Motherboard Incoming AM4 Mini-ITX boards

[Karamazovmm]

Ah, I forgot some USB are off the CPU.

So I guess the SATA like you mentioned and the X370 could potentially do bifurcation are the only differences.

I'm not really sure that there are USB connections from the CPU, I know that it delivers some of its pcie lanes to the chipset (pcie3 x4) and that the chipset does the distribution for ethernet, sata, USB, audio and other stuff

However if we take a look at the X300 and the A300 you can see that there are 4x usb 3.1 gen1 there, but Im not entirely sure its just a passthrough thing or if it needs to make them USB.

Bifurcation is one thing that I truly forgot, but for me the main difference between the chipsets is how many sata you are going to use and that is if you are using nvme (and you should )

But that restriction in itself is of concern for those more high end and expensive offerings of nvme, I can only think samsung and corsair that are using those speeds (im quite sure there are like 300 other devices and companies that use that).

My intel 600p should do quite alright given its speeds.

 

[jeshikat]

Ok. There's 4x USB 3.0 off the CPU plus x4 lanes that can either be dedicated to M.2 or split 2x M.2 lanes and 2x SATA ports.

The B350 chipset had 4x SATA ports and all the ITX AM4 boards only have 4x SATA. So they use the chipset for the SATA so the M.2 is always at x4.

 

[PlayfulPhoenix]

Hey everyone, we're making a new thread to delineate conversation about these different boards, starting with ASRock: https://smallformfactor.net/forum/t...tx-ac-and-b350-gaming-itx-ac.2341/#post-48886

But please feel free to continue using this thread for comparing the different boards and discussing any new boards that show up.

James says that if he can find the time tomorrow morning he will try to get pictures of the Gigabyte board posted.

Thank you.

 

[yoanguila]

Guys i found this: the new Gigabyte ab350 n Gaming

 

[Karamazovmm]

Ok. There's 4x USB 3.0 off the CPU plus x4 lanes that can either be dedicated to M.2 or split 2x M.2 lanes and 2x SATA ports.

The B350 chipset had 4x SATA ports and all the ITX AM4 boards only have 4x SATA. So they use the chipset for the SATA so the M.2 is always at x4.

exactly, I can foresee the impact coming from 2x nvme, that may as well be the why that we dont see those kind of boards.

There may be a need to allocate the rest of the pcie lanes that the cpu has and put them for that, and doing so entails more engineering time.

 

[jeshikat]

Made a Gigabyte thread, pics linked there: https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/gigabyte-ab350n-gaming-wifi.2343/

 

[Pelican]

Can anyone explain why physical rear USB ports are so few on these mobos? Why does it seem like each mobo has a trade off? I've got my old Asus P8Z77-i Deluxe mobo next to me and it seems feature rich in comparison. You'd expect these gaming Ryzen boards to be targetting the high end and cramming in as much as possible.

Is there a technical reason that the boards seem more limited than Intel itx boards, or is it possibly due to rushing out a product / business tactics?

 

[jeshikat]

I think it's due to ththe B350 chipset. According to this it only has 2x USB 3.0 off the chipset: https://rog.asus.com/articles/techn...latform-and-its-x370-b350-and-a320-chipsets/#

 

[szymon247]

What is the problem with the Gigabyte board layout? I understand it might not be perfect for vertically mounted cases, but it seems to be quite great for cable management in something like the SG13 (minus the power connector locations). I like the Sata port locations and the rear I/O seems perfect. There seems to be some decent clearance around the socket, for peace of mind with some cooler solutions (and Noctua are already shipping the AM4 mounting kits for the l9a).
Plus, it has a decent wifi+bluetooth solution, great audio solution, VRMs look solid and most of all, by far the best USB setup.

The Realtek vs Intel LAN might be debatable, probably with a point in favor of the Asrock board for going with Intel, although I've never had any issues with Realtek in that area.

I will go for either the Gigabyte board or the Asrock board depending on which one comes first, unless the first reviews find something wrong with it or the price is outrageous. All things equal, due to personal preference I'd go with the Gigabyte board, even though it seems mostly on par with the Asrock board, trading blows depending on whether you care about certain aspects of board layout, Intel LAN, USBs etc. The Gigabyte board is also less.. red.
Both boards are, on paper, in the same ball park and a solid level above the Biostar board, across the board (pun).

 

[jeshikat]

The problem with the Gigabyte is in cases that have a non-removeable top panel that is up close to the top edge of the motherboard. It'll make accessing all those connectors difficult.

The 8-pin will be a absolute total pain to deal with for anyone with large top-down heatsink though, since it will be completely boxed in by the rear of the case, the heatsink, WiFi card, and rear IO.

 

[cadiguno]

Honestly I can understand why people don't see where Gigabyte went wrong -- and probably why that layout got approved in the first place. The Gigabyte board only translates as 'a pain in the ***' for SFF enthusiasts who go for cases 10L or less. Which is a minority in the grand scheme, but that's a lot of people in this very forum.

