Stalled Mosaik - Klotz: 18.9L (prev. 18.6L) Case for Large Air and Liquid Coolers With Minimalistic Design

adesignaddict

Trash Compacter
Original poster
Feb 9, 2020
40
68
www.mosaikcases.com
  • ATX PSU support
    • I don't personally care about this at all. I would hate for you guys to waste money and time supporting this, as this is an SFF case and there are SFF power supplies.
  • Face Plates
    • I actually really like the look with the matching aluminum face plate. The feasability of supporting everything would definitely be hard so figuring this out makes sense. I know the wood panel was a main piece of this case, but it seems like selling several different wood panels as an accessory might make more senes financially? Since people have varying tastes I can't imagine a single stock wood panel would be satisfactory for everyone and they would instead be buying another panel to go with it. Where it seems like the aluminum panel is a safe stock option. Just a thought.
  • IO/feet
    • The new IO location looks nice, although it does seem like it could interfere with longer GPUs? I do like the idea of the option to change the port/cables like you described. Sadly this case is being designed in a time when there is not a solid standard for motherboard front IO compatibility. The feet look good to me, too high and it just looks really weird.
  • Inverted Core
    • The main appeal to me is the ability to use an Accelero III or a radiator under the GPU and have them exhaust out the top. Not for aesthetics or anything visual. That seems like a much better option than having to draw air in from the bottom of the case to me. If neither of those options are supported then inverting the core doesn't seem beneficial.
  • 3.5" HDD bracket
    • Nice to hear. i mainly asked about it because there seems to be a good chunk of empty space in the front next to the PSU. This is where the Ncase primarily mounts all their drives, so it seems like there is some possibility to make that space functional here.
  • Downsizing
    • Not a concern/interest to me. There are plenty of smaller and similar cases on the market. I don't see a need to make yourselves similar to them to then have to compete directly with them. This is still an SFF case and it fills a spot in the market that I personally havent found a fit for until I saw this case.
  • PSU cable
    • I don't mind where you guys have it, or by the gpu side. I would trust you guys to put it in the position that best supports compatibility with large tower coolers and gpus and what not so that it doesnt hinder any of the reasons the case is different - big coolers/fans/gpus
Appreciate the updates! Can't wait to see more
Thanks for your honest feedback.

  • ATX PSU Support
    • No worries, we'll only do this if there's enough interest. The way it fits in our case greatly affects what components can be used and it would quite honestly seem like a bit of a waste stuffing an ATX PSU in there and therefore limiting the performance of the rest of the system. But if a lack of support for it makes our case a dealbreaker for a lot of people then we would consider offering it.
  • Face Plates
    • The "only one wood type" statement was only in a worst-case situation. And even then, we would, of course, try to offer more options afterward. We personally also like the aluminum version and see this as a good alternative for people who aren't into the wood panel.
  • IO/Feet
    • It should be ok even for longer GPUs. Yeah, it's a real bummer that a lot of motherboards still don't have the newer connector.
    • Yeah we feel the same about the feet. We'll leave them as they were in the original concept for now and determine through testing with the prototype of if they need to be adjusted before the final release.
  • Inverted Core
    • That makes sense. We'll look into it.
  • 3.5" HDD Bracket
    • There is indeed some empty space there, but it serves two purposes: getting fresh air from a side-mounted fan to the CPU cooler in an air-cooled system, and providing enough room for the bends of the tubes on a radiator in a liquid-cooled system. The problem with 3.5" drives is that they are too long to mount horizontally into our case (well, they would get in the way of a beefy air cooler). So the only way to mount them would be vertically, probably to the side of the case to leave room underneath for long GPUs. However, that would mean: no support for 240/280mm radiators on the side bracket if using the 3.5" HDD bracket. And it would only fit with SFX/L PSUs, not with an ATX PSU as they occupy the same space. Not sure if that's worth it. We'll keep tinkering with it, but this is currently the only option to fit those drives.
  • Downsizing
    • Yes, exactly.
  • PSU Cable
    • Alright, we'll take care of it. Right now the best solution would be to have one position at the top and one next to the GPU to switch between. This way there should always be one option that'll work. So we'll try to offer that in the final case.
We'll share some renders of the updates once they are ready ;)
 

adesignaddict

Trash Compacter
Original poster
Feb 9, 2020
40
68
www.mosaikcases.com
Hello Mosaik-Team,
i also really like the aestetics of your case and you got my interest. I have two suggestions for this case and want to agree to some of others:

