Looking for advice/ideas on psu setup for 12v automotive and 120 volt home build

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Caliper Novice
Original poster
Apr 4, 2019
22
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Hi All,

Long time lurker, newbie member and SFF builder. Been wanting to do this build for a while and now it has become somewhat critical professionally because of the amount of 3D modeling work I need to do. (autodesk stuff that requires cpu threads and gpu ram more than high frequency speeds.)

Short story:
I need a work computer in my van and at my home, I do not need or desire to work in coffee shops (so no laptop). I am looking to setup a PSU for a SFF build that allows me to plug in to an efficient "12v" source in my van to maximize the time I can work on the vans auxiliary batteries and then unplug the computer and take the box inside and plug it into a brick adapter attached to the homes 120v.

The current build specs of the box...
-Ryzen 2700 65 watt
-Asrock Fatal1ty B450 Gaming-ITX/ac 30 watt?
-Crucial 32gb ddr4-3000 cl15 (two 16gb sticks) 10 watt?
-Samsung 960 evo m.2 2280 3x4 250gb 5.3 watt
-Zotac gtx1060 6gb mini 120 watt
-231 watt maximum draw

option 1:
Currently planning on running two picu psu 160xt's connected by an ADD2PSU adapter. One psu for mobo and one for gpu.

In the house I would be powering both pico psu with a single 240w 12v brick. (does that sound reasonable?)

In the van my power source would be a 12v deep cycle battery>running to a buck converter with specs of 20amps and input voltage range of 6v-to-20v and an output of 12v.

( This is a 15amp unit similar to what I'm looking for as a 20 amp buck converter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GFVI6R6/?tag=theminutiae-20 )

Option 2:

Run M4-atx 250 psu from mini-box instead of the two 160xt pico's. This appears it will run fine on the van's variable voltage AND on a 240w 12v power brick. Is that assumption correct?

http://www.mini-box.com/M4-ATX?sc=8&category=981

It seems this would run fine on the deep cycle batteries in the van with no buck converter or anything in between (other than a 20amp fuse for safety). Maybe I should still run a buck converter just to make the m4-atx psu do "less" work converting voltage?

I'm VERY open to thoughts and opinions. I'll also post the final functioning build here since after searching I don't think anyone has posted a diy for a SFF that runs on 12v source in a vehicle AND on 120v/12v brick adapter in a home.

p.s. I'm very open to the option of underclocking both the cpu to 45watts and the gpu to 1050ti ish wattage (if that's possible) I'd actually love to have a setting like this to switch to when the vans battery drops to low.

Thanks for any input and ideas! Cheers!
 

Thehack

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Okay.

So let me get this straight. You are using two Pico 160XT and two ac-dc brick correct?

The Add2psu is mainly for using two acdc bricks. And it gets kinda complicated.

The m4atx is "250W" but really is only more like 180W based on their 12V rail. Since 12V is the primary rail you should base your power consumption on that.

You should go with a single kit and a single ac-dc brick and a buck boost converter. Either the hdplex and use a 19V buck boost, or the 12V Distro 400 here: https://j-hackcompany.com/?product=one2-distro-400
 

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Caliper Novice
Original poster
Apr 4, 2019
22
14
I see your point on needing the 1 ac-dc brick per pico psu. hauling 2 ac-dc bricks around would not be fun or okay.

I was sort of thinking I'd split the 12v source once it came into the computers box and run inline 10-15 amp diodes to keep the 12v feed to each pico seperate (is that crazy? theoretically would work?)...although admittedly I've never used diodes on something as mission critical as this, just on hobbiest L.e.d. projects

however...your one2 distro 400 sounds and looks awesome and I love wago connections. You are making me want to upgrade to a 1070 or bigger already... does the distro 400 clean the incoming 12v a lot? Would it enable me to use a cheaper quality 250w ac-dc brick? What is the 12v input voltage range it will work with?
 

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Caliper Novice
Original poster
Apr 4, 2019
22
14
On the van side of things...

The voltage input range I'm looking to use is 12.18v as my low
(12.18v is 50% of battery power)
14.3v as my high
(14.3v is the max I should see if I run off a battery source being charged by an alternator simultaneously)

...I haven't figured out what the buck boost converter output needs to be at. I'll need to measure the voltage on a good 12v 250w ac-dc brick and use that number to adjust the buck boosters output to match (12.5 volt??)

Buck Booster Converters I've found so far...
I'm unsure which is more appropriate, this is a 900w 15amp max.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GFVI6R6/?tag=theminutiae-20

this one is 1500w 20amp max but it says for over 15amp to increase cooling...sounds shady so i'll probably keep looking
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076TTBKFG/?tag=theminutiae-20
 

Thehack

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I see your point on needing the 1 ac-dc brick per pico psu. hauling 2 ac-dc bricks around would not be fun or okay.

I was sort of thinking I'd split the 12v source once it came into the computers box and run inline 10-15 amp diodes to keep the 12v feed to each pico seperate (is that crazy? theoretically would work?)...although admittedly I've never used diodes on something as mission critical as this, just on hobbiest L.e.d. projects

however...your one2 distro 400 sounds and looks awesome and I love wago connections. You are making me want to upgrade to a 1070 or bigger already... does the distro 400 clean the incoming 12v a lot? Would it enable me to use a cheaper quality 250w ac-dc brick? What is the 12v input voltage range it will work with?