Maybe for the general public we look like aliens speaking in another language )

 

[Arboreal]

Honestly I can understand why people don't see where Gigabyte went wrong -- and probably why that layout got approved in the first place. The Gigabyte board only translates as 'a pain in the ***' for SFF enthusiasts who go for cases 10L or less. Which is a minority in the grand scheme, but that's a lot of people in this very forum.

Maybe for the general public we look like aliens speaking in another language )

Hmmmm, ITX is pretty much standard SFF material - why set a board up to make it hard to go in a small case???
We had problems with CPU slots too close to PCI-E slots a few generations ago, and that's now not a problem.

Maybe if you (as a board manufacturer) think that ITX cases like the Manta, Prodigy and Evolv ITX are properly representative of what people put ITX boards in, that's what you end up with.

I don't think that SFF is that niche any more, we've had SG05 cases for 8 years at ~11L, and they're regarded as pretty mainstream today.

In the meantime, things have become easier to cram powerful kit into smaller cases.

 

[Pelican]

Hmmmm, ITX is pretty much standard SFF material - why set a board up to make it hard to go in a small case???

Depends what you mean by "SFF" material. Many mainstream mini-itx gaming cases are notoriously large by SFF standards. For example, the Bitfenix Prodigy, NZXT Manta, and even Fractal's Define Nano S are actually pretty roomy, especially if you don't care for liquid cooling.

 

[Arboreal]

Depends what you mean by "SFF" material. Many mainstream mini-itx gaming cases are notoriously large by SFF standards. For example, the Bitfenix Prodigy, NZXT Manta, and even Fractal's Define Nano S are actually pretty roomy, especially if you don't care for liquid cooling.

What I meant was that most SFF, [as defined here on SFFF as <20L], builds are ITX based; and therefore the boards need to be 'small case' friendly.
Yes, we have some sub 20L mATX action, but ITX boards are most often used, unless you're using something really small like an eviscerated NUC!
Your comment about 'notoriously large' was spot on, and was exactly what I was trying to say about them. As I have said before, even the Fractal Define Nano S is BIG - it's pretty much the same size as my Silverstone TJ08, running an mATX setup.
As @Aibophobia pointed out, there are unhelpful board layouts and positions for things like the ATX 24pin socket, the 4/8 pin EPS socket and the USB 3.0 front port socket, can really help or hinder your build when you're in a cramped, err, properly sizes SFF build

 

[Pelican]

Oh sorry, I see that was your point in the second paragraph. I misunderstood.

 

[Boil]

Acceptable SFF, 20 liters or less...

REAL SFF, 10 liters or less...!

(...ITX MB & GPU based, of course...)

;^p

 

[NFSxperts]

What is the problem with the Gigabyte board layout? I understand it might not be perfect for vertically mounted cases, but it seems to be quite great for cable management in something like the SG13 (minus the power connector locations). I like the Sata port locations and the rear I/O seems perfect. There seems to be some decent clearance around the socket, for peace of mind with some cooler solutions (and Noctua are already shipping the AM4 mounting kits for the l9a).
Plus, it has a decent wifi+bluetooth solution, great audio solution, VRMs look solid and most of all, by far the best USB setup.

The problem with the Gigabyte is in cases that have a non-removeable top panel that is up close to the top edge of the motherboard. It'll make accessing all those connectors difficult.

The 8-pin will be a absolute total pain to deal with for anyone with large top-down heatsink though, since it will be completely boxed in by the rear of the case, the heatsink, WiFi card, and rear IO.

I agree with szymon.
Internal connector location largely depends on which case you have.
I actually prefer top connectors since cable management is easier for me.

Top connectors are great if the case has a front intake fan, (ie. SG05/13, LianLi TU series, CM Elite series) where all the cables would not be in the way of the airflow.

Front connectors are easier to access if the top of the case does not have an opening or if there are no fans at the front. The gap between the front of the motherboard to the front of the case is usually larger than the top side of the motherboard. If the connectors have to be at the front, the connectors should be angled 90 degrees so the cables don't just stick up.

I think we can all agree the location of the 8pin on the gigabyte is in the worst possible location.

 

[Boil]

If the connectors have to be at the front, the connectors should be angled 90 degrees so the cables don't just stick up.

No, just, no...

 

[jeshikat]

Yeah, 90 degree on the front makes a case like the M1 impossible because the SFX PSU is up against the front edge of the board.

 

[BirdofPrey]

If the connectors have to be at the front, the connectors should be angled 90 degrees so the cables don't just stick up.

Who cares if the wires stick up. The cables themselves are many many times easier to actually plug in when everything it's stupidly pointed into the front case panel. Add to that, when the various sockets point up you know the footprint needed for the motherboard is its actual stated dimensions rather than you having to add half an inch for the cable end and enough room to pretend you can plug it in with that confined space.