1. You really should design the case in a way, that you are free to turn it 180° and have the gpu at the top!
2. Support 140mm fans on the bottom/top. It seams there is enough room for it. Even if someone want to use 120mm, more cut-outs = more air-flow. 140mm = more quiet = sellingpoint of this case.
3. Idea for better cable management: leave more room between the sidepanel and the psu (15mm), by putting the psu more towards the center of the case. In comparison with the M1, there should be enough space to do so. So SFF builders have ATX freedom... another sellingpoint of your case :)
4. Case feed: I really like the apple like case feed of your ATX Version. Would a smaller Version of them not fit this case also very nice? A render would be awesome.
5. Font I/O: I really liked the first iteration a lot better. But the idea of exchanging the cables is very nice. Couldn't you come up if a innovation to get both done? :)
6. Not possible and not your goal, i know... but to make it a dreamcase: Exchangeable back to allow sandwich + a shell with a window in it.
Hey there :)

Awesome, glad to hear that. And thanks for your suggestions!

Some initial thoughts:

1. We'd like that but right now it would mean a redesign of the entire case, without a guarantee that it would even work, as there are some aspects that just simply don't work out.
2. Yes, 140mm fans would technically fit in that space, however, the fans are mounted by installing the screws on the outside of the bottom panel of the inner chassis, making the screw heads stick out instead of being flush with the panel. Since the inner chassis slides into the exterior shell on those two bends that also hold the feet of the case, the screws of a 140mm wide fan would catch on those bends. This would result in the inner chassis not sliding into the exterior shell properly and also damage the powder coating of it over time. That, overall, would result in a pretty unsatisfactory experience. If we can find a fix for it before launch we'll obviously incorporate it, but until then we'd rather not risk it.
3. Are you referring to the SFX or ATX with the 15mm extra room?
4. Haha, thx. We actually tried those right away, but unfortunately, it did not work with the aesthetics of this case.
5. Yeah we totally understand you. Aesthetically, we also preferred the first iteration, however, the argument against it because of dangling cables makes sense. Also, the USB cables just don't fit there and a custom solution would end up costing the user more.
6. Hehe, while we understand it, windows are definitely something that's not on our list of things to include. Personal choice here, but also a technical one. Sorry to disappoint you. Oh and a sandwich layout would make little sense in our case as you'd just have a lot of unused space that way. But maybe a future product in our lineup if this works out :)
 
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Sijnk

Chassis Packer
Apr 2, 2019
14
8
Hi Addict :)

thx for your detailed reply. At your questions:
3. Are you referring to the SFX or ATX with the 15mm extra room?
I am referring to the SFX. I know, that cables, which are hidden between the SFX and the casewall, would limiting airflow for the psu. But i think, there would be still enough room to breath.
My idea is: If you go for the wide width to fit a big aircooler, maybe you can use the additional room in the PSU area to allow cablemanagement behind the psu. Something you normally see in ATX Cases, but you don't in SFF Cases because of the compact sizes.

@180°: I know you have to come up with new solutions to make it work, but i think it will be turn off many sff users if this is not possible. If you look optimum tech's results with the M1, the Ghost or the T1, you will understand why its important.
@140mm bottom: Of course, this is a nice to have future. But it would specify your product even more and also give the potential buyer the compesation for the size tradeoff.

Do you have any news also for your ATX Version? Would be nice to have a threat like this one for the ATX as well.
 