Yes. The Distro 400 does input filtering. It is a 12V input only, so you will need 12V.

On the van side of things...

The voltage input range I'm looking to use is 12.18v as my low
(12.18v is 50% of battery power)
14.3v as my high
(14.3v is the max I should see if I run off a battery source being charged by an alternator simultaneously)

...I haven't figured out what the buck boost converter output needs to be at. I'll need to measure the voltage on a good 12v 250w ac-dc brick and use that number to adjust the buck boosters output to match (12.5 volt??)

Buck Booster Converters I've found so far...
I'm unsure which is more appropriate, this is a 900w 15amp max.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GFVI6R6/?tag=theminutiae-20

this one is 1500w 20amp max but it says for over 15amp to increase cooling...sounds shady so i'll probably keep looking
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076TTBKFG/?tag=theminutiae-20

LOL, where you're talking about power input 12V stuff is... Twelve volt exactly. Only batteries have a voltage range because the of their nature being batteries. As capacity decreases, so does the voltage and it fluctuates.

I think you should get an inverter that is capable of the output you need. You lose out some efficiency because of converting two times but it gives you freedom in all your other devices. For example how will you power your monitor?
 
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Caliper Novice
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Well that 12v input is exactly 12v info is amazing to me, I can see me newbie sff builder skills are showing :D. I'm so use to automotive 12v where 12v is slang for a "range" of input voltage. This 12v computer stuff is awesome to learn though, I like it! Much more exact and to the point. Thanks for the input and knowledge drop!

I read through your thread at hard forums labeled "PROJECT ONE2 (12V Distribution board)" Super good read on your distro 400 and you touch on the RV/VAN 12v stuff so thought it'd be good to leave here for others to read/reference in the future.

Monitor power will be 12v also. Using a Samsung 28" 4k monitor (they are the only name brand 12v monitors I've found, any others people know of?) Plan is to have another converter for the monitor, a duplicate. Although it will be overkill for use on the monitor my thought is if one goes bad in the future I can easily test by trying the other converter.
 

Thehack

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Well that 12v input is exactly 12v info is amazing to me, I can see me newbie sff builder skills are showing :D. I'm so use to automotive 12v where 12v is slang for a "range" of input voltage. This 12v computer stuff is awesome to learn though, I like it! Much more exact and to the point. Thanks for the input and knowledge drop!

I read through your thread at hard forums labeled "PROJECT ONE2 (12V Distribution board)" Super good read on your distro 400 and you touch on the RV/VAN 12v stuff so thought it'd be good to leave here for others to read/reference in the future.

Monitor power will be 12v also. Using a Samsung 28" 4k monitor (they are the only name brand 12v monitors I've found, any others people know of?) Plan is to have another converter for the monitor, a duplicate. Although it will be overkill for use on the monitor my thought is if one goes bad in the future I can easily test by trying the other converter.

In that situation, you need two buck/boost convertor then or one really powerful. I would look into maybe marine applications or more RV stuff. I'm still of the opinion that going with an inverter would be best. More freedom later down the road.

A lot of monitors now have integrated ac-dc.

Vehicle 12V is not my specialty so I can't comment on it. I do know that 12V is generally 13-14V when charged.

You will also have to switch to alternator power so your battery bank can charge, assuming you're in a van office type with a separate battery bank so you don't have to run the engine when working. I'm not sure how that side of things will work out.
 
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Choidebu

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Easiest I can recommend is to go M4-ATX, drop to 1050ti or undervolt the 1060.

Going hdplex or one2 distro will require you getting a good, high amperage buck boost circuit because in addition to having to deal with high voltages when the alternator's charging your battery, I believe it can also dip beyond 12V, for example when starting the engine or when the a/c 's cranking. Idk much about recent modern cars, but at least 10 years ago it still was like that.

About monitors, get some 12V out from the pc - bonus feature it'll turn on when your pc is on, almost like a laptop.
 
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Thehack

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Easiest I can recommend is to go M4-ATX, drop to 1050ti or undervolt the 1060.

Going hdplex or one2 distro will require you getting a good, high amperage buck boost circuit because in addition to having to deal with high voltages when the alternator's charging your battery, I believe it can also dip beyond 12V, for example when starting the engine or when the a/c 's cranking. Idk much about recent modern cars, but at least 10 years ago it still was like that.

About monitors, get some 12V out from the pc - bonus feature it'll turn on when your pc is on, almost like a laptop.

It should work fine. The point of a buck boost is that it can take a large voltage range and output a set voltage. PC also has a working voltage of 11.4 to 12.4V anyways so you also have some wiggle room there.

AC kicks on using the auxiliary belt, so shouldn't affect alternator power much. You also wouldn't run the pc when the vehicle is off unless you're running a secondary bank. It'd drain the battery way too fast. Chopping off 50W wouldn't save you much. People have been running 300-500W sound systems in the cars for years just fine.

