Just curious on your thoughts. I know benchmarks aren't really prevelant yet, but I'm still interested in your first opinions. I'm very interested in this NUC but I am concerned about whether they changed the form factor enough to address the heat and fan issues many people on skull canyon had. What do you guys think?
Do you guys think the hades canyon NUC is a step up, or more of the same?
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Doubtful on the cooling. If you watch the Linus Tech Tips video on the thing, he pulls out the cooling solution an it is pretty anemic for a 100W part. With its utilization of a blower style fan, if it is actually effective it will be noisy as all hell. The idea that they've left it as an unlocked chip and that it would be overclockable given the cooling they've included makes me chuckle. Here's hoping someone figures out an aftermarket case and cooling solution though because otherwise this platform is super compelling.
I agree, cooling will be the weak link in the chain. I hope AMD releases a 95w part in the Raven Ridge family. I'm personally not a fan of the price. $999 for the 'I7-8809G (GH)' enabled part? and I still have to add a drive and Ram?? no thank you.
Even if the R7 (95w) part cost $300, I would still consider that a win head to head.
Even if the R7 (95w) part cost $300, I would still consider that a win head to head.
A few days ago I was on the bandwagon for this thing 100%, but after giving it some thought, I think I'm going to stick with my current build. The cooler doesn't seem awfully big, and chances are it's a blower style fan, so once that thing gets hot, it'll probably be like running a vacuum cleaner in your computer. You also have to add your own memory and M.2, so you're looking at like an extra $250 minimum.
I am not that much worried about cooling. SimplyNuc guys said on pre-prod unit it is surprisingly quiet. But nobody knows what it really means.
Roughly Hades Canyon is using vapor chamber and about 3 times bigger heatsink with two fans - compare to Skull Canyon.
Here HC cooling is visible: https://hothardware.com/gallery/NewsItem/43214?image=big_hades_canyon_teardown.jpg&tag=popup
Anyway I placed my pre-order already so I will let you know soon in April how to cooling works ;-)
EDIT: Here are even better pictures: https://www.missingremote.com/news/2018/02/ces-2018-intel-hades-canyon-nuc-compute-card
Roughly Hades Canyon is using vapor chamber and about 3 times bigger heatsink with two fans - compare to Skull Canyon.
Here HC cooling is visible: https://hothardware.com/gallery/NewsItem/43214?image=big_hades_canyon_teardown.jpg&tag=popup
Anyway I placed my pre-order already so I will let you know soon in April how to cooling works ;-)
EDIT: Here are even better pictures: https://www.missingremote.com/news/2018/02/ces-2018-intel-hades-canyon-nuc-compute-card
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Nice! Best of luck, I've got my fingers crossed for you and the rest of us who are interested in this sexy little beast. Can't wait to see some reviews and if it's a winner I guess I'm going to have to decide between it and the Deskmini GTX.
From the Hades Canyon tear down article, it looks like heatsink should suffice.
I would think that two blower style fans pushing air across this could handle 100W. Noise? Well ... that's a little more iffy.... ever owned a gaming laptop?
I would think that two blower style fans pushing air across this could handle 100W. Noise? Well ... that's a little more iffy.... ever owned a gaming laptop?
Does anyone know the release date? The Intel website says Feb 2018, but we're pretty much at the end of Feb and nothing yet. I also can't find any other sources to backup that date.
A very comprehensive dismantle of the cooling solution can be seen here:-
I think this will be a good backup CAD workstation for me, & for use when out on site coupled to an ASUS MB16A potable monitor hooked up to one of the TB3 ports.
I think this will be a good backup CAD workstation for me, & for use when out on site coupled to an ASUS MB16A potable monitor hooked up to one of the TB3 ports.
skull canyon v. hades canyon cooling
. I had planned to build an SFF based on the Ryzen 5 2400G, the Realan E-W60 or 80 and after pricing all the parts out, it came to just under $1000USD. Ithe slower 65w Hades Canyon is much faster than the Ryzen and even after adding memory and M.2 the cost is only $250 more based on the parts I selected. I am buying not building.