Fitchew

Trash Compacter
Feb 2, 2019
43
22
2. Yes, 140mm fans would technically fit in that space, however, the fans are mounted by installing the screws on the outside of the bottom panel of the inner chassis, making the screw heads stick out instead of being flush with the panel. Since the inner chassis slides into the exterior shell on those two bends that also hold the feet of the case, the screws of a 140mm wide fan would catch on those bends. This would result in the inner chassis not sliding into the exterior shell properly and also damage the powder coating of it over time. That, overall, would result in a pretty unsatisfactory experience. If we can find a fix for it before launch we'll obviously incorporate it, but until then we'd rather not risk it.
Anti-vibration rubber fan mounting pins.
 

harry2009

Chassis Packer
Apr 2, 2018
15
22
Hello Mosaik-Team,

can you check if it is possible to include in the design the possibility to mount a Raijintek Morpheus with 120x25mm ?
 

adesignaddict

Trash Compacter
Original poster
Feb 9, 2020
40
68
www.mosaikcases.com
Hello Mosaik-Team,

can you check if it is possible to include in the design the possibility to mount a Raijintek Morpheus with 120x25mm ?
Hey,

so, unfortunately, the Rajintek Morpheus is slightly too thick for our case. The Accelero 3 would theoretically fit according to our measurements, but we need to test it first with a prototype.
 
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adesignaddict

Trash Compacter
Original poster
Feb 9, 2020
40
68
www.mosaikcases.com
Hi Addict :)

thx for your detailed reply. At your questions:
3. Are you referring to the SFX or ATX with the 15mm extra room?
I am referring to the SFX. I know, that cables, which are hidden between the SFX and the casewall, would limiting airflow for the psu. But i think, there would be still enough room to breath.
My idea is: If you go for the wide width to fit a big aircooler, maybe you can use the additional room in the PSU area to allow cablemanagement behind the psu. Something you normally see in ATX Cases, but you don't in SFF Cases because of the compact sizes.

@180°: I know you have to come up with new solutions to make it work, but i think it will be turn off many sff users if this is not possible. If you look optimum tech's results with the M1, the Ghost or the T1, you will understand why its important.
@140mm bottom: Of course, this is a nice to have future. But it would specify your product even more and also give the potential buyer the compesation for the size tradeoff.

Do you have any news also for your ATX Version? Would be nice to have a threat like this one for the ATX as well.
Ah I see, thanks for the clarification regarding the extra room behind the PSU. We'd like to leave enough room for the bends of radiator tubes to fit in that space, so as not to cause damage to them over prolonged periods of time. But we'll look into it.

Unfortunately, we don't have any news regarding our ATX design yet. We're still waiting on the manufacturer we've contacted.
 

manoueltiger

Caliper Novice
Mar 10, 2020
28
21
please don't change your build because someone want something etc...
Because you won't satisfy everyone whatever you will do and you will lose time.

I think (IMO) you should continue like that because everyone want to have a ncase M1 or sidearm T1 like and it's stupid...
Some ask you why don't you make a sandwich case but you are right ! Don't do that ! Let them buy these case, they exist so why do you need to a new iteration of these case.

That why your case is interesting, you made something different and that what I was looking for and I'm really fond of your project.
You create something really different and I'm saying you thanks for that !

I saw 3 cases in vertical layout (the P1 :p) but the developement will be too long because too many people pollute the topic with weird request like a 360mm rad ... or make it horizontal while it's a vertical project ...
Or a nzxt h1 clone !

So continue making something different and innovating
 

adesignaddict

Trash Compacter
Original poster
Feb 9, 2020
40
68
www.mosaikcases.com
please don't change your build because someone want something etc...
Because you won't satisfy everyone whatever you will do and you will lose time.

I think (IMO) you should continue like that because everyone want to have a ncase M1 or sidearm T1 like and it's stupid...
Some ask you why don't you make a sandwich case but you are right ! Don't do that ! Let them buy these case, they exist so why do you need to a new iteration of these case.

That why your case is interesting, you made something different and that what I was looking for and I'm really fond of your project.
You create something really different and I'm saying you thanks for that !

I saw 3 cases in vertical layout (the P1 :p) but the developement will be too long because too many people pollute the topic with weird request like a 360mm rad ... or make it horizontal while it's a vertical project ...
Or a nzxt h1 clone !

So continue making something different and innovating
Thank you for this :)

I totally get what you're saying and don't worry, we'll only make changes where it really benefits the flexibility of the case.