The only thing I'm worried about is a PC is picky about its power. If you're not using a secondary bank as a buffer or a fat capacitor, a power dip may cause stability issues.
 
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Choidebu

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I've actually been keeping an eye for a similar solution to power my portable-ish ~180W pc in the car. I got stuck in one thing: the fact that car cigarette plug is only rated for 15A which means I'm right at the limit.

The only problem is finding a good buck boost (that fits my case too) since I'm on hdplex boat, 16-24V.
 
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Caliper Novice
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Apr 4, 2019
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Love the idea of running the monitor off the psu. I think I will go after that and try...

In sad news the best buck booster I could find can only supply a steady 12v at 8 amps and I'd really prefer to have a 12v 20amp source to draw from.

It's called a " Neuron technologies step up/down converter udc-2812-2 " one on eBay for $25 of anyone wants to reverse engineer it and see if the amps can be increased...

Link to pdf of specs:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw04R9O7645dMhryqa4N9FQl

So since I can't get a stable 12v 20amp buck/booster (step up/down converter) looks like I'll be going the route suggested of using a 12v to 19v booster... Probably running the 19v to an hdplex 400 since I can't figure out how to order a pico box x300, no add to cart option on there site.

I picked up two 6 volt deep cycle golf cart batteries from Costco today. They output 210amp hours at 12v wired in series. I only intend to draw 50% of power max before recharging them from solar panels. Converting to 19v my efficiency will be 90%¿?... So I should get 4.7 hours of full tilt computing out of one charge oi I draw 20amps per hour.

Hopefully as parts start arriving this thread will get more fun with pictures.
 

Thehack

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You know,

If you use 6-8V nominal voltage, you can wire 3 in a series... You can just run it straight with no conversion to hdplex or similae 16-24v dc atx.

The problem then becomes recharging them and making sure the batteries are balanced. Which I guess can simple be done as a deep discharge every couple of months.
 
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Caliper Novice
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Apr 4, 2019
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That's a great point and I will definitely package protect for it when I make the battery box so if I decide to add more batteries. I have a feeling in the end the solution will be different from what I'm imagining, i just need to remind myself to stay flexible.

These 6v golf cart interstate brand batteries are $115 each(after tax and core charge) and SUPER heavy so placing them in the van is a concern, they need to well ventilated, as low and center as possible and have protection from stone throw off the tires.
 

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If anyone happens to go through a store with 32" or less 4k displays (tv or monitor) I'd be interested if anyone finds any using a 12v dc input. so far 24" dell monitors are the only 12v displays I've found. My perfect scenario would be find a 28" 4k 12v which i thought Samsung made, but apparently they do not (all 19v now).

Once this all done I'll post a list of the 12v, 14v and 19v displays I've identified.
 
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Windfall

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As an Autodesk Inventor and Fusion 360 user, I would recommend a workstation card. My Quadro p400 performed better in inventor than my 1050 Ti, BECAUSE drivers. Pro drivers are optimized so much better, it's insane. I would get a Quadro P1000, P2000, or an AMD WX4100/5100. I'm running a 4100 right now, and it's amazing.

As for a processor, I use an i7 8700t, but what you have should work great.

Just swap that GTX 1060 for a near-price equivalent WS card. You won't regret it. The ones I listed don't even need an external power connector.

Also, I like your username.
 
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Choidebu

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If anyone happens to go through a store with 32" or less 4k displays (tv or monitor) I'd be interested if anyone finds any using a 12v dc input. so far 24" dell monitors are the only 12v displays I've found. My perfect scenario would be find a 28" 4k 12v which i thought Samsung made, but apparently they do not (all 19v now).

Once this all done I'll post a list of the 12v, 14v and 19v displays I've identified.

Scratch my reply above, please do not power these displays straight from the pc, if you find one, of course...
 
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I found this old Lian Li case and it just happen to be the perfect size for an itx board, zotac mini 1060 and hdplus 500...





j.k. this is my one day hack and slash of my old Lian Li. I still need to finish lids and air holes for gpu fan. I thought it came out looking more "decentish" than I originally intended. Heavily inspired by the NFC S4 Mini but it is sold out at the moment :( and the logisystems one would still need mods for ventilation so figured might as well build my own rather than buy something new AND cut in to it as soon as it arrives.

here's what it started life as... not sure why this photo uploads sideways and the others don't.
 

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Just wanted to rant a little...I never in a million years thought the most difficult part of this project would be trying to install windows 7 onto a Samsung NVME drive. It looks like they modified their driver exe so you can't extract the driver anymore from the exe. I have another evening of hunting down nvme drive to look forward to our buckle and cave to the desires of Microsoft and buy a new license of windows 10 and hope all my software will work on it. I'm fairly unskilled on the software side of things so I'm wondering if I should take on the task of learning how to create an unattended windows 7 installation file. It would be nice to have in the future any time I want a fresh install.

The comp is powered and booting though (hooray!). I have a MUCH greater appreciation of everyone who has created sub 5L enclosures. this one is 5.44L as of today and it's almost too tight. Makes me want an NFC S4 MINI even more now :D