Hello, I'm interested in your guy's general cooling expertise. I'm considering using this for a home project, eschewing the fans and drawing heat through the heat sink and fan grill. the premise being that the attached heat sink will be big enough to radiate enough heat to keep it cool. In theory, I wouldn't mind keeping some or all of the fans, but the idea behind this heat sink is to add additional cooling to a custom enclosure for my nuc that will not have as much free air flow. Ideally, I wouldn't need the fans at all
assuming you had thermal paste and a copper plate covering both the CPU heat sink and fan grills, would you be able to draw enough heat away with a sufficiently large heat sink? I'm worried about the potential for the custom heat sink to bottle neck, even if it could theoretically handle it. I'm also worried about the material on the back of the heat sink. in your fine images, it looks copper, but in the video, it looks black. would it be possible to apply thermal paste and draw heat efficiently from the other side of the heat sink? is this material some kind of paint or plastic?
assuming you had thermal paste and a copper plate covering both the CPU heat sink and fan grills, would you be able to draw enough heat away with a sufficiently large heat sink? I'm worried about the potential for the custom heat sink to bottle neck, even if it could theoretically handle it. I'm also worried about the material on the back of the heat sink. in your fine images, it looks copper, but in the video, it looks black. would it be possible to apply thermal paste and draw heat efficiently from the other side of the heat sink? is this material some kind of paint or plastic?
Been thinking of something similar too, torn between using the hades canyon or a zotac magnus box of some description, the advantage of the hades canyon being that it's a single chip to cool so won't need offsetting heights between the cpu and the mxm chip other options would require, though the nuc will be more expensive and ati graphics don't get on with some of the software I use.
Don't quite understand your plan however with attaching a heat sink to the existing one, can imagine having more interfaces between heat sinks will help with heat transfer. Personally I'd go for a large heat sink (200*200*50mm or so) to form the top of the case with an aluminium block between it and the apu, along the lines of what this fella does As far as heat capacity of the heat sink, the streacom fc8 has roughly half the surface area of the size I suggest and can comfortably deal with 65w so as long as the nuc is as efficient at intel says and goog contact is made between heat sink n apu it should work.
Don't quite understand your plan however with attaching a heat sink to the existing one, can imagine having more interfaces between heat sinks will help with heat transfer. Personally I'd go for a large heat sink (200*200*50mm or so) to form the top of the case with an aluminium block between it and the apu, along the lines of what this fella does As far as heat capacity of the heat sink, the streacom fc8 has roughly half the surface area of the size I suggest and can comfortably deal with 65w so as long as the nuc is as efficient at intel says and goog contact is made between heat sink n apu it should work.
getting a heat sink of the type I want probably wont be possible, no matter what I'll probably need to do, the chances that I could have a proper form fitting heat sink on the business end of it comparable to what already exists on the case is unlikely. though if that entire heat sink hits 131 f I'm unsure if my plan will be viable as my pc's heat sink probably wont be quite that bulky. It's more of a copper mesh of filigrees or framing onto a book binding. Copper is the superior choice for heat distribution right? its simply that aluminum is cheaper?
in any case the book binding design will be threaded through the spine into the custom case's hidden interior.
https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u...m/auctionpix/Band/Book_Safe_Small_Dis.jpg&f=1
to be something similar to this, but the size of a pretty big book (at least the dimensions of a notebook.) with the outer portion covered in a network of metal inlaid into the binding of the book, preferably copper. the business ends threaded through the spine to be attached to the heat sink like you see on many mobile laptop heat sinks.