We're always trying to find a balance, so we try to approach it with these thoughts in mind: "does this make sense to include/change and if so, what's the drawback? how much needs to change for it to work and is it worth it or even possible to do so?"

We don't want to design a case in isolation that ends up being no use to anyone and that's why we ask for feedback. At the same time, we can't make every wish come true. Striking a balance between the two ensures that, hopefully, a lot of people will be happy with this case.

But ultimately, yes, we want this case to come to fruition and not stall because of a never-ending development cycle. We'll rather bring the case to market sooner and iterate on it over time than not have it be realized at all.

So rest assured, we'll try to stay on course.
 

kazuma86

Airflow Optimizer
Jan 12, 2020
253
160
please don't change your build because someone want something etc...
Because you won't satisfy everyone whatever you will do and you will lose time.

I think (IMO) you should continue like that because everyone want to have a ncase M1 or sidearm T1 like and it's stupid...
Some ask you why don't you make a sandwich case but you are right ! Don't do that ! Let them buy these case, they exist so why do you need to a new iteration of these case.

That why your case is interesting, you made something different and that what I was looking for and I'm really fond of your project.
You create something really different and I'm saying you thanks for that !

I saw 3 cases in vertical layout (the P1 :p) but the developement will be too long because too many people pollute the topic with weird request like a 360mm rad ... or make it horizontal while it's a vertical project ...
Or a nzxt h1 clone !

So continue making something different and innovating
waiting your order for this case :D
 

Gerold

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Bronze Supporter
Mar 19, 2020
124
147
www.instagram.com
regarding the front IO / usb-c compatibility issue, there are also internal adapters like this one by raijintek.
Maybe something to consider to leave it to people themselves. If they need it they can buy it, or possibly make a deal with a distributor of said adapters.
You could still go with the initial IO design and it would be more future proof, as you don't sit on the 3.0 to usb-c cable then (if one decided for at first).
 
Last edited:

adesignaddict

Trash Compacter
Original poster
Feb 9, 2020
40
68
www.mosaikcases.com
regarding the front IO / usb-c compatibility issue, there are also internal adapters like this one by raijintek.
Maybe something to consider to leave it to people themselves. If they need it they can buy it, or possibly make a deal with a distributor of said adapters.
You could still go with the initial IO design and it would be more future proof, as you don't sit on the 3.0 to usb-c cable then (if one decided for at first).
Thanks! That would definitely be a good alternative. We're currently looking into the possibility of making the front I/O work in a similar position as the original concept, but mirrored to the other side (so, horizontal orientation and top right corner), while still maintaining the swappable USB Type C cables.
 
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saxovtsmike

Chassis Packer
Feb 25, 2020
17
11
is the rear Fan a 120 or 140 ? Latter would make the case suitable (=Wide enough) for my GPU (watercooled very tall custom pcb Gaming X-1080Ti)
 

adesignaddict

Trash Compacter
Original poster
Feb 9, 2020
40
68
www.mosaikcases.com
is the rear Fan a 120 or 140 ? Latter would make the case suitable (=Wide enough) for my GPU (watercooled very tall custom pcb Gaming X-1080Ti)
It's a 120mm, but it's not positioned all the way to the outer edge of the case because we wanted it to fit in combination with our side mount for use with a fan. There's a good amount of clearance for taller cards (a 140mm tall GPU still has around 35mm of room to spare for the power connectors on the side).
 
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saxovtsmike

Chassis Packer
Feb 25, 2020
17
11
It's a 120mm, but it's not positioned all the way to the outer edge of the case because we wanted it to fit in combination with our side mount for use with a fan. There's a good amount of clearance for taller cards (a 140mm tall GPU still has around 35mm of room to spare for the power connectors on the side).
A exact measurement would be awsome
My personal problem is 65mm taller as the PCI Bracket, which barely fits into my Define R6, which has a 140mm Fan in the rear above the Mainboard IO shield.
That´s the reason I asked for the 140mm Fan, cause that´s a Quick and easy way of checking if my gpu would fit in a rather normal Hardware layout.