D15S in the case to see if there are any faults with my cooler, but that also depends on how lazy I am, but at the same time, I am pending a couple of SSDs and some Phanteks Halos to arrive, and that will require me to almost disassemble the case, so I might do the change then. Also, I might be reversing the rear fan and CPU fans to intake from the rear will have any impact on thermals.

Stay tuned (maybe?).

Thermals
It's great. I might have gimped the performance of my FC140 Black by not using the included 140mm fan, opting for 3x 120mm fans instead. It was mainly for a more aesthetically pleasing look for myself, although the 140mm fan might have come in contact with the GPU as well.

In my experience, the 5800X runs hot, and loves to run hot without any heed to your cooling solution. Maybe except 360mm AIOs or bigger.

For my results, I have limited my chip to the following values with PBO and Curve Optimizer:

PPT:135W
TDC: 85A
EDC: 125A
Curve Optimizer: -10 on best 2 cores, -15 on other 6 cores, +100 MHz boost.

Temperatures wise, it ranges from 80C to 84C (with ambient being around 30C to 33C) with Cinebench R23 runs, while boosting to around 4525 MHz all cores. While gaming in Days Gone, CPU temps are around 71C.

GPU temperatures are ok, with 3 fans feeding the card fresh air. My 6800 XT is undervolted via Radeon software; to the settings of 1075 mV, 2300 - 2400 MHz, with a slightly more aggressive fan curve. While gaming in Days Gone, GPU temperatures are at 65C overall. In all honesty, the front 90mm fan probably doesn't help too much, but I just like to fit up all the fan slots.

In my limited tests, the TG panel favors GPU temperatures a little more, whereas the vented panel has better CPU temperatures.

Details of my Cinebench R23, Heaven, TimeSpy benchmark scores and thermals can be found in my spreadsheet here.

Noise​

The TG panel provides more noise insulation compared to the vented panel, and it's noticeable at medium loads.

At high loads, because of my crazy configuration of 8 Thermalright TL-B12 Extrems that can go up to 3150 RPM, it's pretty noisy at full blast, but tons of air is being moved too. The front 90mm fan does not cause any noise that is noticeable above the other fans.

Some thoughts​

• Screws. Many, many screws. Too many screws. (Or the NR200 has spoiled me in tool-less panel removals).
• Aligning the dust filters and trying to screw down the panels can be a hassle.
• Too many choices in hardware configuration can be a pain.
• Can be tougher to get, only either via Taobao, Aliexpress and Superbuy/Agents
• No space/channels for me to put my phanteks led strips.
• I don't personally like the stock feet that came with the case. Changed it out to some other aluminum feet that I had. I had even taller ones that actually helped GPU temps by a couple of degrees actually, but it looked too weird.

Why move from the NR200 to this case? And conclusion.​

Even though it's around the same size, the C28 can fit bigger components, like an ATX PSU (without an additional bracket), MATX motherboards and bigger tower coolers. It seems like there is less space 'wasted', as the margins are closer, like the fans are right at the edge of the case. Front USB C does help a little, if you are into that.

As well, the bigger compatibility should hopefully make future upgrades not so painful on the wallet, as one doesn't have to pay the ITX premium size tax. And if GPUs decide to go even thicker to 4 slots, this case should be alright with that as well.

So why not a smaller case? This is still too large! I personally favor big, dual tower coolers and not using a riser cable for my GPU, so that's why I find the C28 a good option. Other cases that can fit such limitations are just the JOAT, Sliger S620, Sunmilo C01, Minichariot Z2, or go bigger than 20L and each case has their own pros and cons. Like any other case.

Overall, I like the case and it performs great thermally (to me at least).

Hope it's helpful for anyone looking for reviews, happy to answer questions and cheers!