The main question is how effective this idea is in terms of heat transfer, of adding the copper heat pipe to the opposite side of these heat sinks effectiveness, and any materials that may be coating this side of the heat sink that will be obstacles for efficient heat transfer.
https://cdn.globalauctionplatform.c...a1e2-a9cd-4e0c-edb6-5ed40cbe53fb/original.jpg
an example of the ""radiator"" portion of the heat sink.
https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u...lleries/703/msi-gx640-21-heatsink-closeup.jpg
an example of the copper piping and metal plate that will be used to transfer the heat, ideally placed over the existing heat sink
in any case the book binding design will be threaded through the spine into the custom case's hidden interior.
https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u...m/auctionpix/Band/Book_Safe_Small_Dis.jpg&f=1
to be something similar to this, but the size of a pretty big book (at least the dimensions of a notebook.) with the outer portion covered in a network of metal inlaid into the binding of the book, preferably copper. the business ends threaded through the spine to be attached to the heat sink like you see on many mobile laptop heat sinks.
The main question is how effective this idea is in terms of heat transfer, of adding the copper heat pipe to the opposite side of these heat sinks effectiveness, and any materials that may be coating this side of the heat sink that will be obstacles for efficient heat transfer.
https://cdn.globalauctionplatform.c...a1e2-a9cd-4e0c-edb6-5ed40cbe53fb/original.jpg
an example of the ""radiator"" portion of the heat sink.
https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u...lleries/703/msi-gx640-21-heatsink-closeup.jpg
an example of the copper piping and metal plate that will be used to transfer the heat, ideally placed over the existing heat sink
Wow, that sounds really impressive but I think you with struggle to get enough surface area to radiate/convection the heat. My two suggestions would be:
1 Start with a cheaper lower cost system like a lower powered nuc or even raspberry pi as a proof of concept.
2 if the aim of this design is for the aesthetics to look similar to filigree on that book you definitely won't have the surface area you will need to massively exaggerate the depth and amount to obtain that cooling capacity n even then might struggle to get effective convection currents in that orientation, if you look at other passive the cases the fins are arranged so air can flow in at the bottom travel the length of the fin and leave at the top. But if you still decide to experiment with the design an easier way to construct it would to use a copper or aluminium sheets as the top with contact made to the cpu via a copper or aluminium block/shim. The design could then be cast, aluminium would be easiest, and the side that will be in contact with the case top lapped/polished and thermally glues to the top to help increase mass/surface area to transfer heat.
Yes copper is more effective than aluminium and I've looked into using it myself in a DIY passive case for efficiency/aesthetics/bragging rights but copper heat sinks aren't available in those sizes as it can't be cheaply extruded like aluminium.
1 Start with a cheaper lower cost system like a lower powered nuc or even raspberry pi as a proof of concept.
2 if the aim of this design is for the aesthetics to look similar to filigree on that book you definitely won't have the surface area you will need to massively exaggerate the depth and amount to obtain that cooling capacity n even then might struggle to get effective convection currents in that orientation, if you look at other passive the cases the fins are arranged so air can flow in at the bottom travel the length of the fin and leave at the top. But if you still decide to experiment with the design an easier way to construct it would to use a copper or aluminium sheets as the top with contact made to the cpu via a copper or aluminium block/shim. The design could then be cast, aluminium would be easiest, and the side that will be in contact with the case top lapped/polished and thermally glues to the top to help increase mass/surface area to transfer heat.
Yes copper is more effective than aluminium and I've looked into using it myself in a DIY passive case for efficiency/aesthetics/bragging rights but copper heat sinks aren't available in those sizes as it can't be cheaply extruded like aluminium.
so what you're basically saying is i'd want to create a similar grilled style effect as seen in your video and then put the cover of the book over it?
perhaps it simply isn't possible to deal with a system that produces this much heat in that case. I have many of other proof in concept ideas I want to have, various book enclosures for thunderbolt drives and tablet pcs but currently my main PC, a laptop gaming rig, has about 4 main keys that do not work, so I've been looking into replacements for it since nobody is offering repair service for it as far as I know.
while I think its plausible to bury the heat sink in the first few pages of the book, it would excessively drive up the foot print of the book and it would no longer be portable, which is the main appeal to me. unless a copper heat sink would not need to be as big I don't see how the project could work. especially if the heat sink becomes burning to the touch. I may simply have to go with the original design choice that has ports for fan air flow. I'm not overly concerned about noise itself. it would just be simpler and ostentatious if I didn't need to add more ports
